i9-14900k Cooling With AIO?

[FreedomEclipse]

Short story long.... Word got around that I used to do system builds a long long time ago and my name has been put forward and recommended by somebody I did a lot of work for way before the pandemic hit. (some i5 machine with a ATi 6850 or 70...)

Last build I done right near the end of the pandemic when a basic RTX3060 was almost £800 and that was for a friend whose computer blew up and was desperate enough to pay for said 3060.

Fast forward to a few days ago I was contacted by a guy who got my name and contact details from somebody I did a fair bit of work for. While Im happy I have been recommended. This guy went straight in and asked for a proper go big or go home build.... He wants an i9-14900k and wont take no for an answer. He's hellbent on dropping a massive wad of cash on a super computer even though I have advised him its probably 10 or 20x the computer that he needs.

But he's the one paying for it, so what he asks for, he gets - should I accept the job.

Now, I have NEVER done a super high tier build before and I worry that a 420mm AIO wont be enough to tame the i9 he's asking for. This will be his PC for doing a lot of radio work as he's an internet radio streamer so if i do accept the job. Whatever ends up in his hands has to be perfect or it reflects really badly on me if he keeps running into issues.

I really want to build the machine for him but just thinking about it is giving me anxiety. I know the i9-14900k is one hot boi.


Will the Artic Liquid Freezer III 420 be able to cope?


Ive told him i'll have a look into the parts/pricing and get back to him so I have a bit of time to think it over.


::EDIT::


Also - everything is going to be stock. Its not my machine so im not even going to tweak or tune it.

 

[Onasi]

It will be fine. Just make sure that the BIOS CPU power settings are set to baseline spec and not whatever no-limits/MCE nonsense the mo-bo vendor will set by default. Hell, with a 420 AIO even said nonsense should be fine. From what you’ve said about his usage, it’s unlikely he will ever push the CPU to its absolute limit, which is where the insane power draw and temps actually come from. The 14900K at its ACTUAL stock spec isn’t as ridiculous as the memes would have you believe.

 

[Vya Domus]

It'll be fine.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

It will be fine. Just make sure that the BIOS CPU power settings are set to baseline spec and not whatever no-limits/MCE nonsense the mo-bo vendor will set by default. Hell, with a 420 AIO even said nonsense should be fine. From what you’ve said about his usage, it’s unlikely he will ever push the CPU to its absolute limit, which is where the insane power draw and temps actually come from. The 14900K at its ACTUAL stock spec isn’t as ridiculous as the memes would have you believe.

Believe it or not, he plays football manager in his off-time and his 10th gen i7-10700K isnt cutting the mustard for that game. But FM is single threaded and he wants FM to load up a little more faster. I told him hes dropping a huge amount of money for a performance bump thats probably not going to be huge by any means since FM is single threaded.... but he accepts that and wants the i9.

I said why not have his machine RTB'd to me and I'll do like an Italian tune up for a fraction of the amount he's going to drop on an i9 build but no, he wants the i9.

 

[Dr. Dro]

You'll be fine, just limit it to around 300 W. Which is what you should realistically run unless you're investing on full custom.

I run my 13900KS on the NH-D15S and used a 360mm AIO from id-cooling before. Don't worry about it.

 

[Solaris17]

Short story long.... Word got around that I used to do system builds a long long time ago and my name has been put forward and recommended by somebody I did a lot of work for way before the pandemic hit. (some i5 machine with a ATi 6850 or 70...)

Last build I done right near the end of the pandemic when a basic RTX3060 was almost £800 and that was for a friend whose computer blew up and was desperate enough to pay for said 3060.

Fast forward to a few days ago I was contacted by a guy who got my name and contact details from somebody I did a fair bit of work for. While Im happy I have been recommended. This guy went straight in and asked for a proper go big or go home build.... He wants an i9-14900k and wont take no for an answer. He's hellbent on dropping a massive wad of cash on a super computer even though I have advised him its probably 10 or 20x the computer that he needs.

But he's the one paying for it, so what he asks for, he gets - should I accept the job.

