Intel Core i9-13900KS

[AnotherReader]

Yes, I'm aware of its characteristics, but it remains a rebrand of (aka, it is) Intel's 10ESF process. The one used in Raptor Lake is further tweaked to exceed the performance of what was seen in Alder Lake. It's only yet another reason as to why nm's are practically meaningless these days.

Good read: https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/525/...ntels-10nm-switching-to-cobalt-interconnects/

The process names are ridiculous, but when you look at the dimensions, you see that Intel 7 is comparable to TSMC's N7. The foundries resorted to more lying about process names when they fell behind Intel in the dark days of 28 nm. The first process that they lied about was the 14/16 nm node which should have been called 20 nm based upon the previous node being 28 nm.

I think Ryzen was on 4nm already? the new Zen 7040 series APU is 4nm I thought? So why we talking about old tech for?

More marketing names. TSMC's N4 improves logic density by 6% compared to N5; it's N5 with some tweaks and no optical shrink.

N4 is said to provide a small 6% die shrink through “standard cell innovation” and design rule changes that help realize better area efficiency

 

[Dr. Dro]

I think Ryzen was on 4nm already? the new Zen 7040 series APU is 4nm I thought? So why we talking about old tech for?

This processor is built on said "old tech", AMD has a node advantage here, as they are a fabless company. The downside is that they rely on TSMC entirely for their supply chain, from Ryzen and Epyc to Radeon, and we all know where their priority lies, the high-margin server market, then Ryzen and then Radeon, which is the least important to the company.

More marketing names. TSMC's N4 improves logic density by 6% compared to N5; it's N5 with some tweaks and no optical shrink.

Yeah, Ada's using N4 in contrast to RDNA 3's N5 process. I'm not sure this turns out to be a major advantage for Nvidia, but they have surely shown significantly better results with their products thus far.

 

[CyberCT]

I really want to know the undervolting capability of this chip. Being binned, what is it capable of at lower wattages? Both my 11900Ks are undervolted using the later V/F offsets and it's amazing how they can achieve nearly stock performance for less power and heat. There are some videos of undervolted 12900KS chips that perform as the 12900K but use noticeably less power and heat.

Regardless, I'm really impressed with the 7800X3D and perhaps later this year, if I replace the 9700K build (and hopefully AMD irons out any driver bugs or issues at that point). The fact that this AMD CPU beats the 13900KS marginally at performance but massively at power consumption makes it a winner. I'm going to try AMD this time.

 

[trparky]

The downside is that they rely on TSMC entirely for their supply chain, from Ryzen and Epyc to Radeon, and we all know where their priority lies, the high-margin server market, then Ryzen and then Radeon, which is the least important to the company.

The good thing about AMD is that even their server chips use the same chiplets that their Ryzen processors use. The server chips get the best binned chiplets. Basically, it's like this... Epyc -> Threadripper -> Ryzen (first X then non-X SKUs). So, yes... they may put their server chips first but anything that doesn't pass the test to be in a server chip gets put into a Ryzen chip. This makes things so much easier on AMD than with Intel where if a server chip didn't pass binning, into the garbage it goes.

 

[nebulaxis]

This is a 13900k under a u12a, no contact frame. Despite common belief, they are pretty easy to cool cause it's a huge die.

View attachment 292603

Definitely something is wrong here. Stock 13900K should be around 39~40K, stock 13900KS should be around 40~41K. You just outrun 13900KS' score with stock K by using air cooling ? lol. In the other hand, 7600 MHZ with Z690 mobo ? That's another weirdness. Maybe you have %0.1 rare golden components or %99.9 fishy.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Definitely something is wrong here. Stock 13900K should be around 39~40K, stock 13900KS should be around 40~41K. You just outrun 13900KS' score with stock K by using air cooling ? lol. In the other hand, 7600 MHZ with Z690 mobo ? That's another weirdness. Maybe you have %0.1 rare golden components or %99.9 fishy.

