i9 13900HX dying? (laptop)

[THEBOSS619]

@Ritzs Have you heard about doing voltage cap. through advanced BIOS? You might even try to unlock voltage control on those Intel HX CPUs,
I have seen successful reports from users on reddit that it allowed them to also unlock voltage control which allows undervolting & complete CPU control through ThrottleStop.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLaptops/comments/1ejvbkl
Looks like P-core 2 and 3 are clocked heavily and are the ones that mainly using it to boost the highest for single core threads. We need to find a way to avoid those P-core 2 and 3 cores. Try using CPU affinity from task manager to the game's.exe and exclude using P-core 2 and 3. If it works & the game not crashing... It's a faulty CPU & highly likely due to Intel Raptorlake fiasco.

 

[norbi3098]

cpu socket ?

 

[Ritzs]

@Ritzs Have you heard about doing voltage cap. through advanced BIOS? You might even try to unlock voltage control on those Intel HX CPUs,
I have seen successful reports from users on reddit that it allowed them to also unlock voltage control which allows undervolting & complete CPU control through ThrottleStop.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLaptops/comments/1ejvbkl
Looks like P-core 2 and 3 are clocked heavily and are the ones that mainly using it to boost the highest for single core threads. We need to find a way to avoid those P-core 2 and 3 cores. Try using CPU affinity from task manager to the game's.exe and exclude using P-core 2 and 3. If it works & the game not crashing... It's a faulty CPU & highly likely due to Intel Raptorlake fiasco.

Usually on Acer laptops you can hold fn+tab before turning it on to get into the advanced BIOS where these options are available. Acer has a line of 'helios neo' laptops where this is possible. Now the 'neo' line is the more budget-friendly counterpart of the normal helios laptops. But me and other users of the normal helios line of laptops can't seem to replicate this method. So my best guess is Acer somehow skipped or ignored this in the helios models...

I would test ram with memtest86+ and a bootable usb stick next as well as check SSD/HDD smart data for errors with crystaldiskinfo

Memtest passed. Doing crystaldiskinfo now.

 

[THEBOSS619]

Usually on Acer laptops you can hold fn+tab before turning it on to get into the advanced BIOS where these options are available. Acer has a line of 'helios neo' laptops where this is possible. Now the 'neo' line is the more budget-friendly counterpart of the normal helios laptops. But me and other users of the normal helios line of laptops can't seem to replicate this method. So my best guess is Acer somehow skipped or ignored this in the helios models...


View attachment 360077View attachment 360079

Memtest passed. Doing crystaldiskinfo now.

I see, expected from Acer because I bought it [Helios NEO 2023] version of it. They are decent and good... used it for 2 days, then returned it... nothing against it except the idea that Acer puts an HX CPU and then locking voltage control is absurd at the highest level.

If they used a non HX CPU, then I would understand since that's locked from Intel, but having an HX CPU you are already paying for HX privileges to have voltage control and other CPU Core adjustments. and then locked by Acer?? That's unacceptable tbh.

You can't do anything with XTU or Throttlestop since it's all locked down in BIOS with no option to unlock them. Unfortunately, the same exact problem applies for 2024 versions too.

Unless you don't care about those things then yeah Acer is really great.

By the way... have you made this method yet? we might find a culprit here...

Looks like P-core 2 and 3 are clocked heavily and are the ones that mainly using it to boost the highest for single core threads. We need to find a way to avoid those P-core 2 and 3 cores. Try using CPU affinity from task manager to the game's.exe and exclude using P-core 2 and 3. If it works & the game not crashing... It's a faulty CPU & highly likely due to Intel Raptorlake fiasco.

 

[Laurijan]

Memtest passed. Doing crystaldiskinfo now.

You can really rule out almost anything else than CPU and motherboard with these tests.

 

[Ritzs]

I see, expected from Acer because I bought it [Helios NEO 2023] version of it. They are decent and good... used it for 2 days, then returned it... nothing against it except the idea that Acer puts an HX CPU and then locking voltage control is absurd at the highest level.

If they used a non HX CPU, then I would understand since that's locked from Intel, but having an HX CPU you are already paying for HX privileges to have voltage control and other CPU Core adjustments. and then locked by Acer?? That's unacceptable tbh.

You can't do anything with XTU or Throttlestop since it's all locked down in BIOS with no option to unlock them. Unfortunately, the same exact problem applies for 2024 versions too.

Unless you don't care about those things then yeah Acer is really great.

By the way... have you made this method yet? we might find a culprit here...

Just tried setting affinity and this is what pops up.

You can really rule out almost anything else than CPU and motherboard with these tests.

I guess I'm quite F'd in this situation then.
I know for certain that Acer won't replace my motherboard for free. Intel is already trying to say that laptop chips don't have this problem when it certainly does.

