Intel Core i5-10400F

[tajoh111]

Prices on newegg are showing z490 motherboards starting at 145 dollars. There are plenty of mb in the 150-160 dollar range with a pretty strong feature set. As a result, the z490 is hardly some luxury platform with only expensive motherboards people are making it out to be(e.g 300 dollar motherboard).

The cheapests b450 mb under the 100 dollar range are all mATX boards and some don't even have USB c support. They also only have a single m2 slot.

It's only when you move into the 130 dollar range with b450 motherboards where you get a full ATX motherboards with multiple M2 slots, along with USB C support. The 145-160 dollar Z490 MB feature multiple m2 slots, USB C gen 2, ATX form factor and more robust VRM and chipset cooling more along the lines of 130 and up B450 motherboards.

 

[watzupken]

And this review is using a 3rd party cooler from what I understood? Totally unrealistic...

Totally agree on this. I feel it is good to see the full potential of the chip by using a good cooler. But I think it is also critical to show the performance results with the stock cooler. Some people buy the chip based on reviews that says its good in value and performance. I don't think many people actually turn to look at what cooler is being used for the reviews. As a result, these folks will start writing in forums asking if the temps are too high or poor performance, and some even attempt overclocked on stock coolers (typical on AMD processors). In this case, I am doubtful that the stock Intel cooler is capable of sustaining at high clockspeed as shown in the review.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

In which universe this is better value then a cheaper Ryzen 3600??? - that is because its not. You need a z490 to even touch the BLCK for that tiny OC, not to mention the memory restriction.

Sorry but this is a FAIL

And Ryzens can't OC for shit. What's your point?

 

[watzupken]

Prices on newegg are showing z490 motherboards starting 145 dollars. There are plenty of mb in the 150-160 dollar range with a pretty strong feature set. As a result, the z490 is hardly some luxury platform with only expensive motherboards people are making it out to be(e.g 300 dollar motherboard).

The cheapests b450 mb under the 100 dollar range are all mATX boards and some don't even have USB c support. They also only have a single m2 slot.

It's only when you move into the 130 dollar range with b450 motherboards where you get a full ATX motherboards with multiple M2 slots, along with USB C support. The 145-160 dollar Z490 MB feature multiple m2 slots, USB C gen 2, ATX form factor and more robust VRM and chipset cooling more along the lines of 130 and up B450 motherboards.

I agree that Z490 have a wide price range and should somewhat cater to people with lower budget. But at the lower end, this supposed more robust VRM is questionable. I certainly will not recommend people to get the cheapest Z490 board and pair it with the top end chip. Also when I am looking at budget range, I don't expect people to be bothered about having USB C connection and X number of M.2 slots. These are good to have, and if you don't mind paying for features that you may not use. For me, a single M.2 slot is more than enough at least. If I need storage, I can always fall back to cheaper SATA SSDs.

And Ryzens can't OC for shit. What's your point?

This is untrue. At the top end, this may be true. At the lower end like the non X versions, there are decent overclocking headroom. I suspect it is highly possible to get a 3600 to close to the boost clock of this 10400. Clock for clock, Intel will lose their single core advantage.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I agree that Z490 have a wide price range and should somewhat cater to people with lower budget. But at the lower end, this supposed more robust VRM is questionable. I certainly will not recommend people to get the cheapest Z490 board and pair it with the top end chip. Also when I am looking at budget range, I don't expect people to be bothered about having USB C connection and X number of M.2 slots. These are good to have, and if you don't mind paying for features that you may not use. For me, a single M.2 slot is more than enough at least. If I need storage, I can always fall back to cheaper SATA SSDs.

A lot of false comparisons in this thread, from obvious misguided brand loyalty.

Z490 is not a low end chipset. Intel will be releasing the H470, B460 & H410 series for that.

Z490 is comparable to X570. The lowest price Z490 board is around $150, lowest priced X570 board on Newegg is $189 right now. There's no veracity regarding extremely overpriced intel chipset based motherboards.