Now, I have NEVER done a super high tier build before and I worry that a 420mm AIO wont be enough to tame the i9 he's asking for. This will be his PC for doing a lot of radio work as he's an internet radio streamer so if i do accept the job. Whatever ends up in his hands has to be perfect or it reflects really badly on me if he keeps running into issues.

I really want to build the machine for him but just thinking about it is giving me anxiety. I know the i9-14900k is one hot boi.


Will the Artic Liquid Freezer III 420 be able to cope?


Ive told him i'll have a look into the parts/pricing and get back to him so I have a bit of time to think it over.


::EDIT::


Also - everything is going to be stock. Its not my machine so im not even going to tweak or tune it.

I downgraded during a case move from a 360 to a 240 be quiet on a 14900ks if you are leaving it stock it’s fine

 

[dgianstefani]

Believe it or not, he plays football manager in his off-time and his 10th gen i7-10700K isnt cutting the mustard for that game. But FM is single threaded and he wants FM to load up a little more faster. I told him hes dropping a huge amount of money for a performance bump thats probably not going to be huge by any means since FM is single threaded.... but he accepts that and wants the i9.

I said why not have his machine RTB'd to me and I'll do like an Italian tune up for a fraction of the amount he's going to drop on an i9 build but no, he wants the i9.

Raptor Lake ST @6 GHz is significantly faster than Comet lake or even Zen 4.

The i9 also has extra cache over the i7 so it's still a faster chip even in ST.

My advice, pair with 7200 MT+ memory for peak performance. These charts are with 6000/36 memory, which is pretty midrange.

The 5800X3D is pretty comparable to a 10900K in ST, about 5% faster in CB.

So 10th gen to 14th gen is almost twice as fast in ST.

1358 10700K to 1496 5800X3D.

2339 14900K.

1496 5800X3D is from launch review, later BIOS seems to have reduced this to 1476 but this is margin of error stuff.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Raptor Lake ST @6 GHz is significantly faster than Comet lake or even Zen 4.

The i9 also has extra cache over the i7 so it's still a faster chip even in ST.

My advice, pair with 7200 MT+ memory for peak performance. These charts are with 6000/36 memory, which is pretty midrange.

View attachment 349736

The 5800X3D is pretty comparable to a 10900K in ST, about 5% faster in CB.

So 10th gen to 14th gen is almost twice as fast in ST.

1358 10700K to 1496 5800X3D.

2339 14900K.

1496 5800X3D is from launch review, later BIOS seems to have reduced this to 1476 but this is margin of error stuff.

Pardon me but what is ST?

I tried to recommend him some AMD options but he wants the i9. The best luck ive had convincing him of anything is to take a 7900GRE instead of an overpriced 4070Ti/Super. So he's already made an concession for his build


Thank you everyone. A great weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

::EDIT::

Also while we are on the topic of fast RAM. he wants 96-128GB of it. So that might cause issue if i wanted a 2x48GB kit.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Pardon me but what is ST?

I tried to recommend him some AMD options but he wants the i9. The best luck ive had convincing him of anything is to take a 7900GRE instead of an overpriced 4070Ti/Super. So he's already made an concession for his build


Thank you everyone. A great weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

::EDIT::

Also while we are on the topic of fast RAM. he wants 96-128GB of it. So that might cause issue if i wanted a 2x48GB kit.

96+ GB kits aren't going to be fast, and the more you add, harder it'll be to stabilize. 32 to 48 GB is the sweet spot for capacity x speed.

Either way, I highly suggest a validated DDR5 kit if you're going high-capacity. Something like a DDR5-5600 kit.

 

[dgianstefani]

Pardon me but what is ST?

I tried to recommend him some AMD options but he wants the i9. The best luck ive had convincing him of anything is to take a 7900GRE instead of an overpriced 4070Ti/Super. So he's already made an concession for his build


Thank you everyone. A great weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

::EDIT::

Also while we are on the topic of fast RAM. he wants 96-128GB of it. So that might cause issue if i wanted a 2x48GB kit.

A 4070 Ti Super is better (faster, more efficient and with superior features) than a 7900GRE, so I'm not sure how that's good advice.