But this thread has been the most helpful out of anywhere else I've posted. Thanks to everyone that put in the time and effort to try and find solutions, truly. You guys have been of tremendous help!

 

[THEBOSS619]

Just tried setting affinity and this is what pops up.

This happened while applying CPU affinity to a game's.exe on task manager? Maybe Apex legends are protected process for security reasons, can you try again with CyberPunk game? Since you mentioned that it crashes also too.

 

[forman313]

Tried "Run as administrator" or activate the built-in admin account and log on using that?

I would try to modify the boost behavior by editing the power plan. QuickCPU allows viewing and editing all of the different settings normally hidden. One of these are selecting how the performance is controlled, or rather what controls it. The CPU itself, based on hints from the OS or the OS controls it by specifying the exact performance level/boost/freq. It sounds like your CPU are calling the shots. Maybe Windows can do better.

This image suddenly popped up in my mind...

Some reading material:
PerfAutonomousMode | Microsoft Learn

 

[Ritzs]

This happened while applying CPU affinity to a game's.exe on task manager? Maybe Apex legends are protected process for security reasons, can you try again with CyberPunk game? Since you mentioned that it crashes also too.

I'll try this tonight

Tried "Run as administrator" or activate the built-in admin account and log on using that?

I would try to modify the boost behavior by editing the power plan. QuickCPU allows viewing and editing all of the different settings normally hidden. One of these are selecting how the performance is controlled, or rather what controls it. The CPU itself, based on hints from the OS or the OS controls it by specifying the exact performance level/boost/freq. It sounds like your CPU are calling the shots. Maybe Windows can do better.

This image suddenly popped up in my mind...
View attachment 360146

Some reading material:
PerfAutonomousMode | Microsoft Learn

Acer has basically locked anything that changes anything CPU related. I'll try this still and get back to this thread.

 

[Laurijan]

I guess I'm quite F'd in this situation then.
I know for certain that Acer won't replace my motherboard for free. Intel is already trying to say that laptop chips don't have this problem when it certainly does7

I am no expert on warranty in you country but i would call the customer rights bureu if you have been rejected even goodwill repair by manufacturer. A laptop should easily last 2-3 years and the Intel fiasco now could help you.

 

[THEBOSS619]

I am no expert on warranty in you country but i would call the customer rights bureu if you have been rejected even goodwill repair my manufacturer. A laptop should easily last 2-3 years

That's totally true, I mean.. I got an ASUS laptop with Intel i7 6700HQ since 2015.. still kicking life until now.. on 2024... let that sink in for a second

 

[iameatingjam]

I really cannot believe you paid for such a high end chip and you don't even have the option to downclock. This is absolutely ridiculous. Okay I can understand overclocking, but underclocking??? Why? Thats just really bothering me.

 

[Ritzs]

This happened while applying CPU affinity to a game's.exe on task manager? Maybe Apex legends are protected process for security reasons, can you try again with CyberPunk game? Since you mentioned that it crashes also too.

Cyberpunk refuses to run. Crashes right as I open it. Pretty sure the laptop is going goodbye. Did try the affinity thing with blender and it didn't seem to work with blender. I'm guessing my last option is asking if Acer can do anything about this.

I really cannot believe you paid for such a high end chip and you don't even have the option to downclock. This is absolutely ridiculous. Okay I can understand overclocking, but underclocking??? Why? Thats just really bothering me.

Yep. I thought I was getting a laptop for the next 5-ish years at least. Spent a lot of my savings on this just for it to give up barely a year later.

 

[iameatingjam]

Cyberpunk refuses to run. Crashes right as I open it. Pretty sure the laptop is going goodbye. Did try the affinity thing with blender and it didn't seem to work with blender. I'm guessing my last option is asking if Acer can do anything about this.


Yep. I thought I was getting a laptop for the next 5-ish years at least. Spent a lot of my savings on this just for it to give up barely a year later.

Can you disable hyperthreading in your bios? Or is there just no bios at all? I don't really get it.

I ask because there is an old way to select the number of active cores in windows. Unfortunately it only goes up to 8. Which I thought was perfect, because that would disable the ecores. But I tried it, and looks like it considered hyperthreads... cores. So I actually just turned my computer into a quad core.

However, if you were to disable hyperthreading... then maybe?

Disabling ecores is one way to stabilize affected cpus, works sometimes, doesn't others, but when my first 14700k was unstable, disabling ecores DID stabilize it.

There's also project lasso, but I think it just disables cores per process, which I don't think will be enough....
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@Ritzs

Okay nevermind that I was just being stupid and was looking at the menu after disabling the cores

go to msconfig>boot>advanced options

Select number of processors, and select 16.