Plenty of people will want the features of the higher end board with a midrange chip. The i5 series is decidedly a midrange part, not low end, though the 10400 is clearly the 'low end' of 'midrange'. Lots of people prioritize USB-c for various reasons. I do because I use it to drive 3 USB 3.0 ports and a couple of SD/MicroSD slot readers on a hub that is conveniently located under my monitor stand instead of having to do yoga to get to my ports.

Meanwhile the lack of low end chipsets for cheap motherboards on socket 1200 is coming to a close. You're going to have midrange and low end chipsets for socket 1200, as it has always been for every other socket Intel or AMD has introduced.

ASRock Reveals Intel H470, B460, H410 Motherboards For 10th Gen Comet Lake CPUs

Inexpensive options for Comet Lake.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[tajoh111]

I agree that Z490 have a wide price range and should somewhat cater to people with lower budget. But at the lower end, this supposed more robust VRM is questionable. I certainly will not recommend people to get the cheapest Z490 board and pair it with the top end chip. Also when I am looking at budget range, I don't expect people to be bothered about having USB C connection and X number of M.2 slots. These are good to have, and if you don't mind paying for features that you may not use. For me, a single M.2 slot is more than enough at least. If I need storage, I can always fall back to cheaper SATA SSDs.



This is untrue. At the top end, this may be true. At the lower end like the non X versions, there are decent overclocking headroom. I suspect it is highly possible to get a 3600 to close to the boost clock of this 10400. Clock for clock, Intel will lose their single core advantage.

Even the cheapest z490 motherboards have robust VRMs, likely due to the power requirements of the i9 series.

ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4 LGA 1200 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4 LGA 1200 Intel Z490 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

MSI MEG Z490I UNIFY Mini ITX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy MSI MEG Z490I UNIFY LGA 1200 Intel Z490 SATA 6Gb/s Mini ITX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

The lowest VRM design on the z490 platform I have seen is a 10 phase power design on the cheapest motherboards with most pushing a 12 phase design including $150 dollar motherboards.

Cheap B450 motherboards start with 4 phases power deliveries and it is quite common. Most of the B450 with supposed a high vrm count have a fake count.

[Übersicht] - PGA AM4 Mainboard VRM Liste

PGA AM4 Mainboard VRM Liste (inkl. B450 / X470 Update) PGA AM4 B350 / X370 / B450 / X470 VRM Liste Hier geht's zur X570, P560, B550, A520, A420 VRM Liste von emissary42! Unterschiedliche Versorgungsspannungen für Prozessoren auf dem Sockel AM4: CPU VCC, die Versorgungsspannung für die...

www.hardwareluxx.de

On the other hand almost everything is 12 phase for the z490 platform.

The Intel Z490 Overview: 44+ Motherboards Examined

www.anandtech.com

Intel Z490 Chipset Launches: 50 Comet Lake-S Motherboards Detailed

A slew of new Comet Lake-S Intel boards are incoming, some with PCIe 4 support--for future CPUs.

www.tomshardware.com

Z490 do not "supposedly" delivery more robust power delivery systems than B450 motherboards, they absolutely do. In addition, USB C is becoming more and more essential as it becomes ubiquitous with the standard connectivity choice from cellphones, cameras, external storage. Considering a budget user is more likely to stay on their platform longer, having a USB C port will allow them that freedom.

 

[OneMoar]

Even the cheapest z490 motherboards have robust VRMs, likely due to the power requirements of the i9 series.

ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4 LGA 1200 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4 LGA 1200 Intel Z490 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

MSI MEG Z490I UNIFY Mini ITX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy MSI MEG Z490I UNIFY LGA 1200 Intel Z490 SATA 6Gb/s Mini ITX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

The lowest VRM design on the z490 platform I have seen is a 10 phase power design on the cheapest motherboards with most pushing a 12 phase design including $150 dollar motherboards.

Cheap B450 motherboards start with 4 phases power deliveries and it is quite common. Most of the B450 with supposed a high vrm count have a fake count.

