Intel "Coffee Lake" Platform Detailed - 24 PCIe Lanes from the Chipset

[boe]

You are of course entitled to your opinions and you may be right but I doubt I'll see anything on my pc that will benefit beyond 8 cores in the next 5 years (no photoshop, no video editing, not a lot of compression or code breaking and since I buy real raid controllers they do all the work - no load really on the CPU. Also the ryzen still has a PCIe slowdown that hasn't been addressed since the ryzen 1. I'm not knocking AMD - they have really come a long way in the past year for CPUs and I'd actually like to see them beat Intel as competition is great but right now I don't think they are the king but certainly closing. My first PC that I built was a 386-40 AMD so I'm not shy about getting AMD when they are the best in class.

 

[nemesis.ie]

Isn't the 8700 a 6 core part though?

My main point (and not pushing AMD specifically) was that in your use case, you might like the 10GBe built in on the Asrock X470 board or the extra lanes on a TR4 (you can get an 8 core CPU for it to keep costs down) and you can just swap out the chip later (for a couple of gens at least) versus needing to buy a new motherboard if the next gens prove worth it.

I also have to wonder about all that storage if you are not manipulating video/images.

I'm definitely waiting to see how the 2xxx series TR looks before making a decision on a new machine.

 

[bug]

Indeed, in gaming I'm seeing some games + some games - between the competitors: https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Proce...-2600X-Review-Zen-Matures/1440p-and-4K-Gaming

It also takes around 10% faster to notice a significant difference and smoothness (consistency) is also important, the "headline" benchmark charts often to not report "perceived gameplay". If you do things like file transfers in the background while gaming, extra cores should help. IMO if you get to the point of a 10% difference but are seeing 100+fps with consistent frame times you'd be hard pressed to feel a difference outside competitive FPS gaming.

More cores is the future IMO.

If I was buying a machine now to last for up to 5 years with maybe only a graphics card swap or 3 I'd go for the better multi-threaded performance. Look what has happened with the 7700k, a year ago it was the gaming king, today I think it's "not so much" versus the more-cored CPUs. Then there are the platform considerations ...

Yes, because that is such a common occurrence and file transfer is a particularly CPU intensive task

 

[nemesis.ie]

Well it would help somewhat and especially if there is work to do on the transfers, such as compressing them first, which makes sense for backups of non-video/image stuff.

File transfer from the internet can also be quite CPU intensive if using e.g. bittorrent.

 

[newtekie1]

If I was buying a machine now to last for up to 5 years with maybe only a graphics card swap or 3 I'd go for the better multi-threaded performance. Look what has happened with the 7700k, a year ago it was the gaming king, today I think it's "not so much" versus the more-cored CPUs. Then there are the platform considerations ...

I'd have to disagree. When it comes to games, the 7700K is still right there with the higher core count parts.

I encode video in the background with my 8700K and play games, so I doubt file transfers and network activity would be a big issue.

 

[nemesis.ie]

We should revisit this thread in 6 months and a year and see how all the platforms/chips discussed compare then.

 

[boe]

Isn't the 8700 a 6 core part though?

My main point (and not pushing AMD specifically) was that in your use case, you might like the 10GBe built in on the Asrock X470 board or the extra lanes on a TR4 (you can get an 8 core CPU for it to keep costs down) and you can just swap out the chip later (for a couple of gens at least) versus needing to buy a new motherboard if the next gens prove worth it.

I also have to wonder about all that storage if you are not manipulating video/images.

I'm definitely waiting to see how the 2xxx series TR looks before making a decision on a new machine.

I was planning on getting the 9700k although I may not as it may not have enough PCIe lanes unless the z390 chipset helps out. If the ryzen 2 was all that and a bag o' chips I was considering the TR2 - unfortunately it was just shy of what I needed and 500 cores won't make it any more useful for my needs. I believe the 9700k will have 8 core which is already double what I have now along with more cache and some new tricks. Perhaps there will be something to replace the i9-7900x this year but probably not in time for me. The only time I've seen my processor even come close to maxing out was in gaming. I've run a ton of things at my PC over the last couple of years and gaming is the only stress for it. I've run to VMs while transferring at a full 10gbit and ripping a BD and it still didn't hit 50%. I can't remember what game I was playing - crisis 3 or MOH or COD but I know one of them hit my processor pretty hard so I'd like a little more power as games will undoubtedly get more sophisticated.

I'm not against having a 10g nic on board as long as the motherboard comes with 2 nics - doesn't matter to me if they are 1 or 10 as I'll use the quad 10g nic for connections to my other PCs.

I don't manipulate video images really as far as edit them but I do rip them which due to the speed of my BD player it can't keep up with the processor power. I store every single movie and TV series I own on my computer. I can never go back to getting up and finding a disc again - far more costly to do it this way but I have zero regrets.

 

[nemesis.ie]

If Ryzen 2000 is "just shy" the revamped TR might be bang on if they have a new chipset that adds a little magic sauce along with the top 5% of silicon.

Do we even know how much 9700k will be and when it will be out? IMO, waiting until it and TR2xxx are both launched and then make a decision seems prudent.

I've asked about 3 times now; please let me know the model of NIC you have and if you got it at a good price, a link to buy would be great. Thanks!

 

[R0H1T]

If Ryzen 2000 is "just shy" the revamped TR might be bang on if they have a new chipset that adds a little magic sauce along with the top 5% of silicon.

Do we even know how much 9700k will be and when it will be out? IMO, waiting until it and TR2xxx are both launched and then make a decision seems prudent.

I've asked about 3 times now; please let me know the model of NIC you have and if you got it at a good price, a link to buy would be great. Thanks!

