Intel Core i3-12100F

[thelawnet]

From you graphs it tells me that all I need for gaming is a 4C/8T. Im thinking you need a couple of games to show where a difference in cores can be more of a deciding factor in your conclusion on which CPU to buy. Fully understand is this is not possible.

I suspect 4C/8T is enough.

If you check out this:

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/j82J9WVbxffbxBHrn3KwQ5-970-80.png.webp

the 4C/4T i3-9 gets crushed on frametimes by Flight Simulator

Same story here at 128-player Battlefield 2042 (with the i3-8)

https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2370/bench/3.png

The 4C/8T i3-10 does fine in the same test.

Also:

Microsoft Flight Simulator - Op reis met Ryzen 5000 en GeForce 3000

Met een uitgebreide selectie processors en videokaarten gingen we aan de slag in Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020). In dit artikel vind je alle benchmarks.

tweakers.net

the now 4C/8T i3-10, with an RTX 3090, is identical to a 6C/12T i5-10.

So in fact for gaming any 10th-gen or newer i3 or better is 'fine', because 8T (or more).

 

[Richards]

Golden cove cores are truly golden

 

[Outback Bronze]

I suspect 4C/8T is enough.

The minimum frame rate is where the problem seems to lie atm. No real issues with avg.

I'm just starting to do some research now and with the more modern games cores pending, it seems to be the minimum frame rate suffering with 4C/8T.

Will do some more investigating and report back : )

This will take some time..

Edit: Here check out FC6 with RT on for example.

Far Cry 6 PC Performance Review and Optimisation Guide | CPU Performance & Core Scaling - Is Far Cry 6 CPU-limited? | Software | OC3D Review (overclock3d.net)

 

[seth1911]

But its an 3950X scaled down, not a Alder Lake.

 

[bug]

I suspect 4C/8T is enough.

If you check out this:

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/j82J9WVbxffbxBHrn3KwQ5-970-80.png.webp

the 4C/4T i3-9 gets crushed on frametimes by Flight Simulator

Same story here at 128-player Battlefield 2042 (with the i3-8)

https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/2370/bench/3.png

The 4C/8T i3-10 does fine in the same test.

Also:

Microsoft Flight Simulator - Op reis met Ryzen 5000 en GeForce 3000

Met een uitgebreide selectie processors en videokaarten gingen we aan de slag in Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020). In dit artikel vind je alle benchmarks.

tweakers.net

the now 4C/8T i3-10, with an RTX 3090, is identical to a 6C/12T i5-10.

So in fact for gaming any 10th-gen or newer i3 or better is 'fine', because 8T (or more).

It's a bit more complicated than that. Play at 4k, high details and the CPU is almost irrelevant. Play at FHD, lower the details in exchange for high-refresh and the CPU can suddenly become a bottleneck again.

And even when the CPU makes a difference, it has to be a significant one. If one CPU is, say, 20% faster than another, what does that give you? Where you had a 20fps min, you now have 24; where you had 100fps avg, you now have 120. Not something to write home about. It may let you turn a few settings up a notch, but that's it. It's part of the reason I never had a problem skipping CPU generations: the ROI simply wasn't there.

 

[thelawnet]

It's a bit more complicated than that. Play at 4k, high details and the CPU is almost irrelevant. Play at FHD, lower the detail in exchange for high-refresh and the CPU can suddenly become a bottleneck again.

And even when the CPU makes a difference, it has to be a significant one. If one CPU is, say, 20% faster than another, what does that give you? Where you had a 20fps min, you now have 24; where you had 100fps avg, you now have 120. Not something to write home about. It may let you turn a few settings up a notch, but that's it. It's part of the reason I never had a problem skipping CPU generations: the ROI simply wasn't there.

That wasn't really the point though.... The OP was asking if w1zzard can find some benchmarks which would make this 4C/8T CPU look really weak compared to a 6C/12T CPU. Not, 'should you scrap your existing PC', it was 'am I taking a big risk buying an i3', to which the answer seems to be 'no', because even the worst case doesn't seem to be that bad.

Edit: Here check out FC6 with RT on for example.

Far Cry 6 PC Performance Review and Optimisation Guide | CPU Performance & Core Scaling - Is Far Cry 6 CPU-limited? | Software | OC3D Review (overclock3d.net)

The min framerate results on the 4C/8T results there are kinda doubtful tbh. Why would they be so much weaker than the 4C/4T?