[Übersicht] - PGA AM4 Mainboard VRM Liste

PGA AM4 Mainboard VRM Liste (inkl. B450 / X470 Update) PGA AM4 B350 / X370 / B450 / X470 VRM Liste Hier geht's zur X570, P560, B550, A520, A420 VRM Liste von emissary42! Unterschiedliche Versorgungsspannungen für Prozessoren auf dem Sockel AM4: CPU VCC, die Versorgungsspannung für die...

www.hardwareluxx.de

On the other hand almost everything is 12 phase for the z490 platform.

The Intel Z490 Overview: 44+ Motherboards Examined

www.anandtech.com

Intel Z490 Chipset Launches: 50 Comet Lake-S Motherboards Detailed

A slew of new Comet Lake-S Intel boards are incoming, some with PCIe 4 support--for future CPUs.

www.tomshardware.com

Z490 do not "supposedly" delivery more robust power delivery systems than B450 motherboards, they absolutely do. In addition, USB C is becoming more and more essential as it becomes ubiquitous with the standard connectivity choice from cellphones, cameras, external storage. Considering a budget user is more likely to stay on their platform longer, having a USB C port will allow them that freedom.

yea because when vendors start playing with mce(multi core enhancement) the cpus start drawing over 200w
related

edit I don't know about you but I have a usb type c/thunderbolt port on my board and the only thing it gets used for is to run a type c to type A 3.1 hub
every single one of my usb c devices uses a A to C cable and that is the way nearly all devices ship so moot point

 

[F-man4]

Why the CPU IHS cases are different in Page 2?

The latter picture’s CPU IHS case is used for Q0 stepping CPUs (which is regarded as soldered) but the former one is for G1 stepping CPUs (which is regarded as using thermal paste).

BTW Q0 should have 2933MHz DDR4 support but G1 should not.

 

[W1zzard]

Why the CPU IHS cases are different in Page 2?

Fixed, nice find

 

[kayjay010101]

We've also had that odd one out with similar 6c6t 8th gen in some Ubisoft titles where it would perform absolutely horribly in some places.

Puzzling indeed. But it is more likely to be within the game code than it is a CPU issue. IMO... ignore and move on Shitty games appear left and right and Far Cry / AC games are not exempt. I still remember Unity at launch, utterly painful regardless of hardware.

Seems to me like a game code-issue as well. Since it happens in only Metro, and at every resolution. It's a consistent "bug". Even when restricted to 6c/6t the 9700k should wipe the floor with the 8400 in every percievable way, so the only logical conclusion is that the game has some sort of bias towards the 8400 or isn't utilizing the 9700k properly, even though (if we assume the game only uses upwards of 6t so the only difference between the 9700k and the 8400 is clock speed and cache(s)) the 9700k should still outperform the 8400 by a longshot. Perhaps it's related to having to juggle 6 threads on 8 real cores.

Also just noticed the 9900k is underneath the 9700k by 1.2FPS at 1440p... Even though it has 100MHz higher per core than the 9700k. While within margin of error at 1440p, it's as much as 3.5 FPS at 1080p, which is outside margin of error and I would say is indicative of a pattern. This game simply scales worse with more threads, EVEN if those threads are faster. It seems like the game struggles with juggling upto 6 threads on processors that have more than that, which reduces performance, even if the clock speed and cache is higher. That's obviously bad coding and makes for unreliable testing on CPUs >6t.

TL;DR: Seems to be a bad game for CPU testing at more than 6 threads, since it seems to hamper performance if you go above that, even if there's heavily increased clocks and more cache.

@W1zzard
Either the game shouldn't be included in the test suite, since it clearly shows it's not reliable in showing what CPUs (that have more than 6 threads) perform better than another, or it should be with a disclaimer that certain CPUs (that have more than 6 threads) perform better than those that have 6 threads or less, for seemingly no other reason than poor game code.

