Intel Core i3-12300

[HD64G]

It's called binning: you will push a chip as far as it can go and you will charge as much as you can in return. Assuming a normal distribution, chips at either end of the scale will naturally be found in lower numbers than the rest.
If you want to attach a conspiracy or a rip-off story, that's simply your option.

Thanks for the free lesson for the chip binning, I am well aware of what it is though. Now my turn: It is called marketing and that is very old to deny its existence. And my previous post had to do only with how the marketing segment of a tech company is using the binned chips to form a customer-friendly image to the customer base. Any objections on that?

 

[W1zzard]

@W1zzard good review but where appear igp tests*

*I no hope much from this but is interesting for complete review

Let me see what I can do over the weekend

 

[ExcuseMeWtf]

Guess I made right choice going with 12100F after all.

 

[mechtech]

Nice review W!zz. The only other thing I would love to see going forward with cpu reviews is integrated graphics and media engine performance due to the graphics card situation.

my gpu still works, but in all honesty if it dies I will probably just get a cpu with integrated graphics with a new motherboard and new ram for less than a new gpu.

 

[thelawnet]

The elephant in the room here is stilll Comet Lake; The 10100 and 10400F are cheaper, come with a wide array of B560 boards that are a bare minimum of $30 cheaper than the cheapest, nastiest B660 board you can find. Until stocks of either 500-series boards or Comet Lake CPUs dry up, Alder Lake is overpriced against it. If you go for an H-series board you're basically throwing away most of the reasons to choose Alder Lake in the first place.

When an i3-10100 is 80% the speed of a 10300 and yet costs $200 for the platform instead of almost $300 for the 12300 platform, that minor performance difference doesn't really alter much for your extra $90-100, and the i3 is aimed squarely at the part of the market where performance/$ is the single most important metric by an almost-unspeakably wide margin.

What exactly are you 'throwing away' when you get an H610 (not 'H-series': H670 also exists) board with Alder Lake?

Also 10400f/10100f doesn't support PCIE 4.0 with B560 boards, so....

Why are you comparing 10100 with 12300? The 10300 and the 12100 both exist. Obviously the 12300 is a questionable purchase.

At the moment the regular (non-F, because GPU prices suck) 10100 is $110 and the 12100 is $140. Without the GPU $30 less.

Looking on Newegg, a B560M DS3H is $100, and a B660M DS3H is $120. There is the B660M HDV (pretty crappy) for $95, which is $5 more than a B560M board.

There is roughly a $50 premium, which is really not unreasonable, considering that it's 1/3 faster, and 1/3 of $200 is $66. Plus, the 10100 won't support PCIE 3.0, and at the moment the fastest GPU for under $300 is the 6500 XT..... And there's a 6500 and a 6400 XT coming, allegedly around $150. So if you ended up with one of those GPU, which with an i3 is a very likely event, then you definitely wouldn't want to be using a PCIE 3.0 CPU.

 

[Selaya]

Thanks for the free lesson for the chip binning, I am well aware of what it is though. Now my turn: It is called marketing and that is very old to deny its existence. And my previous post had to do only with how the marketing sector of a tech company is using the binned chips to form a customer-friendly image to the customer base. Any objections on that?

i mean clearly this isnt binning but just bullshit market segmentation, seeing as it OC'd to 5.0 quite alright so yeah

 

[seth1911]

ATM
H310 38€
H410 49€
H510 60€
H610 90€

 

[thelawnet]

you also get a better igp too since 630 > 730 and id argue igp performance's more important (well, can always plug in something like a 1030 later but yea) if you're not doing a budget gaming build w/ dgpu

730 > 630.

The i3-12100 is 1.4 GHz Xe, and the i3-10100 is 1.1 GHz GT9.5 (basically Skylake). The GPU cores are about 25% faster and the frequency is up by 25% as well, so you do the math.... Alder Lake's IGP is quite a bit better than the same architecture in Rocket Lake. Still not very good, but better.

 

[Selaya]

yeah, the 750/770 are better, problem is the 730 is cut down and more like a 610, so a full gen9.5 630 will beat a cutdown xe 730

 

[thelawnet]

yeah, the 750/770 are better, problem is the 730 is cut down and more like a 610, so a full gen9.5 630 will beat a cutdown xe 730

False.