 

[W1zzard]

I doubt there's much difference in frametimes between Ryzen 3900X and 3950X. Architecture matters here, much more than core count

 

[Chrispy_]

Whilst this may be the budget CPU champion in isolation, what's the cheapest worthwhile S1700 board cost?

AFAIK the low-end motherboards supporting this CPU are all $139.99 whilst you can pick up equivalent-spec previous generation motherboards for $50-60 less.

When you look at what CPUs you can get for an extra $50-60 on top of the $105 asking price of this i3, it's suddenly not looking like such great value.

Don't get me wrong, it's still competitive, but it merely matches all the other options, rather than outright dominating them in the charts.

 

[bug]

Whilst this may be the budget CPU champion in isolation, what's the cheapest worthwhile S1700 board cost?

AFAIK the low-end motherboards supporting this CPU are all $139.99 whilst you can pick up equivalent-spec previous generation motherboards for $50-60 less.

When you look at what CPUs you can get for an extra $50-60 on top of the $105 asking price of this i3, it's suddenly not looking like such great value.

Don't get me wrong, it's still competitive, but it merely matches all the other options, rather than outright dominating them in the charts.

Boards for these have just been launched. Give it a couple of months, I'm sure the prices will settle down nicely.
And it's not strictly about costs, you get fast USB, PCIe4...

The CPU is a gem. Whether the platform as a whole is worth it to you, that, as always, depends on what you need.

 

[Chrispy_]

Boards for these have just been launched. Give it a couple of months, I'm sure the prices will settle down nicely.
And it's not strictly about costs, you get fast USB, PCIe4...

The CPU is a gem. Whether the platform as a whole is worth it to you, that, as always, depends on what you need.

Aye.
I'm always hesitant to endorse something based on the unproven expectation that prices will come down in the future. That thinking has failed us all quite a few times in the last couple of years! Whilst B660 is new, the launch price of them is far higher than B560 and B460 offerings ever were.

By the time Intel B660 boards come down in price, AMD may have slashed $100 off their old Zen3 lineup or (unlikely) expanded their entry-level offerings to include new 4C/8T and 6C/12T options to counter entry-level Alder Lake!

So yeah, I deal in the "now" and will re-evaluate the value of the entire platform if and when the prices change in the future.

 

[thelawnet]

Whilst this may be the budget CPU champion in isolation, what's the cheapest worthwhile S1700 board cost?

AFAIK the low-end motherboards supporting this CPU are all $139.99 whilst you can pick up equivalent-spec previous generation motherboards for $50-60 less.

When you look at what CPUs you can get for an extra $50-60 on top of the $105 asking price of this i3, it's suddenly not looking like such great value.

Don't get me wrong, it's still competitive, but it merely matches all the other options, rather than outright dominating them in the charts.

Asrock B660M HDV is $95 (https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813162055). There's a USB-C 3.2 port, 2 USB 3.2 ports, 1 USB 3.2 header, PCIE 4.0 x 16, plus 2 x1 slots, two M.2 slots (4x4, 3x4), 3 fan headers, DisplayPort & HDMI, & D-SUB, even a slot for M.2 wifi card.

The power & cooling is nothing special, but it beats any board at $95 you would pair with the only available competing chip, the i3-10100/10105.

Like, it's $80 for an H510M-A Pro, which seems to be the cheapest L1200 board, but that board is much worse - only 1 M.2 slot, no USB C, no PCIE 4.0 (because 10th gen), only 1 x1 slot, only 1 fan header, no wifi option.

At the moment availability on cheap boards is still poor in most territories. But within a few weeks a 10th-gen build is going to look stupid.

 

[W1zzard]

what's the cheapest worthwhile S1700 board cost?

Depends on your definition of worthwhile, how about ASRock B660M-HDV for 110 euros (including VAT)?

 

[bug]

Aye.
I'm always hesitant to endorse something based on the unproven expectation that prices will come down in the future. That thinking has failed us all quite a few times in the last couple of years! Whilst B660 is new, the launch price of them is far higher than B560 and B460 offerings ever were.

