• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel CFO Talks About 7nm Rollout, Delay in 10nm, Increased Competition from AMD

Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,822 (1.33/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
But surely 10nm only becomes irrelevant if you are ready to use someone else's fab or close your doors, if neither of these options are viable then you can only work with what you have.
10nm becomes irrelevant also when 7nm is close. Moving a fab over to a new node takes a long time. If Intel predicts 7nm in high volume production by the end of 2021, starting a move to 10nm today seems like waste of time and money. Not completely so as they have said move from 14nm to 10nm is bigger than from 10nm to 7nm but still. at the same time, 14nm is cheap, plentiful and production-ready today with no extra investment to the fab itself.

Sucks for us consumers but for Intel it does make sense to brave some of the storm out on 14nm.
 
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
4,440 (1.42/day)
Location
Currently Norway
System Name Bro2
Processor Ryzen 5800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling Corsair h115i pro rgb
Memory 32GB G.Skill Flare X 3200 CL14 @3800Mhz CL16
Video Card(s) Powercolor 6900 XT Red Devil 1.1v@2400Mhz
Storage M.2 Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500MB/ Samsung 860 Evo 1TB
Display(s) LG 27UD69 UHD / LG 27GN950
Case Fractal Design G
Audio Device(s) Realtec 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic 750W GOLD
Mouse Logitech G402
Keyboard Logitech slim
Software Windows 10 64 bit
I didn't explain that very well, you are right they can't click their fingers and change a chip that was designed for 10nm and now make it on 14nm. What I meant was Intel should have seen how bad things were with their 10nm and re-worked Ice Lake to work on 14nm. My understanding is that Intel has learnt this lesson and all architectures moving forward are cross node compatible, meaning if they did have an issue or shortage on a certain node they can use another node to plug the gap.
The problem with what you said is, that you don't know all the aspects of what Intel is planing, what is happening inside the company or what is the strategy. The only thing what you can be sure of is that Intel made the right choices for implementation since there is hundreds of people thinking about it and observing the market and opponents all the time. It is a huge company and the experience in the industry is there. What you are saying is based on the actual events that already happened. When Intel is planing this events are going to happen and that is the difference between us and Intel (or any other company in fact)
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
23 (0.01/day)
7nm is 7nm 5nm is 5nm what are you talking about?

Unfortunately this actually not the case. There are no standard rules for what 7nm or 5nm means when it comes to naming the process. Therefore it is partially driven by the marketing department. Figuring out actually performance between different processes is complicated and can be debated but for big picture estimate transistor density (MTr/mm2) is usually use.

For example if you look up 7nm in Wikipedia under the "7 nm Process nodes and process offering section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_nanometer. You see Intel 10nm more dense then all the other companies none euv 7nm but the 7nm base on euv are more dense then intel 10nm. One of the mistakes Intel made was being way to aggressive in there 10nm process. They way trying to hit a density level 4 years ago that no other company even attempted until EUV was available and obviously in hind site was a massive failure for intel.
 
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
4,440 (1.42/day)
Location
Currently Norway
System Name Bro2
Processor Ryzen 5800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling Corsair h115i pro rgb
Memory 32GB G.Skill Flare X 3200 CL14 @3800Mhz CL16
Video Card(s) Powercolor 6900 XT Red Devil 1.1v@2400Mhz
Storage M.2 Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500MB/ Samsung 860 Evo 1TB
Display(s) LG 27UD69 UHD / LG 27GN950
Case Fractal Design G
Audio Device(s) Realtec 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic 750W GOLD
Mouse Logitech G402
Keyboard Logitech slim
Software Windows 10 64 bit
Unfortunately this actually not the case. There are no standard rules for what 7nm or 5nm means when it comes to naming the process. Therefore it is partially driven by the marketing department. Figuring out actually performance between different processes is complicated and can be debated but for big picture estimate transistor density (MTr/mm2) is usually use.