32 EU XE = 770 = 750
24 EU XE = 730 https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...12400-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html
16 EU XE = 710
24 EU GT9.5 = 630
12 EU GT9.5 = 610

The only difference from Comet Lake to Alder Lake is there is no longer a 24 EU Pentium part, although they slightly bumped from 12 to 16 EUs. Otherwise apart from the architectural improvements you get big GPU clock boosts, and there's technically a lot of headroom to overclock the GPU to 2GHz or whatever.

 

[Selaya]

interesting.
everything ive seen points to the 730 being slower than the 630 tho, it seems to take the 770/750 to (conclusively) beat the 630, maybe they're wrong?

EDIT: found this:

looks like you're right, 730 > 630

 

[W1zzard]

Nice review W!zz. The only other thing I would love to see going forward with cpu reviews is integrated graphics and media engine performance due to the graphics card situation.

my gpu still works, but in all honesty if it dies I will probably just get a cpu with integrated graphics with a new motherboard and new ram for less than a new gpu.

pray that it won't die .. your RX 480 is twice (!) as fast as Ryzen 5700G IGP, so like 3x as fast as the 12300 IGP. Benching right now but it's not looking good, not even 720p lowest

edit: added a page with IGP performance

 

[seth1911]

UHD 710, 730 have 24 EUs, UHD 750 and 770 have 32EUs.
16

Its a bad move from intel a UHD Rocket Lake is the same like a UHD 770 Alderlake

 

[N3M3515]

Real price of this is $125 nuff' said.

 

[catulitechup]

edit: added a page with IGP performance

Many thanks sadly intel igp desktop is so reduced hardware compared intel laptop igps* and desktops igps stay so far than amd gpus

*pentium 7505 in laptop have 48eus 3x more than pentium desktop igp and i5 laptop igp have 80 - 96 eus compared 32eus in i5 desktop igp

amd igpus see in rear mirror intel igpus (maybe pat could give better igps than crappy phrases)

 

[Selaya]

One of the selling points of Ryzen 7 5700G is its integrated graphics capability. The graphics cores are based on the Vega architecture, which is fairly old. In the Ryzen 7 5700G, you'll find eight Compute Units, which result in a total shader count of 512. The graphics cores are clocked at a frequency of 2 GHz and share the system's main memory as graphics memory.

@W1zzard think you mean the 12300 in this case

also, might want to specify whether its the 1030-d4 or 1030-d5 since they're like night-and-day apart in terms of performance

 

[mechtech]

pray that it won't die .. your RX 480 is twice (!) as fast as Ryzen 5700G IGP, so like 3x as fast as the 12300 IGP. Benching right now but it's not looking good, not even 720p lowest

edit: added a page with IGP performance

fingers crossed, knock on wood, etc. etc. I hope it lasts another 10 years at least lol I guess that I mainly play Terraria and Borderlands 1 GOTY, integrated would probably be playable.

Edit - @W!zz or anyone, the way ddr5 is set up with channels, high clocks, albeit with higher timings, would it have a beneficial effect on integrated graphics or no??

 

[Upgrayedd]

Can yall get some RT tests for CPUs?
RT hits the CPU much harder than people think. I want to upgrade from devils canyon but RT performance is no where to be found with CPU reviews

 

[Chrispy_]

Can yall get some RT tests for CPUs?
RT hits the CPU much harder than people think. I want to upgrade from devils canyon but RT performance is no where to be found with CPU reviews

I'm not sure I follow...

In games, the GPU is almost always the bottleneck. If you enable RT then the workload balance shifts even further onto the GPU.

RT does not, that I am aware, hit the CPU harder. If anything, the reduced total framerate makes the CPU load lighter when running RT effects in a game. All of the extra work is on the GPU and the CPU is just sat there waiting for the GPU to finish a frame.

you also get a better igp too since 630 > 730 and id argue igp performance's more important (well, can always plug in something like a 1030 later but yea) if you're not doing a budget gaming build w/ dgpu

I'd forgotten that Comet Lake's IGP is older than Rocket Lake/Alder Lake.