 

[Bee9]

"Expensive" is a subjective term -- what Person A considers expensive, Person B may not. While I certainly agree that pairing this 10400F with a $300-$500 Z490 board is absolutely insane, I CAN see the purpose of doing so if the intention is to upgrade to an i7 or i9 in a year or so. People forget that it's much easier to pop in a new CPU, GPU or RAM than it is to switch out a motherboard. So while such scenarios probably don't make much sense to most people here, I can see the sense in it somewhat.

You may have misunderstood my intention or think too much. What I meant by saying expensive is the 500 dollars board Z series.
I voiced my opinion based on US market price elasticity because that what I’m familiar with. Other countries may have different choices.
In this case, the i5 10400f doesn’t provide good value at DDR4 2666 and I’m glad that the title is changed.
Lower price z490 ($150) may have inadequate vrm to chuck on the core i9. That I don’t know for sure, must wait for experts to confirm.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I don't believe it's available yet.

It is widely available in the UK …………………….

Intel Hex Core i5 10400F Core i5 Comet Lake CPU/Processor

Buy from Scan - Intel Core i5 10400F, S 1200, Comet Lake, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 2.9GHz, 4.3GHz Turbo, 12MB Cache, 65W, Retail

www.scan.co.uk

And it is the same price as the 3600 non X

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Gen3 6 Core AM4 CPU/Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler

Buy from Scan - AMD Ryzen 5 3600, AM4, Zen 2, 6 Core, 12 Thread, 3.6GHz, 4.2GHz Turbo, 32MB L3, PCIe 4.0, 65W, with Wraith Stealth Coole

www.scan.co.uk

 

[Bee9]

It is widely available in the UK …………………….

Intel Hex Core i5 10400F Core i5 Comet Lake CPU/Processor

Buy from Scan - Intel Core i5 10400F, S 1200, Comet Lake, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 2.9GHz, 4.3GHz Turbo, 12MB Cache, 65W, Retail

www.scan.co.uk

And it is the same price as the 3600 non X

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Gen3 6 Core AM4 CPU/Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler

Buy from Scan - AMD Ryzen 5 3600, AM4, Zen 2, 6 Core, 12 Thread, 3.6GHz, 4.2GHz Turbo, 32MB L3, PCIe 4.0, 65W, with Wraith Stealth Coole

www.scan.co.uk

Wow, I'm surprised how more expensive those CPUs are when compared to the US pricing.
10400F is no where to be found in the US at this moment and 3600 is consistently $20 cheaper than EU and UK pricing.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Wow, I'm surprised how more expensive those CPUs are when compared to the US pricing.
10400F is no where to be found in the US at this moment and 3600 is consistently $20 cheaper than EU and UK pricing.

Hardware is very expensive over here, more so in recent years, probably down to import tax and VAT.

 

[Daven]

Then I guess all you play is benchmarks because its not my experience. My 3570k became a stutterfest a few years ago.

In all my posts, I said 'latest' quad core and higher. If I'm not mistaken, the 3570k is Ivy Bridge?

 

[Bee9]

Hardware is very expensive over here, more so in recent years, probably down to import tax and VAT.

The value added tax is just an amazing thing, isn't it?
I sometimes can get the 3900x under $380 here depending on the stock. We get stuff much later than the EU but usually at a cheaper price thanks to tax cut.
Many people voice their argument based on US pricing and that quickly becomes invalid when you mentioned EU pricing.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

It is widely available in the UK …………………….

I wonder if it's regulations in that part of the world? That they (Intel) can't release just some of their product stack - in what some might think is a way to maximize profits.

 

[Tatty_Two]

The value added tax is just an amazing thing, isn't it?
I sometimes can get the 3900x under $380 here depending on the stock. We get stuff much later than the EU but usually at a cheaper price thanks to tax cut.
Many people voice their argument based on US pricing and that quickly becomes invalid when you mentioned EU pricing.

Where as, by comparison, the 3900x in the UK averages at £440, at the current exchange rate that comes in roughly around $542!! So related to the topic in hand, in the UK as I said, the 10400F usually goes for £169.99 and the 10600K goes for £279 - £289, I managed to find OEM versions of the 10400F for £149.99 and again OEM version of the 10600K for £239.99 so I bought 3 each of those yesterday and as you would expect both are now sold out.

