Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" Desktop Processors Launched: +15% ST, +41% MT Uplift

[Deleted member 223428]

true. I had asked in another thread if all motherboards support disabling e-cores and no one answered me, so I wasn't confident this was possible except with high end motherboards.

I guess it is common though so I don't need to worry about that.

I might do this.

Wiz answered you. The answer was yes, and that you'd lose performance by doing so.

As for your list of requested games, and if they were negatively affected by e-cores, here's a screenshot of task manager running Dragon Age: Origins. 1440p, Max quality, 120fps lock. E-cores are doing what they're supposed to do.

 

[P4-630]

Here running GTA V

 

[mahoney]

The probable reason why Intel decided to NOT put a standard bar for 5800X3D in it's slides, but "hide" the X3D's results in a small red line.

Find it hilarious how intel included the 3d chip while AMD didn't even bother with it for their Zen 4 presentation.

 

[mplayerMuPDF]

i5-13600k is looking sooo good. People hate on the E-cores but don't forget that you are basically getting TWO old i5s (supposedly Skylake but let's say for the sake of the argument that they are Broadwell or Haswell equivalent instead) for free with your new hexacore i5 (think of it as a Ryzen 5). For productivity tasks this is just amazing. When I finally get to buy one of these (probably many years later second hand), I will be super excited to do some reencoding and compiling on this thing. Furthermore, DDR4 is STILL supported, so I could reuse my "old" 2x8 GB DDR4-3200 and save some money on that.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

Guys, I can tell you that THIS ISSUE has not affected ME specifically and as we all know anecdotes are fact so there is NO ISSUE so stop complaining!

Can you please share what you've experienced? I asked above for specific problems and got 'blah blah blah, cpu design, old software somethingsomethingsomething'.

I never claimed there wasn't a problem. I said that in almost a year I haven't run into anything. Please share what was broken for you with E-cores. I'd like to attempt to duplicate it.

 

[tussinman]

Well what are the problems with e-cores at the moment and will it affect me in gaming?

From my understanding it's mostly really old games. From everything i've heard/read 2 common complaints is 1. the e-cores simply won't be utilized (which isn't technically a good or bad thing it just means you won't get any extra benefit) or 2. on some ancient games I've heard complaints of the e-cores running the game instead of the P cores (which I don't think technically matters to be honest, a game that's 10+ years old should be a joke to run anyways).

 

[KarymidoN]

AMD just lost all their leverage and advantage with ZEN4/AM5.
Platform cost = Intel (supports z690/z790 boards and DDR4/DDR5 RAM)
Temps and Price/Performance = ZEN4 struggled to beat 12th GEN in some cases, 13th gen gonna wipe the floor with ZEN4.
Boy they gonna have to rush ZEN4+ or ZEN5 ASAP cause its not looking good.

 

[P4-630]

(which I don't think technically matters to be honest, a game that's 10+ years old should be a joke to run anyways).

Just remember already 8 year old GTA V.

 

[AnotherReader]

Raptor Lake looks like it'll retake the gaming crown, but Zen 4 will provide stiff competition. We should all be glad that Intel and AMD are keeping each other on their toes. Note that Intel uses specint for measuring the single threaded and multithreaded speedup over Alder Lake. AnandTech ran specint in their review as is their wont. The 7950X was 15% faster than the 12900k in the single threaded test and 41% faster in the multithreaded test. So it seems that Raptor Lake will match or surpass Zen 4 in almost all applications.