By the time Intel B660 boards come down in price, AMD may have slashed $100 off their old Zen3 lineup or (unlikely) expanded their entry-level offerings to include new 4C/8T and 6C/12T options to counter entry-level Alder Lake!

So yeah, I deal in the "now" and will re-evaluate the value of the entire platform if and when the prices change in the future.

Nobody endorsed anything. This was all about the CPU till you brought the whole platform in discussion. Which is a fair point, if someone was asking for advice to build a new PC. But this thread is about a CPU review

 

[thelawnet]

there are some very cheap boards listed here also:

Search results for: 'b660m'

At AWD-IT, we are proud to provide innovative IT products and solutions. Our team have over 50 years of collective intelligence in the industry. Shop today!

www.awd-it.co.uk

Asrock H610M-HVS (no M.2 slot!) £47/$64 + tax

No stock, but at that price Pentium builds also become interesting.

 

[Chrispy_]

Nobody endorsed anything. This was all about the CPU till you brought the whole platform in discussion. Which is a fair point, if someone was asking for advice to build a new PC. But this thread is about a CPU review

Yeah, for any product that mandates a new board and cannot fit into prior-gen boards, there's no such thing as a CPU in isolation. You HAVE to treat it as a total platform from a costing/upgrade path because there's no way not to. Same was true for Comet Lake, Skylake and Haswell too.

 

[seth1911]

Depends on your definition of worthwhile, how about ASRock B660M-HDV for 110 euros (including VAT)?

Asus H610 92€
Asrock B660 102€
Gigabyte B660 115€

 

[Chrispy_]

Asrock B660M HDV is $95 (https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813162055). There's a USB-C 3.2 port, 2 USB 3.2 ports, 1 USB 3.2 header, PCIE 4.0 x 16, plus 2 x1 slots, two M.2 slots (4x4, 3x4), 3 fan headers, DisplayPort & HDMI, & D-SUB, even a slot for M.2 wifi card.

The power & cooling is nothing special, but it beats any board at $95 you would pair with the only available competing chip, the i3-10100/10105.

Like, it's $80 for an H510M-A Pro, which seems to be the cheapest L1200 board, but that board is much worse - only 1 M.2 slot, no USB C, no PCIE 4.0 (because 10th gen), only 1 x1 slot, only 1 fan header, no wifi option.

At the moment availability on cheap boards is still poor in most territories. But within a few weeks a 10th-gen build is going to look stupid.

This is the kind of discussion I come here for.

H610 vs H510 is going to be interesting because H510 was a write-off in terms of performance/$ and everyone ignored it (even many OEMs and SIs)
H610 may gain traction as it's lacking so many features that B660 has it may be significantly cheaper - and for a single GPU build the only real downside other than fewer overall ports and slots is the loss of PCIe 4.0 storage. I don't think that's a deal breaker as many SSDs are still only PCIe 3.0 and real-world performance implications of running a PCIe 4.0 SSD in a PCIe 3.0 slot aren't really noticeable outside of a synthetic benchmark.

 

[bug]

Yeah, for any product that mandates a new board and cannot fit into prior-gen boards, there's no such thing as a CPU in isolation. You HAVE to treat it as a total platform from a costing/upgrade path because there's no way not to. Same was true for Comet Lake, Skylake and Haswell too.

If you're buying, maybe. As an electrical engineer, a CPU is interesting enough on its own.

 

[mechtech]

Ah well they are still selling out a lot.

Langley, Victoria, London, Ottawa.

XFX SPEEDSTER SWFT 210 Radeon RX 6600 CORE 8GB w/ HDMI, Triple DP - PCI-E Video Cards - Memory Express Inc.

Ya 670$. A bit better. But backordered and notes. Can’t guarantee prices on backorders, final sale, no exchanges……. Wow

 

[Outback Bronze]

Alright W1z i found a few games but gees it was pretty tough looking for poor performance on a 4C/8T CPU.

They really do seem to be still ok for gaming!

Anyways this was the best I could find without doing my own testing on my 12700K and installing a 101 games etc..

The systems was a 9900K with cores and HT turned off etc. Going to list them in no particular order.

I can list some more games but really what was happening was that the averages were the same but the minimums were slightly lower than its more core counter part.

It was a mission for me to find many games that didn't run well on a 4C/8T CPU and with the IPC rating of the 12100 id say its a very capable CPU for gaming atm.