In answer to the @thebluebumblebee comment..... most likely yes, or they are trying to spread inventory levels...…. in the UK everywhere I have looked no one is stocking the full range, it seems that Intel may cherry pick models for different markets in order to try and maintain some levels of supply in the early stages of release so big gaps in our inventory, like it's really hard to find an i7 or i9 non K version.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Where as, by comparison, the 3900x in the UK averages at £440, at the current exchange rate that comes in roughly around $542!! So related to the topic in hand, in the UK as I said, the 10400F usually goes for £169.99 and the 10600K goes for £279 - £289, I managed to find OEM versions of the 10400F for £149.99 and again OEM version of the 10600K for £239.99 so I bought 3 each of those yesterday and as you would expect both are now sold out.

In answer to the @thebluebumblebee comment..... most likely yes, or they are trying to spread inventory levels...…. in the UK everywhere I have looked no one is stocking the full range, it seems that Intel may cherry pick models for different markets in order to try and maintain some levels of supply in the early stages of release so big gaps in our inventory, like it's really hard to find an i7 or i9 non K version.

The only reliably available 10th gen in the states has been the 10400. 10600k can be found but it goes in and out of stock. 10900k was initially available but sold out in under a week, 10700k seems to be in and out (mostly out) of stock.

Prices seem at a premium for all of the above, at or above msrp, except maybe the 10400.

 

[Bee9]

Where as, by comparison, the 3900x in the UK averages at £440, at the current exchange rate that comes in roughly around $542!! So related to the topic in hand, in the UK as I said, the 10400F usually goes for £169.99 and the 10600K goes for £279 - £289, I managed to find OEM versions of the 10400F for £149.99 and again OEM version of the 10600K for £239.99 so I bought 3 each of those yesterday and as you would expect both are now sold out.

This means a lot. Readers should be aware of the pricing situation. Is the motherboard pricing follow the same pattern? Intel and board makers may have to adjust their pricing in the US to match what AMD has to offer. 20 to 40 US dollars cheaper will be good enough. I believe a Z490 with decent VRM is required to unleash the full potential of the 10400F (DDR4 2666 vs 3200).
Do reviewers at techpowerup take availability and major regional pricing (UK, EU, US) into consideration when making recommendation? I don't see the 10400F as a good buy at least in the US and Australia market.
With the Ryzen 3600 or 3600X platform (board + CPU) runs much cheaper in the US while providing somewhat more room to grow with future generations, it's very difficult to recommend Intel over AMD at any price point at this moment.

The only reliably available 10th gen in the states has been the 10400. 10600k can be found but it goes in and out of stock. 10900k was initially available but sold out in under a week, 10700k seems to be in and out (mostly out) of stock.

Prices seem at a premium for all of the above, at or above msrp, except maybe the 10400.

It's painful to see current stock of the 10th Gen Intel. I wanted to try them out but it's hard to get my hands on. All available is 10400 (without the F) and 10700.

@W1zzard Love, do you have plans to test out the low price Z490 boards?

 

[Vayra86]

In all my posts, I said 'latest' quad core and higher. If I'm not mistaken, the 3570k is Ivy Bridge?

Irrelevant... the fact remains, quads stutter, as you're lacking cores in some games, and that trend is not stopping.

There is absolutely no reason to buy a quad now either because the price for a 6 core has dropped to what we used to pay for quads. Or better. Quad cores are for the simple / casual use now, and light gaming.

 

[Tatty_Two]

This means a lot. Readers should be aware of the pricing situation. Is the motherboard pricing follow the same pattern? Intel and board makers may have to adjust their pricing in the US to match what AMD has to offer. 20 to 40 US dollars cheaper will be good enough. I believe a Z490 with decent VRM is required to unleash the full potential of the 10400F (DDR4 2666 vs 3200).
Do reviewers at techpowerup take availability and major regional pricing (UK, EU, US) into consideration when making recommendation? I don't see the 10400F as a good buy at least in the US and Australia market.
With the Ryzen 3600 or 3600X platform (board + CPU) runs much cheaper in the US while providing somewhat more room to grow with future generations, it's very difficult to recommend Intel over AMD at any price point at this moment.