For example if you look up 7nm in Wikipedia under the "7 nm Process nodes and process offering section. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_nanometer. You see Intel 10nm more dense then all the other companies none euv 7nm but the 7nm base on euv are more dense then intel 10nm. One of the mistakes Intel made was being way to aggressive in there 10nm process. They way trying to hit a density level 4 years ago that no other company even attempted until EUV was available and obviously in hind site was a massive failure for intel.
The name 7nm node means size of transistors being manufactured at 7nm. The type of transistor for example MosFet (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor). So it is a size of a transistor. So if it says 7nm node (transistors size is 7nm) meaning 7nm not 3nm or 10nm. If you say 1 inch, it is 1 inch not 1inch and 1/4.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,822 (1.33/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
7nm, as well as other recent node names have nothing at all to do with actual physical size of anything in the transistor :)
 

eidairaman1

The Exiled Airman
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
42,632 (6.68/day)
Location
Republic of Texas (True Patriot)
System Name PCGOD
Processor AMD FX 8350@ 5.0GHz
Motherboard Asus TUF 990FX Sabertooth R2 2901 Bios
Cooling Scythe Ashura, 2×BitFenix 230mm Spectre Pro LED (Blue,Green), 2x BitFenix 140mm Spectre Pro LED
Memory 16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon 290 Sapphire Vapor-X
Storage Samsung 840 Pro 256GB, WD Velociraptor 1TB
Display(s) NEC Multisync LCD 1700V (Display Port Adapter)
Case AeroCool Xpredator Evil Blue Edition
Audio Device(s) Creative Labs Sound Blaster ZxR
Power Supply Seasonic 1250 XM2 Series (XP3)
Mouse Roccat Kone XTD
Keyboard Roccat Ryos MK Pro
Software Windows 7 Pro 64
Fact: The last time AMD was faster than Intel; 2005
Fact: The last time Intel had to worry about AMD (Or anyone else for that matter) 2017

That is 12 years of complete dominance in marketing, sales and hardware. The other thing it can and has done is stagnate. I look at where Intel is today the same way I looked at Tahiti when it was finalized by ATI/AMD. That series of GPU was so popular and nice for the consumer that I am sure there are still a ton of people with 7950, 290,280,390 cards but what it did was stagnated the GPU division of AMD (by then) because they could not come up with anything better without a heavy investment of time, money and brain power (which became Polaris and eventually Navi). Intel is huge and I mean huge they have more foundries around the world than most of us are aware of. The problem with being that big is it will take Intel longer to respond to AMD's (well TSMC's) 7nm and so on as not only will they have to make changes to their current 14+++ but also try to refine the albatross that is 10nm. Unfortunately, based on the timeline provided by Mr Davis they may be too late to take the wind out of AMD's sails fully as we have been getting more concrete announcements from them. Every news article from Intel lately has been about promise and nothing more. They are simply not nimble enough to respond to AMD in even a year's time. I have zero doubts though that when Intel does release 10NM nad 7nm desktop parts they should absolutely fly but who knows where AMD will be then too.

Supposedly 2021 Ryzen 4/5 will be ddr5 and pcie 5/6.0
 

ppn

Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,231 (0.36/day)
""Compared to N7, N5 is said to provide a compaction ratio of 1.84x. WikiChip estimates the poly pitch to be around 48 nm along with a 30-nanometer metal pitch for an estimate transistor density of 171.3 MT/mm². ""
""If Intel’s 7-nanometer node ramps as planned in 2021, we estimate it at around 237.18 MTr/mm², ""

Intel may decide to go with less dense 7nm, but who knows. 10nm is history now. Only suitable for chipsets in the not so distant future.

Of course 14nm is around 44 Mt/mm2. Does it mean die area will suddenly shrink to 20%, probably not.
We will never see 10nm in decent numbers, what would be the point, so the jump is made 14 to 7nm and ratio of compaction 4-5 times.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
13,171 (2.79/day)
Location
Concord, NH, USA
System Name Apollo
Processor Intel Core i9 9880H
Motherboard Some proprietary Apple thing.
Memory 64GB DDR4-2667
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon Pro 5600M, 8GB HBM2
Storage 1TB Apple NVMe, 4TB External
Display(s) Laptop @ 3072x1920 + 2x LG 5k Ultrafine TB3 displays
Case MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
Audio Device(s) AirPods Pro, Sennheiser HD 380s w/ FIIO Alpen 2, or Logitech 2.1 Speakers
Power Supply 96w Power Adapter
Mouse Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard Logitech G915, GL Clicky
Software MacOS 12.1
We said we expect to have heightened competition over the next 18 to 24 months. And our outlook reflects that.
Oof. If I hadn't already sold all of my Intel stock, I would have after hearing that.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
23 (0.01/day)
The name 7nm node means size of transistors being manufactured at 7nm. The type of transistor for example MosFet (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor). So it is a size of a transistor. So if it says 7nm node (transistors size is 7nm) meaning 7nm not 3nm or 10nm. If you say 1 inch, it is 1 inch not 1inch and 1/4.