SpecInt Rate (from Anandtech): multithreaded test

Test	7950X	12900k	Increase over 12900K
500.perlbench_r	134.6​	103.82​	29.6%​
502.gcc_r	89.6​	79.13​	13.2%​
505.mcf_r	55.8​	52.1​	7.1%​
520.omentpp_r	43.8​	39.05​	12.2%​
523.xalancbmk_r	99.9​	63.94​	56.2%​
525.x264_r	273.8​	176.02​	55.6%​
531.deepsjeng_r	144.4​	90.31​	59.9%​
541.leela_r	163.6​	95.18​	71.9%​
548.exchange2_r	234.9​	140.71​	66.9%​
557.xz_r	77.8​	50.4​	54.4%​
GEOMEAN	113.28​	80.53​	40.7%​

SpecInt Rate-1 (from Anandtech): single threaded test

Test	7950X	12900k	Increase over 12900K
500.perlbench_r	10.1​	9.7​	4.1%​
502.gcc_r	11.8​	11.7​	0.9%​
505.mcf_r	9.6​	7.7​	24.7%​
520.omentpp_r	7​	6.1​	14.8%​
523.xalancbmk_r	8.3​	7.7​	7.8%​
525.x264_r	14.9​	13.7​	8.8%​
531.deepsjeng_r	7.3​	6.4​	14.1%​
541.leela_r	7.5​	6.1​	23.0%​
548.exchange2_r	15.4​	12.2​	26.2%​
557.xz_r	6.4​	4.8​	33.3%​
GEOMEAN	9.39​	8.15​	15.3%​

 

[RandallFlagg]

I wouldn't be so sure of that, chiplets still yield better & AMD's making them on smaller/denser nodes. The profit margins on the R9 chips are insane! Intel on the other hand lost slightly more (less?) than a billion for the first time in many years.

If AMD really wanted they could price Intel out of the market completely, but just like Intel in the previous decade they won't do that. I'll let you guess why.

The number you are talking about is Net Income available to stock holders. For Intel, it's that negative number in this list, Trailing 12 months (19.1B) then last quarter and so on.

For AMD this line looks like :

I should point out, Intel increased capital expenditures by $10B vs 2020. This is mostly to start up their IDM foundries and improve their nodes - expenses AMD does not (directly) incur.

Now that you know the facts, how certain are you that you have a point?

 

[Why_Me]

For intel, Pre-sale has started in my region and my location is shipping on October 20th.
After currency conversion vs msrp
13900k is $690(590),
13700k is $492(410),
13600k is $380(320).

For amd, after currency conversion vs msrp,
7950x is $775(700),
7900x is $605(550),
7700x is $422(400),
7600x is $317(300)

Relative to amd's msrp, I don't know if it's intel being confident or they just want to make a fortune in my area

This is what a lot of gamers will be waiting for.

Intel Core i5 13400F + B660 / B670 board + DDR4 3600

Intel's Core i5 13400 is shaping up to be a killer budget gaming chip

E cores come to our favorite budget CPU.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[tussinman]

Just remember already 8 year old GTA V.

I only played the single player but even then my old ivybridge (which is slower than the e-cores) had no issues getting the full 75hz at the time. The only "ecore only" video I found for GTA 5 was averaging 100FPS on very high settings using only the 12600K's E-cores.

 

[P4-630]

The only "ecore only" video I found for GTA 5 was averaging 100FPS on very high settings using only the 12600K's E-cores.

Forced in BIOS?

Can't find this video...

 

[Space Lynx]

From my understanding it's mostly really old games. From everything i've heard/read 2 common complaints is 1. the e-cores simply won't be utilized (which isn't technically a good or bad thing it just means you won't get any extra benefit) or 2. on some ancient games I've heard complaints of the e-cores running the game instead of the P cores (which I don't think technically matters to be honest, a game that's 10+ years old should be a joke to run anyways).

It does matter on super old games though, because I will be running those old games at 1440p 240hz someday, and I want the extra smoothness of highest frames possible, and I don't want e-cores holding me back.

 

[zlobby]

I agree with Der8auer that the Zen 4 chips have a thick heatsink over the ICC, its too thick according to him, and Intel has actually done some neat tricks regarding that in recent launches.

Yeah, like bending!

But yeah, apart from that I can't wait to see how much power these new 13-series CPU draw and dissipate.

Pricing is quite sus, IMO. If intel were so confidwnt that they will beat AMD across the board, then why did they priced their offerings so low?