But as you can see from the graphs I have posted, you can clearly see that 4C/8T is only just starting to show its age.

All the games I have shown here are probably not what your looking for on your reviews so I've tried my best : )

 

[r9]

Now we just need a $50 mobo that allows 5.2GHz OC.

 

[thelawnet]

This is the kind of discussion I come here for.

H610 vs H510 is going to be interesting because H510 was a write-off in terms of performance/$ and everyone ignored it (even many OEMs and SIs)
H610 may gain traction as it's lacking so many features that B660 has it may be significantly cheaper - and for a single GPU build the only real downside other than fewer overall ports and slots is the loss of PCIe 4.0 storage. I don't think that's a deal breaker as many SSDs are still only PCIe 3.0 and real-world performance implications of running a PCIe 4.0 SSD in a PCIe 3.0 slot aren't really noticeable outside of a synthetic benchmark.

Yeah I'd like to see some benchmarks comparing M.2 performance on something like a WD SN550 (which is PCI 3.0 x 4) between a H610M board (at 3.0 x 4) and a Z690, or something like that.

You'd also need to check the actual board prices, because currently Newegg have the H610M HDV/M.2 at $5 more than the B660M HDV, which is more-or-less identical to the H610M HDV/M.2 in terms of power delivery etc. ports, headers, etc., but has the extra M.2 slot and a USB-C port, so there's there no reason to buy a H610M board. But in another place and time, it could be the H610M comes in $30 or $40 cheaper, in which case you might well not see any reason to pay for B660.

 

[Selaya]

This is the kind of discussion I come here for.

H610 vs H510 is going to be interesting because H510 was a write-off in terms of performance/$ and everyone ignored it (even many OEMs and SIs)
H610 may gain traction as it's lacking so many features that B660 has it may be significantly cheaper - and for a single GPU build the only real downside other than fewer overall ports and slots is the loss of PCIe 4.0 storage. I don't think that's a deal breaker as many SSDs are still only PCIe 3.0 and real-world performance implications of running a PCIe 4.0 SSD in a PCIe 3.0 slot aren't really noticeable outside of a synthetic benchmark.

also ddr4-3200 is definitely competent while ddr4-2666's borderline inept, which is yet another reason why the h410/b460/h510s are all doa

 

[Chrispy_]

Yeah I'd like to see some benchmarks comparing M.2 performance on something like a WD SN550 (which is PCI 3.0 x 4) between a H610M board (at 3.0 x 4) and a Z690, or something like that.

I mean, the difference is going to be like this:

• Windows will take 7.8 seconds to boot instead of 7.6 seconds.
• Opening Chrome will take 0.82 seconds instead of 0.79 seconds.
• Loading a game level will take 12.4 seconds instead of 12.3 seconds.

The only instances where you'll see differences is when you copy several gigs of data from RAM to disk and back. Chances are you're not in the market for an ultra-budget platform if you're doing that regularly as the people who need a PCIe 4.0 SSD can usually justify the premium. Additionally, the cheapest PCIe 4.0 SSD on the market is still like a 25% more expensive than any of the obvious budget NVMe drive choices that you'd pair with a budget CPU and motherboard. The PCIe 3.0 SN570 performs very close to the PCIe 4.0 Atom50 but it's $30 cheaper. $30 is a lot in this segment.

Alright W1z i found a few games but gees it was pretty tough looking for poor performance on a 4C/8T CPU.

They really do seem to be still ok for gaming!

But as you can see from the graphs I have posted, you can clearly see that 4C/8T is only just starting to show its age.

All the games I have shown here are probably not what your looking for on your reviews so I've tried my best : )

I think the consoles are the reason that 6 threads is the minimum requirement now. Both PS5 and XBSX have 8C/16T but only give 6C/12T for game use and reserve two cores for OS and background services.

In the case of the quad cores, it's better to have 6 real cores but 4 real cores and 2 more logical cores is "good enough" it would seem.

 

[Assimilator]

IMO you should've kept this review to the stock 12100F, and done a separate piece on BCLK overclocking on all of the non-K ADL SKUs you've reviewed so far, because you're causing a lot of confusion. I already see so many users here who have completely ignored the requirement of the external clock generator, which H610 boards almost certainly aren't going to have.