Find me one source that shows that any of the companies that calling there process 7nm acturally using a 7nm anything in there transitors. It dont meant what you think it does in how every company with a fab uses the term.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Messages
107 (0.04/day)
Location
Italy
System Name Frankenstin 2.0, Alienware X17 R2
Processor Ryzen 5 3600 @ 4400mhz, 1,248v fixed
Motherboard Fatal1ty B450 Gaming-ITX/ac
Cooling Swiftech Apogee drive 2 + XSPC x360 + generic GPU Waterblock
Memory 32Gb G.skill 3200 cl16
Video Card(s) Powercolor RX Vega 56, Custom watercooling - @ 64 mod
Storage Sabrent Rocket 1TB NVME
Display(s) Samsung LC27JG500
Case Thermaltake Core G3
Audio Device(s) Integrated + Denon AVR 2800
Power Supply Enermax Revolution SFX 650w
Mouse Trust GXT 152
Keyboard Logitech G413
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
No one ever said Intel suddently became unable to design integrated chips. What happened is that their size-related inertia and dominant position made them react very slowly to a naturally fast changing market. Which i think cannot be seen as a positive aspect. Probably they have technology updates planned for the next 10 years, but if the reaction times are slow, and they go panic-mode when the unexpected happens, I don't see this as positive for an enteprise that seems so focused on profitability.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
2,716 (0.54/day)
Location
Greece
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W
Motherboard MSI B550 Tomahawk
Cooling ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA
Memory 2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB
Storage Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB
Display(s) AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz
Case SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK
Audio Device(s) Realtek 7.1 onboard
Power Supply Seasonic Core GC 500W
Mouse Sharkoon SHARK Force Black
Keyboard Trust GXT280
Software Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux
They indirectly admit the failure of their 10nm process and promise better luck with their 7nm products from 2021 or later. 10nm will be sold only for mobile and low power CPUs, mostly for small servers. My 5c.
 
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
274 (0.10/day)
Just hurry with Tiger Lake, I don't ask for much in life. Sorry amd, i could care less about the current over the top hype of your come back, it took you long enough! I got burned by amd with their lies on bulldozer core count, and instability issues. Never again.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,542 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Until they can. Will they ever? Davis doesn't say, but we all know the answer.

No we don't. I mean, we can theorize until the cows come home, and we obviously are. None of us know and there are no hard statements from Intel to support this however.

That was my only point. If I had to bet, I would bet you are right. But I don't present bets as fact.

mostly for small servers

Some of the prototyped 10nm dies are defintely not "small server" material.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
12,582 (5.80/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon B
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE
I see all this press about nanometers as a pitiful way to hide the fact that they still have no clue how to improve on their x86 architecture after so many years. If all they can do is jam more cores on their old processors, give them a fancy new codename, and calling them "gamer" for no other reason than to convince gamers that they need these overpriced nonsenses, then I'll go with Ryzen for my next build. Until then I'm good with my Kaby i7 being 4-core and 14 nm and all.
 

Nkd

Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
364 (0.06/day)
Oh my goodness Intel is doomed! After Zen finally managed to equal skylake (CFL) and across three iterations and two major nodes. Ice lake is already demonstrating 18% IPC uplift and tiger even further. Behind the process problems genuine uarch dev continued. Zen 3 better be good.
Keep trolling. Please point me to CFL desktop gaming parts. Oh wait there are none! That’s what I thought. Move on.
 