ST is single thread.

96/128 GB of memory is completely pointless for gaming and a waste of money. You need to communicate to him that 64 GB of fast RAM is much better than 128 GB of slow RAM for 80%+ of workloads, and 99%+ of games.

Two DIMMs.

4070 Ti Super or 4080 S.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

96+ GB kits aren't going to be fast, and the more you add, harder it'll be to stabilize. 32 to 48 GB is the sweet spot for capacity x speed.

Either way, I highly suggest a validated DDR5 kit if you're going high-capacity. Something like a DDR5-5600 kit.

Then 7200MT kits are off the table in that case.

A 4070 Ti Super is better (faster, more efficient and with superior features) than a 7900GRE, so I'm not sure how that's good advice.

ST is single thread.

96/128 GB of memory is completely pointless for gaming and a waste of money. You need to communicate to him that 64 GB of fast RAM is much better than 128 GB of slow RAM for 80%+ of workloads, and 99%+ of games.

Two DIMMs.

4070 Ti Super or 4080 S.

4070Ti Supers and 4080s cost a lot lot more than 7900GRE's here but sure I'll reconsider. Thats like one 3rd of the budget just spent on a GPU if the 4070Ti Super was picked.

Also youre missing the point that this PC isnt necessarily a dedicated gaming machine. He uses it to occasionally encode audio to higher bit-rates and stream radio. He's like an amature DJ.

 

[Outback Bronze]

Pardon me but what is ST?

Single Thread

I think you will have no problems at all especially if you limit it to 150w in the bios. You can test 200w+ and see how that goes if you want more performance.

What board you guys thinking about going with?

The Apex Encore would be the better board for higher memory speeds but @ir_cow would best to ask for what board would be best for lots of memory and at what speed you guys want to run.

Good luck with the build

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

Whatever ends up in his hands has to be perfect or it reflects really badly on me if he keeps running into issues.

Then 7200MT kits are off the table



4070Ti Supers and 4080s cost a lot lot more than 7900GRE's here but sure I'll reconsider

If he wants the 4070Ti-S, I wouldn't try to get him to buy something else. If he's unhappy with the 4070, it's his choice. If he's unhappy with the GRE, it's your fault.

For what it's worth, I traded my XTX in for a 4070Ti-S. Absolutely the right choice for me after doing so.

As far as the cooling, as everyone else said, a good AIO or a good air cooler will do fine as long as you keep it at, or under the standard 253w PL1=PL2

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Single Thread

I think you will have no problems at all especially if you limit it to 150w in the bios. You can test 200w+ and see how that goes if you want more performance.

What board you guys thinking about going with?

The Apex Encore would be the better board for higher memory speeds but @ir_cow would best to ask for what board would be best for lots of memory and at what speed you guys want to run.

Good luck with the build

Im not sure that Apex would be worth looking at. Its too expensive. £630 here...

No idea what board yet. But whatever it is will be around half the price of the apex.

If he wants the 4070Ti-S, I wouldn't try to get him to buy something else. If he's unhappy with the 4070, it's his choice. If he's unhappy with the GRE, it's your fault.

For what it's worth, I traded my XTX in for a 4070Ti-S. Absolutely the right choice for me after doing so.

As far as the cooling, as everyone else said, a good AIO or a good air cooler will do fine as long as you keep it at, or under the standard 253w PL1=PL2

At the same time im trying to balance his budget. He wasnt happy paying £800 for a GPU either and a 7900GRE is faster than a regular 4070. In TPUs 7900GRE reviews the card isnt far off a 4070Ti so its an area where i can save some of the budget for something else.


::EDIT::

He said he was a fan of Asus ROG boards so maybe i'll kit him up with an ASUS ROG Strix Z790-F

 

[Solaris17]

96+ GB kits aren't going to be fast, and the more you add, harder it'll be to stabilize. 32 to 48 GB is the sweet spot for capacity x speed.

It was a bear to stabilize just XMP on my 64gb kit. On my other motherboard I could get maybe 200 over XMP if I tried hard. These IMCs on 13-14gen are at there limit. I would be careful.