Then go Okay and then apply and restart.

Can confirm works for disabling ecores, on this system anyway.

 

[Ritzs]

I can disable e-cores in the BIOS. I'll try doing that and get back to you. Hopefully Acer replaces or repairs this without much hassle.

Can you disable hyperthreading in your bios? Or is there just no bios at all? I don't really get it.

I ask because there is an old way to select the number of active cores in windows. Unfortunately it only goes up to 8. Which I thought was perfect, because that would disable the ecores. But I tried it, and looks like it considered hyperthreads... cores. So I actually just turned my computer into a quad core.

However, if you were to disable hyperthreading... then maybe?

Disabling ecores is one way to stabilize affected cpus, works sometimes, doesn't others, but when my first 14700k was unstable, disabling ecores DID stabilize it.

There's also project lasso, but I think it just disables cores per process, which I don't think will be enough....
----------------

@Ritzs

Okay nevermind that I was just being stupid and was looking at the menu after disabling the cores

go to msconfig>boot>advanced options

Select number of processors, and select 16.

Then go Okay and then apply and restart.

Can confirm works for disabling ecores, on this system anyway.

 

[tekjunkie28]

So this is a laptop cpu. I have yet to find a single laptop that is truely affected by this "voltage" issue. The voltage issue comes from eTVB and ITB3.0 algorithms of voltages calls from the microcode. There are also issues with certain parameters not being met or thought to be met which allow the cpu to operate outside of its safe window. The reason it seems know one knows what going on is because as outsiders we can not simply see the programing or measurements that go on inside the cpu.

OP you could have hundreds of different issues going on. The fact that this is an acer already raises some flags as to the quality of the solder and board materials used. Have you reinstalled windows? I would start there. Another easy test (try this one first) of the cpu is to go to steam and download the Black Myth benchmark and run it. If you have issues related to the cpu it will show up there. Please let me know if you can do this and what your results are.

 

[Ritzs]

So this is a laptop cpu. I have yet to find a single laptop that is truely affected by this "voltage" issue. The voltage issue comes from eTVB and ITB3.0 algorithms of voltages calls from the microcode. There are also issues with certain parameters not being met or thought to be met which allow the cpu to operate outside of its safe window. The reason it seems know one knows what going on is because as outsiders we can not simply see the programing or measurements that go on inside the cpu.

OP you could have hundreds of different issues going on. The fact that this is an acer already raises some flags as to the quality of the solder and board materials used. Have you reinstalled windows? I would start there. Another easy test (try this one first) of the cpu is to go to steam and download the Black Myth benchmark and run it. If you have issues related to the cpu it will show up there. Please let me know if you can do this and what your results are.

Link to HWinfo log

I've backed up my data. I'll go through a full reset tonight.

These are the two main issues that the laptop has right now. The crash mentioned was Cyberpunk2077.

Cyberpunk crash HWinfo log

 

[iameatingjam]

I can disable e-cores in the BIOS. I'll try doing that and get back to you. Hopefully Acer replaces or repairs this without much hassle.

Oh good so you're still under warranty? Thats a relief.

This probably isn't what you want to hear but my only acer rma experience was... pretty bad. It was for a monitor, it had really bad light bleed in one corner. I sent it back 4 times and every time it came back either the same or worse than before. Eventually after months of back and forth. I went back to the shop I bought it from and begged them to take to back. Even though my return period had expired several times over. They did, thankfully. No thanks to acer though.

On the bright side this was over 10 years ago so its very possible their processes have improved since then? Also its not like they can fix a broken cpu... they're gonna have to replace it. Though it could be 'refurbished' aka someone else's rma lol, no wait that was Asus.

Well anyway, best of luck.

 

[Ritzs]

Oh good so you're still under warranty? Thats a relief.

This probably isn't what you want to hear but my only acer rma experience was... pretty bad. It was for a monitor, it had really bad light bleed in one corner. I sent it back 4 times and every time it came back either the same or worse than before. Eventually after months of back and forth. I went back to the shop I bought it from and begged them to take to back. Even though my return period had expired several times over. They did, thankfully. No thanks to acer though.

On the bright side this was over 10 years ago so its very possible their processes have improved since then? Also its not like they can fix a broken cpu... they're gonna have to replace it. Though it could be 'refurbished' aka someone else's rma lol, no wait that was Asus.

Well anyway, best of luck.

I'm not under warranty. That's why I'm hoping Acer will help me out here. RMA for devices under warranty has become easy these days with Acer or so I've heard.

I've also heard horror stories of acer simply not caring about anything that has to do with out of warranty devices. So I'm hoping if I can make them see that the device has manufacturer faults then I can get some actual help.