Joined
Nov 15, 2016
Messages
454 (0.15/day)
System Name Sillicon Nightmares
Processor Intel i7 9700KF 5ghz (5.1ghz 4 core load, no avx offset), 4.7ghz ring, 1.412vcore 1.3vcio 1.264vcsa
Motherboard Asus Z390 Strix F
Cooling DEEPCOOL Gamer Storm CAPTAIN 360
Memory 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB (B-Die) 3600 14-14-14-28 1t, tRFC 220 tREFI 65535, tFAW 16, 1.545vddq
Video Card(s) ASUS GTX 1060 Strix 6GB XOC, Core: 2202-2240, Vcore: 1.075v, Mem: 9818mhz (Sillicon Lottery Jackpot)
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 1TB SSD, WD Blue 1TB, Seagate 3TB, Samsung 970 Evo Plus 512GB
Display(s) BenQ XL2430 1080p 144HZ + (2) Samsung SyncMaster 913v 1280x1024 75HZ + A Shitty TV For Movies
Case Deepcool Genome ROG Edition
Audio Device(s) Bunta Sniff Speakers From The Tip Edition With Extra Kenwoods
Power Supply Corsair AX860i/Cable Mod Cables
Mouse Logitech G602 Spilled Beer Edition
Keyboard Dell KB4021
Software Windows 10 x64
Benchmark Scores 13543 Firestrike (3dmark.com/fs/22336777) 601 points CPU-Z ST 37.4ns AIDA Memory
Oh my goodness Intel is doomed! After Zen finally managed to equal skylake (CFL) and across three iterations and two major nodes. Ice lake is already demonstrating 18% IPC uplift and tiger even further. Behind the process problems genuine uarch dev continued. Zen 3 better be good.
id buy a tiger lake 14nm++++ part, 5ghz with potentially %30 more ipc than skylake oof
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,847 (0.81/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Razer Pro Type Ultra
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
The biggest question has got to be - will Intel FUBAR 7nm like they did 10nm?
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,673 (6.05/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
System Name Tiny the White Yeti
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling CPU: Thermalright Peerless Assassin / Case: Phanteks T30-120 x3
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
VR HMD HD 420 - Green Edition ;)
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
Just hurry with Tiger Lake, I don't ask for much in life. Sorry amd, i could care less about the current over the top hype of your come back, it took you long enough! I got burned by amd with their lies on bulldozer core count, and instability issues. Never again.

That was a decade ago. What are you, a Dwarf?
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
21,542 (3.40/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
4,440 (1.42/day)
Location
Currently Norway
System Name Bro2
Processor Ryzen 5800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling Corsair h115i pro rgb
Memory 32GB G.Skill Flare X 3200 CL14 @3800Mhz CL16
Video Card(s) Powercolor 6900 XT Red Devil 1.1v@2400Mhz
Storage M.2 Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500MB/ Samsung 860 Evo 1TB
Display(s) LG 27UD69 UHD / LG 27GN950
Case Fractal Design G
Audio Device(s) Realtec 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic 750W GOLD
Mouse Logitech G402
Keyboard Logitech slim
Software Windows 10 64 bit
Find me one source that shows that any of the companies that calling there process 7nm acturally using a 7nm anything in there transitors. It dont meant what you think it does in how every company with a fab uses the term.
You have it on the TSMC site for instance. Go there and educate yourself. You're asking me to find you a source and prove to you that 1inch is actually 1inch on the tape-meter not 2 inches. 7nm process meaning 7nm transistors. What is to discuss here? Size of a transistor 7nm and yet you want source for this? Holy crap on a cracker. :)

7nm, as well as other recent node names have nothing at all to do with actual physical size of anything in the transistor
Actually it has everything to do with the transistor itself not what's in the transistor.
The problem appears with the space between transistors. That is why you have EUV, DUV etc. techniques to connect the transistor together which is always a problem.
The 5nm and even 3nm transistors are here already but the manufacturing process to (semiconductor device fabrication) is not ready yet. Although the 5nm TSMC is ready I guess but it is not in production yet.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
3,822 (1.33/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI
Memory 2x16GB G.Skill Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL36 (F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5)
Video Card(s) INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti SUPER TWIN X2
Storage 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, 4TB WD Black SN850X
Display(s) 42" LG C2 OLED, 27" ASUS PG279Q
Case Thermaltake Core P5
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ Platinum 760W
Mouse Corsair Dark Core RGB Pro SE
Keyboard Corsair K100 RGB
VR HMD HTC Vive Cosmos
Actually it has everything to do with the transistor itself not what's in the transistor.
The problem appears with the space between transistors. That is why you have EUV, DUV etc. techniques to connect the transistor together which is always a problem.
The 5nm and even 3nm transistors are here already but the manufacturing process to (semiconductor device fabrication) is not ready yet. Although the 5nm TSMC is ready I guess but it is not in production yet.
This is not right. Someone already linked to Wikipedia article about 7nm processes, I would narrow it down to this section:
Some of the parameters listed in the table - Transistor Gate Pitch, Transistor Fin Pitch, Transistor Fin Height, Minimum (Metal) Pitch are all parameters for physical size for various aspects of transistor components. Notably, these are all far bigger than 7nm.