Not that it matters; Even Alder Lake's IGP is woeful. You either need an IGP or you don't, the performance is going to be too awful no matter what gen it is. If Intel hadn't crippled the IGP and left it as 80/96 EU then perhaps the Alder Lake IGP wouldn't be underwhelmingly useless.

fingers crossed, knock on wood, etc. etc. I hope it lasts another 10 years at least lol I guess that I mainly play Terraria and Borderlands 1 GOTY, integrated would probably be playable.

Edit - @W!zz or anyone, the way ddr5 is set up with channels, high clocks, albeit with higher timings, would it have a beneficial effect on integrated graphics or no??

IGP performance is primarily latency-sensitive, and all else being equal, bandwidth-sensitive.

So DDR5 6400 CL32 is the same latency as DDR4 3200 CL16. In a like-for-like IGP test, you'd assume that they both perform similarly at 720p but in games where the IGP has enough performance to push 1080p and beyond the DDR5 option would scale better less poorly.

Given that even the UHD 750 is too slow to provide meaningful framerates at 720p in many current AAA titles, scaling up to higher resolutions isn't really even relevant, so the discussion of DDR4 vs DDR5 isn't as important as "Hey Intel, where the hell are the other 64 EU in my IGP?"

 

[mechtech]

I'm not sure I follow...

In games, the GPU is almost always the bottleneck. If you enable RT then the workload balance shifts even further onto the GPU.

RT does not, that I am aware, hit the CPU harder. If anything, the reduced total framerate makes the CPU load lighter when running RT effects in a game. All of the extra work is on the GPU and the CPU is just sat there waiting for the GPU to finish a frame.


I'd forgotten that Comet Lake's IGP is older than Rocket Lake/Alder Lake.

Not that it matters; Even Alder Lake's IGP is woeful. You either need an IGP or you don't, the performance is going to be too awful no matter what gen it is. If Intel hadn't crippled the IGP and left it as 80/96 EU then perhaps the Alder Lake IGP wouldn't be underwhelmingly useless.


IGP performance is primarily latency-sensitive, and all else being equal, bandwidth-sensitive.

So DDR5 6400 CL32 is the same latency as DDR4 3200 CL16. In a like-for-like IGP test, you'd assume that they both perform similarly at 720p but in games where the IGP has enough performance to push 1080p and beyond the DDR5 option would scale better less poorly.

Given that even the UHD 750 is too slow to provide meaningful framerates at 720p in many current AAA titles, scaling up to higher resolutions isn't really even relevant, so the discussion of DDR4 vs DDR5 isn't as important as "Hey Intel, where the hell are the other 64 EU in my IGP?"

Wouldn't that be overwhelmingly useless

 

[Chrispy_]

There's nothing overwhelming about UHD graphics!

 

[seth1911]

UHD 750 with OC to 1750 MHz isnt that bad

 

[thelawnet]

UHD 750 with OC to 1750 MHz isnt that bad

UHD 770 seems to reach 2.1 GHz without much trouble

SkatterBencher #33: Intel UHD Graphics 770 Overclocked to 2378 MHz - SkatterBencher

We overclock the Intel UHD Graphics 770 up to 2378 MHz with the ROG Maximus Z690 Extreme motherboard and EK-Quantum water cooling.

skatterbencher.com

I'm not sure how much the 5600G GPU overclocks, but an overclocked 12600K should be pretty close to the 5600G.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I'm not sure I follow...

In games, the GPU is almost always the bottleneck. If you enable RT then the workload balance shifts even further onto the GPU.

RT does not, that I am aware, hit the CPU harder. If anything, the reduced total framerate makes the CPU load lighter when running RT effects in a game. All of the extra work is on the GPU and the CPU is just sat there waiting for the GPU to finish a frame.

Yeah RT is meant for the GPU but enabling taxes the CPU as well. Its not a GPU only thing.

Ask my aging 4790K why enabling it makes it hit 90%+ while the GPU lowers itself in utilization along with my frames. I assume its the BVH structure.

 

[seth1911]

With DDR5 it would be insane for an IGP with only 32 EU, bad that intel dont release the iris 80 or 96 EU on Desktop this would be overkill

80EU @ 2100 MHz would be 2.68 TFLOP with DDR5 6000 96GB/s, GTX 1050TI level