I guess my last hope is Acer not being... Well Acer.

 

[Laurijan]

I'm not under warranty. That's why I'm hoping Acer will help me out here. RMA for devices under warranty has become easy these days with Acer or so I've heard.

I've also heard horror stories of acer simply not caring about anything that has to do with out of warranty devices. So I'm hoping if I can make them see that the device has manufacturer faults then I can get some actual help.

I guess my last hope is Acer not being... Well Acer.

If our company gets a email from the manufacturer to repair a device in warranty even though its out warranty it means the customer got hold of a person in voice of customer team and talked them over. VOC - and goodwill repair. I know of cases where they complained to a area manager too

 

[tekjunkie28]

At this point and after I did a little bit of research your CPU is NOT having the problems associated with degradation. There is some other issue going on. Thought it may be cpu related it has nothing to do with degradation everyone is talking about. Run the Black Myth benchmark 10 times. If you dont get a videocard out of memory error (as long as your card really isnt out of memory) then you know that is not the issue. Reset everything back to what you were running reset windows. Before you do that though have you tried the sfc / scannow? Look it up because there is a command you run before that in Cmd prompt to fully update the files before running sfc / scannow

 

[iameatingjam]

At this point and after I did a little bit of research your CPU is NOT having the problems associated with degradation. There is some other issue going on. Thought it may be cpu related it has nothing to do with degradation everyone is talking about. Run the Black Myth benchmark 10 times. If you dont get a videocard out of memory error (as long as your card really isnt out of memory) then you know that is not the issue. Reset everything back to what you were running reset windows. Before you do that though have you tried the sfc / scannow? Look it up because there is a command you run before that in Cmd prompt to fully update the files before running sfc / scannow

Okay you're right we don't know its degradation but I feel like I should mention... this degradation can manifest in many different ways. The out of video memory errors were just one of the of the first indications connected with it. When my cpu died, there was no out of video memory error. It just blue screened every 5 minutes unless ecores were turned off. And if replacing the cpu fixed the problem, idk what else it could have been other than the cpu. And yes I did reseat the original one and clear cmos and check memory and a laundry list of other diagnostic tests because this was in late 2023 back when I believed cpus failing was extremely rare.

So this is a laptop cpu. I have yet to find a single laptop that is truely affected by this "voltage" issue. The voltage issue comes from eTVB and ITB3.0 algorithms of voltages calls from the microcode. There are also issues with certain parameters not being met or thought to be met which allow the cpu to operate outside of its safe window. The reason it seems know one knows what going on is because as outsiders we can not simply see the programing or measurements that go on inside the cpu.

OP you could have hundreds of different issues going on. The fact that this is an acer already raises some flags as to the quality of the solder and board materials used. Have you reinstalled windows? I would start there. Another easy test (try this one first) of the cpu is to go to steam and download the Black Myth benchmark and run it. If you have issues related to the cpu it will show up there. Please let me know if you can do this and what your results are.

Isn't tvb only an i9 thing or something? All I know is I don't have it with my i7, and i7s are certainly not immune to this problem. We even know of cases where 13600ks are breaking down. I don't think anybody really gets the full picture here except perhaps some intel engineers. So I don't know how we could make absolute statements like 'your CPU is NOT having the problems associated with degradation'

Again not saying it definitely is, but I don't see how we can rule it out yet either. I think intel said they were working on a tool for that.

Edit: I actually believe one of those manifestations is a corrupted OS, so even if sfc / scannow did fix the problem, the question is still open, to me it seems.

 

[Ritzs]

I reset my laptop. Ran SFC scan AFTER I reset the PC just for good measure. No issues were found.

The only apps I have on my PC right now are: Fusion 360, blender, figma, steam and apex legends.

Ran apex legends the first time. Opened Apex, changed graphics settings to low, went to change mouse sensitivity, immediately crashed with DXGI_DEVICE_HUNG.

Launched Apex again, logging this time with HWinfo, played one match, nothing. Started a new match, 5 mins into the match it crashes. But this time the monitor display goes black a couple seconds after the same DXGI_DEVICE_HUNG error appears. The laptop display starts "blinking". Basically the display comes on for less than a second and then goes back to black again. This happens a couple times. Pressing ctrl+shift+B does nothing. I force shut it down, starts up no issues running fine now.

HWinfo log

I'm slowly descending into 'lose my mind' territory.

 

[iameatingjam]

Disabling ecores didn't help?

 

[pressing on]

I'm slowly descending into 'lose my mind' territory.

Do any of the suggestions on this page How to Fix the 0x887A0006: DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_HUNG Error in Windows 10 & 11 help? Your CPU has an iGPU and I wonder if there is an iGPU/graphics card chipset issue going on.