He's using a MEG Unify-X, which is MSI's equivalent of the Maximus Apex. That explains the high RAM clocks, it's a 1DPC XOC board. The ACE I have is more or less equivalent to the ROG Extreme (E-ATX) series boards.

 

[fevgatos]

Definitely something is wrong here. Stock 13900K should be around 39~40K, stock 13900KS should be around 40~41K. You just outrun 13900KS' score with stock K by using air cooling ? lol. In the other hand, 7600 MHZ with Z690 mobo ? That's another weirdness. Maybe you have %0.1 rare golden components or %99.9 fishy.

I'm not eagerly in need to convince you, but I was running stock. You can actually see the effective clocks. In that run I had an 85c temperature limit, im pretty certain without the limit the score would have been higher.

Regarding the ram, lot's of z690s can get 7600+ speeds.. Apex, unifyi, unifyx, dark, tachyon, the asrock water oc or whatever it is called....So, what the hell are you talking about? And no,, I don't have a golden sample, it's pretty terrible actually

 

[SL2]

Next-generation CPU, Meteor Lake, should be fabricated on Intel 4 (their 7 nm process).

Sure, but he specifically replied to my Raptor lake refresh post. Meteor lake is a whole different thing.

 

[ir_cow]

Regarding the ram, lot's of z690s can get 7600+ speeds.. Apex, unifyi, unifyx, dark, tachyon, the asrock water oc or whatever it is called....So, what the hell are you talking about? And no,, I don't have a golden sample, it's pretty terrible actually

By a lot you mean a handful of 2-DIMM motherboards lol.

Barely able to get my Z690 Tachyon to 8000. ASRock Z699 Aqua OC couldn't pass 7000. Maybe a bunk MB?

This ASUS Z790 Apex is so easy to hit 8k. Now I want to try the Dark and Tachyon and see if I can pass 8400.

 

[fevgatos]

By a lot you mean a handful of 2-DIMM motherboards lol.

Barely able to get my Z690 Tachyon to 8000. ASRock Z699 Aqua OC couldn't pass 7000. Maybe a bunk MB?

This ASUS Z790 Apex is so easy to hit 8k. Now I want to try the Dark and Tachyon and see if I can pass 8400.

Well my z690 apex couldn't pass 5800 so....

That's how I ended up with the uniseX

 

[Wye]

And that's why we, as enthusiasts, should be demanding that AMD and Intel (more Intel than AMD) should be supporting a socket and chipset for more than two years. That way, in four years, you can do a simple drop-in replacement of your CPU and instantly get another four years. This whole replace the whole system just to replace/upgrade the CPU is why we even have to have this question in the first place.

It is easy to demand. Most humans spend the first 2 decades of their life doing that.
Why don't you try to do it yourself. Come up with solutions instead of just complaining.
You might learn a lot of things along that journey, and maybe you'll realize Intel and AMD have good reasons for this limitation. Or maybe you'll discover a better way to do things. All possible ends are better compared to just sitting there and complaining.

 

[trparky]

You might learn a lot of things along that journey, and maybe you'll realize Intel and AMD have good reasons for this limitation.

$$$

 

[Wye]

$$$

They make CPUs, not motherboards

 

[trparky]

They make CPUs, not motherboards

True. But having to build a whole new platform with a whole new motherboard just to replace a CPU is a little wasteful and makes them no better than Apple. In a day and age where we should be concerned with eWaste, we're just chucking more and more garbage into the landfill. If AMD can make a motherboard last three or four CPU generations? Why can't Intel? Greed.

 

[mäggäri]

True. But having to build a whole new platform with a whole new motherboard just to replace a CPU is a little wasteful and makes them no better than Apple. In a day and age where we should be concerned with eWaste, we're just chucking more and more garbage into the landfill. If AMD can make a motherboard last three or four CPU generations? Why can't Intel? Greed.

Despite it is possible, I would not put 5800X3D in B350 board.

Why AMD can't make 5600X3D or 7600X3D? Greed. AMD hates it's customers. Or make their 1st PCIe 16x + m.2 slot to "become PCIe 5 along CPU upgrade", since those are linked to it. Or even 4.0.