It's painful to see current stock of the 10th Gen Intel. I wanted to try them out but it's hard to get my hands on. All available is 10400 (without the F) and 10700.

@W1zzard Love, do you have plans to test out the low price Z490 boards?

Firstly, I think AMD fix their CPU prices or at least specify a RRP price range (I may be mistaken but I am sure I have read that) where as Intel "suggest" a RRP, that may account for price fluctuations based on supply & demand. No, over here Z490 motherboard prices appear fixed, when I looked at manufacturers and models, probably 10 boards that interested me in the mid range, every retailer had the boards at an identical price. In terms of Z490 VRM, I think power delivery seems consistent, for example, from what I have seen (mainly MSI and Gigabyte) all but their one super budget model comes with at least a 11 + 1 setup, most with at least a 12+1+1, when you get towards top of the range we are talking 16+1+1..... the thing is, in MSI's gaming range, starting from very low end to solid mid range so...……. MPG Gaming Plus >>> Gaming Edge AC >>> Gaming Carbon ($100+ between lowest and highest) the power delivery on each is the same @ 12+1+1 what is obviously different is the cooling quality and feature set.

 

[cellar door]

And Ryzens can't OC for shit. What's your point?

You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Non X chips are able to OC, it's only the X chips that are near their limit.

 

[Bee9]

In terms of Z490 VRM, I think power delivery seems consistent, for example, from what I have seen (mainly MSI and Gigabyte) all but their one super budget model comes with at least a 11 + 1 setup, most with at least a 12+1+1, when you get towards top of the range we are talking 16+1+1..... the thing is, in MSI's gaming range, starting from very low end to solid mid range so...……. MPG Gaming Plus >>> Gaming Edge AC >>> Gaming Carbon ($100+ between lowest and highest) the power delivery on each is the same @ 12+1+1 what is obviously different is the cooling quality and feature set.

Interesting... I heard some people bashing the "budget" $150 Z490 boards... Hardware Unboxed is one of the names. I know Steve is a decent guy and he brought up solid concern.
I've seen something like 10+1 or lower than that. So that's may be the extreme budget boards you mentioned. Interesting to see how those compare to the lower tier chipset in the 150-200 price range.

 

[RandallFlagg]

This means a lot. Readers should be aware of the pricing situation. Is the motherboard pricing follow the same pattern? Intel and board makers may have to adjust their pricing in the US to match what AMD has to offer. 20 to 40 US dollars cheaper will be good enough. I believe a Z490 with decent VRM is required to unleash the full potential of the 10400F (DDR4 2666 vs 3200).
Do reviewers at techpowerup take availability and major regional pricing (UK, EU, US) into consideration when making recommendation? I don't see the 10400F as a good buy at least in the US and Australia market.
With the Ryzen 3600 or 3600X platform (board + CPU) runs much cheaper in the US while providing somewhat more room to grow with future generations, it's very difficult to recommend Intel over AMD at any price point at this moment.

A lot of this has to do with where the product is made, where it is received, what other trading bloc states it may have passed through, if it is imported or from within trading bloc (like the EU) and so on. The EU, and I would assume post BREXIT GB, have this complex morass of duty taxes and VAT taxes that obscure the reality that there is a tariff hidden in VAT taxes along with Duty taxes hidden what we in the US would call 'sales tax'. It is not one rate for everything.

Honestly the US price is the best arbiter of what the product really costs, because duty taxes are minimal and tariffs almost non existent (except for some items from China).

If your countries prices are way out of whack compared to US prices, I can about guarantee it has nothing to do with the manufacturer targeting your country for price gouging. It has to do with these variable 'sales taxes' which are really targeted tarriffs. This then becomes more of a political issue than anything to do with price gouging from Intel or AMD.