If top blowing coolers are so good, why they are so uncommon?

[lexluthermiester]

No offense, but good Engineering accounts for the klutz (the klutz being me in this case)

Fair enough..

 

[Operandi]

I see where the logic is here, but I highly doubt that AMD didn't know that. They are designing chips, testing prototypes and doing a lot of work. For such a massive deviation to slip up is near impossible. AMD also revised original Bulldozer with Piledriver architecture and if that mattered to them, they could have reduced power usage. Later there was Carrizo, which was shockingly low power bulldozer derivative, but it was launched right near Ryzen launch, but it shows that AMD could do that to bulldozer or piledriver. But for some reason didn't. Previously AMD had poor Phenom launch, which couldn't clock high enough, but they didn't push power usage for that, instead they waited for better bins. Maybe they didn't want that to happen with FX?

Yeah I'm sure they knew but PR did what PR does and spun it. Either way they were committed to and had to ride it out till they could get something new out the door which ended up being Zen of course. From what I remember Phenom II was pretty much maxing out the architecture as it existed then, die shrinking it alone wouldn't be enough to scale performance, it needed major rework to go any faster. If AMD had more engineering resources they probably could have started another team on reworking Phenom arch into something that would scale better (kinda like what Intel did in the P4 eara).

Piledriver was the 2nd and last big iteration of Bulldozer, it would have been interesting to see how big version of later iterations would have done cause I think there was like 2 more that went into APUs but I'm sure they did the math and figured it would be a losing proposition to engineer and build those chips considering how big they were and their node disadvantage relative to the performance they'd be able to achieve.

Prime95 excluding possible losses by guessing and approximating. Reviewers had equipment to measure that more directly.

Was anybody doing EPS power draw measurements then? I looked back quick and didn't see anything.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Depends. Due to PL2 it will use more watts for like 58 seconds for short bursty loads and will likely boost to maximum frequency, but once Tau is expired (PL2 allowance period) it will consume no more than PL1 stated watts, which is 95. Due to workloads consisting of various difficulty and their execution time, CPU might be switching between PL2 and PL1 a lot. Also motherboard vendors are seemingly obsessed to raising PLs way above Intel recommended values and and thus some people will see that their i9 always consumes a ton of power and is hard to cool. There are also PL3 and PL4 specs, but those are power limits for fractions of second and generally aren't accessible, modifiable or disclosed in BIOS or in monitoring tools. They also aren't publicly know either.

This power logic has been in Intel processors since Haswell era and maybe since Sandy Bridge, I don't know precisely, but it is quite mature.


Prime95 excluding possible losses by guessing and approximating. Reviewers had equipment to measure that more directly.


I see where the logic is here, but I highly doubt that AMD didn't know that. They are designing chips, testing prototypes and doing a lot of work. For such a massive deviation to slip up is near impossible. AMD also revised original Bulldozer with Piledriver architecture and if that mattered to them, they could have reduced power usage. Later there was Carrizo, which was shockingly low power bulldozer derivative, but it was launched right near Ryzen launch, but it shows that AMD could do that to bulldozer or piledriver. But for some reason didn't. Previously AMD had poor Phenom launch, which couldn't clock high enough, but they didn't push power usage for that, instead they waited for better bins. Maybe they didn't want that to happen with FX?

Wasn't this about downdraft heatsinks?!

And based on a incorrect statement no less, since most OEM pcs, ie the majority sold, use said cooler's.

 

[The red spirit]

And based on a incorrect statement no less, since most OEM pcs, ie the majority sold, use said cooler's.

Well, that's kind of obvious, but I haven't seen much talk about them in any enthusiast forum, as if their advantages don't mean anything and downdraft coolers are in assembled PCs, just due to them being really cheap

 

[freeagent]

Anyone remember the TT Big Typhoon? I do.. It was a little better than the Thermalright I was using before it lol.. the truth hurts sometimes

 

[The red spirit]

Yeah I'm sure they knew but PR did what PR does and spun it. Either way they were committed to and had to ride it out till they could get something new out the door which ended up being Zen of course. From what I remember Phenom II was pretty much maxing out the architecture as it existed then, die shrinking it alone wouldn't be enough to scale performance, it needed major rework to go any faster. If AMD had more engineering resources they probably could have started another team on reworking Phenom arch into something that would scale better (kinda like what Intel did in the P4 eara).