If the 9700k is Icelake then you'll have to wait at least a year before that is out, assuming Intel isn't going to lie more than they usually do ~ https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Super-GAU-fuer-Intel-Weitere-Spectre-Luecken-im-Anflug-4039134.html

If it's CFL or WHL then I expect them to debut before the end of this year.

 

[boe]

I've asked about 3 times now; please let me know the model of NIC you have and if you got it at a good price, a link to buy would be great. Thanks!

I keep answering someone but I don't recall who - the network card is the X710-T4 - that is the 10g 4 port network card - again that is the X710-T4 network card. The price is relative so I can't say if the price is good. I paid $530 when I bought in December - http://www.provantage.com/intel-x710t4~7ITEN0U5.htm

In case someone is curious - this is the raid card - http://www.provantage.com/lsi-05-50011-00~7LSIG0VY.htm 9460-16i

If the 9700k is Icelake then you'll have to wait at least a year before that is out, assuming Intel isn't going to lie more than they usually do ~ https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Super-GAU-fuer-Intel-Weitere-Spectre-Luecken-im-Anflug-4039134.html

If it's CFL or WHL then I expect them to debut before the end of this year.

I think the 9700k may still be the 14nm process. I don't know much about the cascade lake x 10nm although they probably won't be out until January and will have a new socket although they are hopeful they'll have them out sooner - their manufacturing results so far point otherwise..

 

[nemesis.ie]

Thanks for the card details, a bit too spendy for me just now. I'd rather spend the 500 on a switch and use the cheap SFP+ ports to connect a couple of the machines, there is a netgear one with a selection of 1, 2.5, 5 and 10GBe on it for a "relatively" reasonable price but I think we should start seeing lower prices soon. /OT

 

[boe]

That would probably the better choice - you could just go sfp+ direct between machines and skip the switch.

 

[nemesis.ie]

I could but my NAS boxes only have multi-port GBe and no SFP+ so to connect them to the 10Gbe at faster than 1Gb I'd need the switch.

Anyway, back to our usual CPU shenanigans.

 

[boe]

So on the Z370 Taichi, the three PCI-E x16 slots all run off the CPU. So, with your setup, your graphics card will get an x8 link in the top slot, the NIC and RAID cards will get x4 links in the other two slots. Everything else on the motherboard runs off the 24 lanes from the chipset.

On the Z370 AORUS Gaming 7, the top two PCI-E x16 slots run off the CPU, the bottom one runs off lanes from the chipsets. So your GPU will get an x8 link, then whatever card you plug into the second slot will get an x8 link as well, and the card in the bottom slot will get an x4 link.

It sounds like you have a much better grasp of motherboards than I do. I'm wondering if I'd be better off getting a motherboard with only one 16x for the graphics pcie lanes and the other two 16x slots going through the other PCIe lanes so they'd max out at 4x for my network and storage throughput as I'll exceed the 8x throughput for video and that would cap me at 4gbit throughput for my storage and network (if I've done my math correctly). I don't know if it matters if my storage and network have a direct path to the CPU or not as it sounds like the non CPU pcie lanes don't?

 

[newtekie1]

It sounds like you have a much better grasp of motherboards than I do. I'm wondering if I'd be better off getting a motherboard with only one 16x for the graphics pcie lanes and the other two 16x slots going through the other PCIe lanes so they'd max out at 4x for my network and storage throughput as I'll exceed the 8x throughput for video and that would cap me at 4gbit throughput for my storage and network (if I've done my math correctly). I don't know if it matters if my storage and network have a direct path to the CPU or not as it sounds like the non CPU pcie lanes don't?

The problem is, AFAIK, there is no Z370 motherboards currently with only a single x16 slot run to the CPU and the other 2 x16 slots run off the chipset. Your best hope is that ASUS will release a Z370-WS like they have with previous generations.

With the Z270-WS it had 4 PCI-E x16 slots, all connected to the CPU through a PCI-E switch. I would assume the Z370-WS would be set up the same way. This allowed more flexibility, so you can do x16/x0/x16/x0 or you could do x16/x0/x8/x8(this is what you would want) or you could do x8/x8/x8/x8. Of course the ASUS WS boards aren't cheap, because the extra components to make this work aren't cheap.

 

[boe]

Thanks - does the z270-ws use some sort of plex/plx switch or does it use a server type processor as I thought the 8700k and the like didn't have enough pci-e lanes. My current gigabyte motherboard uses this. I couldn't find a z370 with it so I was hoping the z390 might.

 

[nemesis.ie]

I think all the Asus WS have a PCIe switch of some sort on the CPU lanes. My Z97-WS does anyway.

 

[newtekie1]

Thanks - does the z270-ws use some sort of plex/plx switch or does it use a server type processor as I thought the 8700k and the like didn't have enough pci-e lanes. My current gigabyte motherboard uses this. I couldn't find a z370 with it so I was hoping the z390 might.

They use a PCI-E switch chip like the plx but it might not be that specific brand. The chip receives all 16 lanes from the CPU and then provides two sets of 16 lanes that can then be divided again into 8 lane segments, resulting in 4 PCI-E x8 slots, or like I said different combination depending on what slots are in use.

 

[boe]

Thanks everyone for trying to help. I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and get something like this https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X299-AORUS-Ultra-Gaming-rev-10#sp with the x7900 when the x399 (for intel) chipset is available. Although gaming wise, it sure looks like the 8700k is the way to go so my best hope (with no guarantees it will ever come out) is either some amazing advancement in the TR2 over the 2700x or a 9700k processor and a pcie bridge.

 

[nemesis.ie]

It's definitely worth waiting a couple of months to see what products/news comes out I would think.