Historically, the nm number in process name was gate length, then after some processes having just scaled numbered names half-pitch of memory cell was used and this again kind of goes out the window with FinFET at 14nm and smaller. Feature size (for couple/several different features) or resolution are the best generic descriptions of what the node number is about but even that is not accurate or true at this stage.
 
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
4,440 (1.42/day)
Location
Currently Norway
System Name Bro2
Processor Ryzen 5800X
Motherboard Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite
Cooling Corsair h115i pro rgb
Memory 32GB G.Skill Flare X 3200 CL14 @3800Mhz CL16
Video Card(s) Powercolor 6900 XT Red Devil 1.1v@2400Mhz
Storage M.2 Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500MB/ Samsung 860 Evo 1TB
Display(s) LG 27UD69 UHD / LG 27GN950
Case Fractal Design G
Audio Device(s) Realtec 5.1
Power Supply Seasonic 750W GOLD
Mouse Logitech G402
Keyboard Logitech slim
Software Windows 10 64 bit
This is not right. Someone already linked to Wikipedia article about 7nm processes, I would narrow it down to this section:
Some of the parameters listed in the table - Transistor Gate Pitch, Transistor Fin Pitch, Transistor Fin Height, Minimum (Metal) Pitch are all parameters for physical size for various aspects of transistor components. Notably, these are all far bigger than 7nm.

Historically, the nm number in process name was gate length, then after some processes having just scaled numbered names half-pitch of memory cell was used and this again kind of goes out the window with FinFET at 14nm and smaller. Feature size (for couple/several different features) or resolution are the best generic descriptions of what the node number is about but even that is not accurate or true at this stage.
I guess you are right. had an extensive read about this.
 
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
94 (0.03/day)
So they expect increased competition for the next 18 to 24 months? It sounds to me that they could be planning a few toc steps without any tic steps. Interesting.
 

ppn

Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
1,231 (0.36/day)
So they expect increased competition for the next 18 to 24 months? It sounds to me that they could be planning a few toc steps without any tic steps. Interesting.

14nm refreshes of kaby, coffee +2C, coffeeR+2C and comet +2 cores are all optimisations of skylake, and much more.
ice lake is architecture on 10+, tiger is optimisation of ice lake on 10++, then again sapphire rapids would be a process 7+, so what other tocs are there other than tiger.
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
87 (0.02/day)
System Name Custom build, AMD/ATi powered.
Processor AMD FX™ 8350 [8x4.6 GHz]
Motherboard AsRock 970 Extreme3 R2.0
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock Advanced C1
Memory Crucial, Ballistix Tactical, 16 GByte, 1866, CL9
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon HD 7850 Black Edition, 2 GByte GDDR5
Storage 250/500/1500/2000 GByte, SSD: 60 GByte
Display(s) Samsung SyncMaster 950p
Case CoolerMaster HAF 912 Pro
Audio Device(s) 7.1 Digital High Definition Surround
Power Supply be quiet! Straight Power E9 CM 580W
Software Windows 7 Ultimate x64, SP 1
20 years ago there were dozens of IC manufactures that had leading nodes or close to them. Now you can count them on the fingers of one hand, you think anyone cared that all of these guys had reliable nodes up to the point when they couldn't compete?
I couldn't picture what you was talking about, and likely so did others. So I made it, hope you like it.

The moment Intel resorts to other manufacturers it's over. There is a reason they are avoiding this like the plague and prefer to do nothing with regards to the shortages that they face and it's not due to their pride. The reason it's simple, so much of their cash and future product development is invested in their foundries it would probably sink them if they decide it isn't worth it any more, it's the same issue that nearly killed AMD many years ago. TSMC is the only viable manufacturer for leading nodes and there is no way they can sustain Intel's volumes, Intel is in really deep shit despite their efforts to appear calm.
So much this.

Smartcom
 
Top