 

[RedBear]

The Intel 7 node also seems to have got some technological improvements, with the company referring to it as the "3rd generation" of this node (optical 10 nm).

Intel 7+++? Raptor Lake might turn out to be very good, especially in terms of value because of cheaper previous generation motherboards and DDR4 compatibility (*look at Ryzen 7000*), but I really hope for Intel that Intel 7 won't turn out to be the new 14nm...

 

[Wirko]

Intel has given TD greater thread class awareness through machine-learning techniques (the processor learns over time what the nature of the workload could be). The

Now try to get a stable benchmarking score with this thing.

 

[IllIIIl]

This is what a lot of gamers will be waiting for.

Intel Core i5 13400F + B660 / B670 board + DDR4 3600

Intel's Core i5 13400 is shaping up to be a killer budget gaming chip

E cores come to our favorite budget CPU.

www.pcgamer.com

Indeed, the new product performance of amd and intel may be very close.

Maybe 13100 is also worth looking forward to? If it can have that level of performance improvement of the 12100f.

And maybe amd's 7500 is
not as bad as the previous generation?

 

[tussinman]

Forced in BIOS?

Can't find this video...

He used process lasso which can force whatever application you choose to use only the cores/threads that you manually select. He couldn't do bios option because the Bios requires you to have at least 1 P-core activated (you can deactivate all the e-cores in bios but can't deactivate all the p-cores)

He did the "ecore only" just to be funny but technically you can use the process lasso app to only run p-cores if you're having some sort of DRM or performance issue with older games

 

[AnotherReader]

I don't think you are right here. TSMC doesn't build chips for free. They get payed for those and in last years they had done some price hikes themselves affecting their customers. AMD is probably paying a high price for those chiplets. On the other hand Intel is taking money from one pocket and puts it in the other by building it's CPUs at it's own fabs. And they have so many models out there and so many customers and OEMs, that probably they are salvaging almost everything faulty they build. Probalem in iGPU? No problem. It's an F model. Problem in E core cluster? No problem. We just rename it. Problem in a P core? No problem again.

TSMC's latest nodes are very expensive, but AMD's small dies mean that they have low costs. Assuming that TSMC'S N6 costs the same as N7 and applying the 10% increase in 2022 to the prices in 2020, we get a manufacturing cost of US $ 68.21 for the 7950X and $ 45.28 for the 7700X. This doesn't account for packaging and R&D costs. The costs without the 10% increase, assuming a defect density of 0.09 per square cm for both N6 and N5, are below:

Node	Wafer Cost	Good dies	Die Cost
N6	9346​	460​	20.32​
N5	16988​	815​	20.84​

 

[Wirko]

If the die annotations are exact, the size of an E-core is 32% of that of a P-core. Same as Alder Lake or close. So if anyone is trying to compare performance per unit area, don't simply round it to 1/4.

And they have so many models out there and so many customers and OEMs, that probably they are salvaging almost everything faulty they build.

AMD collects the dies with one, two or three good cores but flawless L3, then assembles them into Epyc F-series processors, which are a special kind of monsters for low-threaded loads.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Raptor Lake looks like it'll retake the gaming crown, but Zen 4 will provide stiff competition.

​

Read the review, with a reasonable config of DDR5-6000 Intel never lost the gaming crown.

And it's not an anomaly. Look at sites that used similar memory configs and you see similar results. See wccftech's review, or eurogamer's.

 

[truehighroller1]

6 GHz KS SKU coming Q1 2023:

View attachment 263279

Why does he look so sick?

 

[THU31]

Pretty surprising pricing. Even though I still do not care about E-cores whatsoever, there is much more value here compared to Zen 4.

If the 13400(F) comes out under $200 with 6+4 cores and slightly higher boost clocks, it will be insanely good.

 

[mplayerMuPDF]

Why does he look so sick?

LOL "6 GHz OUT OF THE BOX!!!" in limited volumes and only if you wait another 6 months