Except Intel reengineered already good architecture (Pentium III) into something great (Core 2 series), AMD tried the same with K8, but it turned into Phenom I and Phenom II. And since Phenom I had poor yield, there is nothing that AMD could have done to alleviate that problem. Basically culmination of K10 was Phenom II (K10.5), finally with good yields and improved architecture. Zen was basically Piledriver with other revisions like Steamroller and Excavator integrated and further improved. And at first Zen 1 was mostly the same load of bollocks as Piledriver was, but it was decent with power consumption and had small gap of IPC compared to Intel and Zen 1 chips were cheap. AMD just simply didn't have a decent architecture laying around, Intel did, therefor they took different steps to approach same result.

Piledriver was the 2nd and last big iteration of Bulldozer, it would have been interesting to see how big version of later iterations would have done cause I think there was like 2 more that went into APUs but I'm sure they did the math and figured it would be a losing proposition to engineer and build those chips considering how big they were and their node disadvantage relative to the performance they'd be able to achieve.

Well, Excavator was pretty interesting, that's for sure. But as I said Zen 1 is basically Excavator heavily reengineered.

Anyone remember the TT Big Typhoon? I do.. It was a little better than the Thermalright I was using before it lol.. the truth hurts sometimes

Thermaltake Big Typhoon Review

Thermaltake has been around for only seven years, but every one of them has been spent turning the heads of the hardware community. From the original Golden Orb's effective cooling at near silent levels to the current array of water and air coolers, Thermaltake continues to impress with both...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[lexluthermiester]

Anyone remember the TT Big Typhoon? I do.. It was a little better than the Thermalright I was using before it lol.. the truth hurts sometimes

I have it's grandson cooling my Xeon E5-2667v2...

Thermaltake Germany

nordic.thermaltake.com

OverclockersClub did a good review of it;

Thermaltake BigTyp Revo CPU Cooler Review

I'm using a much better fan than the one it came with so it's performance in my system is much improved over what is shown in that review.

But as I said Zen 1 is basically Excavator heavily reengineered.

Um, no it's not. Zen was built almost from the ground up. This is why it took so long for AMD to get a new CPU line to market.

 

[The red spirit]

Um, no it's not. Zen was built almost from the ground up. This is why it took so long for AMD to get a new CPU line to market.

For something that is "new" it sure does share a lot with Piledriver and Excavator. It just reeks of FX everywhere.

 

[lexluthermiester]

For something that is "new" it sure does share a lot with Piledriver and Excavator. It just reeks of FX everywhere.

And I'm betting you are nearly or completely alone in that perspective.

But such is way off-topic so let's rope ourselves in, eh?

 

[Tatty_Two]

And I'm betting you are nearly or completely alone in that perspective.

But such is way off-topic so let's rope ourselves in, eh?

That's a damn good idea right there.

 

[QuietBob]

Anyone remember the TT Big Typhoon?

Sure, and I still have it. It used to cool my XP-M@2.5 and performed really well for the time. It had no problems with an oc'd Athlon II X2 either, and only gave in to the Phenom II X4 because of its very low thermal ceiling.



IIRC it was one of the first "big" coolers, together with the Scythe Ninja.

 

[The red spirit]

IIRC it was one of the first "big" coolers, together with the Scythe Ninja.

Depending on Ninja version, Cu version not only was big, but also very heavy. Heatsink alone was 1.015 kg heavy. With stock fan it was weighting at 1.13 kg. TT Big Typhoon with fan (heatsink specs aren't provided separately) weights just 0.813 kg. Just for reference, current Ninja 5 with fans weights 1.19 kg. Slightly heavier than Ninja Cu, but a lot bigger and with two fans. CM 212 Evo weights (0.465 kg + 0.104 kg) just 0.569 kg.