 

[Onasi]

Also youre missing the point that this PC isnt necessarily a dedicated gaming machine. He uses it to occasionally encode audio to higher bit-rates and stream radio. He's like an amature DJ

Neither workload is THAT memory intensive that 96 or 128 gigs would be particularly helpful. I’ll echo what everyone above said that going for 32/48 or, in the very, very unnecessary case, at most 64 gigs would be the optimal choice. Having loads of relatively slow RAM isn’t particularly helpful in a consumer PC with the most “non-consumer” workload being audio encoding. We aren't talking CAD, CFD or Matlab simulation here.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Neither workload is THAT memory intensive that 96 or 128 gigs would be particularly helpful. I’ll echo what everyone above said that going for 32/48 or, at the very, very unnecessary case, 64 gigs would be the optimal choice. Having loads of relatively slow RAM isn’t particularly helpful in a consumer PC with the most “non-consumer” workload being audio encoding. We aren't talking CAD, CFD or Matlab simulation here.

Thats exactly what I said but he still wants it. I will try to negotiate with him again.

 

[Onasi]

Thats exactly what I said but he still wants it. I will try to negotiate with him again.

Not to be a dick about it, but do remind him that asking for your help is pointless if he is just going to countermand you at every turn when you try to help him build a balanced system that is actually suited to his needs rather than (seemingly) uninformed wants. That’s something that I pulled several times previously in similar situations.

 

[pressing on]

Thats exactly what I said but he still wants it. I will try to negotiate with him again.

There are a number of companies in the UK that will build a motherboard, CPU, memory combo to your specification. Scan Computers of Bolton is one, see this web page. You might be better off going this route and just integrating one of Scan's pre-built and tested bundles with his choice of components into a working system for him.

 

[dgianstefani]

For a fast two DIMM motherboard just buy a ITX or mATX board. High end model is around £300. Apex etc is nice if money doesn't matter but that's not the case.

Audio production/mixing does not need 128 GB of RAM. There's literally people doing it with Macs using 8 GB of RAM.

48/64 can be stable on 7200 MT. It's 4 DIMM slot boards that have issues with fast memory. Raptor Lake memory controller is excellent and can push 32 GB at 8000+ on a decent two DIMM board. 7200 kit is very reasonable, almost guarantees A die, and if you can't do 7200 with 48/64 GB, 66/6800 MT will likely work with one setting change besides XMP.

 

[ir_cow]

Apex is only as good as the time your willing to invest into overclocking memory, otherwise it will perform about the same as any 4-slot motherboard if you are targeting 7200. However with dual-rank (64/96) it is unlikely to reach above 6800 do the Intel memory controller for 13/14th Gen. I would aim at 6400 to be on the safer side. That is unless you like to spend your days troubleshooting memory problems.

I would personally recommend 48GB (2x24) over 64 or 96GB because it is cheaper and you can go higher in frequency if that is the goal here.

 

[Solaris17]

I would aim at 6400 to be on the safer side. That is unless you like to spend your days troubleshooting memory problems.

This is where I landed for my 64gb kit. my 13900k/ks and 14900ks just wouldnt do more. Thats between a z690 dark and whatever TF this itx board is now.

Thanks for chiming in.

 

[Dr. Dro]

This is where I landed for my 64gb kit. my 13900k/ks and 14900ks just wouldnt do more. Thats between a z690 dark and whatever TF this itx board is now.

Thanks for chiming in.

No good, that MPG Edge ITX is supposed to be one of the best memory clocking boards, guess I should just be satisfied with my 6400 C30 setup... hehe

 

[ir_cow]

From what I've seen on XOC forums is that MSI Z790 ITX can reach 8400 for single rank. So the limitation here still is the Intel controller.

I spent the last few days seeing truly how high I can go with single rank. Looks like 8400 is it for me. Cannot pass y-cruncher no matter the CPUs voltages for 2 DIMMs above this. DDR5-9000 does get me into windows though if we are going by what boots and not what's stable. Just have to wait for the next Intel socket

 

[InVasMani]

It would be fun to see what a binned single IC in SR dual channel DDR5 kit would behave like.