 

[Dr. Dro]

True. But having to build a whole new platform with a whole new motherboard just to replace a CPU is a little wasteful and makes them no better than Apple. In a day and age where we should be concerned with eWaste, we're just chucking more and more garbage into the landfill. If AMD can make a motherboard last three or four CPU generations? Why can't Intel? Greed.

Not sure I'm entirely willing to chalk that for greed as much as keeping it fresh.

It's not like AMD wasn't extremely reluctant in supporting AM4 for as long as they have. In fact, they've come up with lies such as the BIOS ROM capacity and denied updates to X370, including going as far as taking action to prevent nosy companies (AsRock) from supporting Zen 3 on these.

They've only relented on the lie once Alder Lake made their bottom line hurt and the 12400 rendered the 5600X an expensive joke. That interim was a year in which I was forced to sell my Crosshair 6 board and sidegrade to a B550-E which cost me more and other than the dual NVMe slots, wasn't even a better board to begin with.

And don't get me started on the AGESA problems. There's a reason I purchased a i9-13900KS instead of a 7950X. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me. I'll be keeping close tabs on how they treat X670E in a couple of years from now.

Despite it is possible, I would not put 5800X3D in B350 board.

Why AMD can't make 5600X3D or 7600X3D? Greed. AMD hates it's customers. Or make their 1st PCIe 16x + m.2 slot to "become PCIe 5 along CPU upgrade", since those are linked to it. Or even 4.0.

And why not? Wait until you realize B350 and B450 are identical. The same goes for X370 and 470. Convenient blaming of earlier chipset for the AGESA problems that have permeated AM4 for most of its active development don't change that.

Both B350 and X370 run Zen 3 fine and aren't any worse than the rest with an updated AGESA. You're only missing out on PCIe 4.0 which requires B550 or higher anyway.

 

[mäggäri]

Not sure I'm entirely willing to chalk that for greed as much as keeping it fresh.

It's not like AMD wasn't extremely reluctant in supporting AM4 for as long as they have. In fact, they've come up with lies such as the BIOS ROM capacity and denied updates to X370, including going as far as taking action to prevent nosy companies (AsRock) from supporting Zen 3 on these.

They've only relented on the lie once Alder Lake made their bottom line hurt and the 12400 rendered the 5600X an expensive joke. That interim was a year in which I was forced to sell my Crosshair 6 board and sidegrade to a B550-E which cost me more and other than the dual NVMe slots, wasn't even a better board to begin with.

And don't get me started on the AGESA problems. There's a reason I purchased a i9-13900KS instead of a 7950X. Fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me. I'll be keeping close tabs on how they treat X670E in a couple of years from now.



And why not? Wait until you realize B350 and B450 are identical. The same goes for X370 and 470. Convenient blaming of earlier chipset for the AGESA problems that have permeated AM4 for most of its active development don't change that.

Both B350 and X370 run Zen 3 fine and aren't any worse than the rest with an updated AGESA. You're only missing out on PCIe 4.0 which requires B550 or higher anyway.

b550 or x570 if some offers

I like to sell everything as a set, comfy for buyer too. Except 32Gb B-Die, never sold, used multiple years.

B350 didn't catch my eye, since VRMs were quite watered down, but at same time 5800X3D is not power hungry ofc.

 

[Dr. Dro]

b550 or x570 if some offers

I like to sell everything as a set, comfy for buyer too. Except 32Gb B-Die, never sold, used multiple years.

B350 didn't catch my eye, since VRMs were quite watered down, but at same time 5800X3D is not power hungry ofc.

That's the same as you'll find on B450 and A520, VRMs aren't a problem, they're just basic motherboards. Premium motherboards using budget chipset are an anomaly never seen before in the industry which raised prices significantly, and looks like that stuck by with AM5. In a sense, Intel's practice of releasing locked processors at the lower end may have ensured mid-range boards remained affordable.

Regardless, the 5800X3D is arguably the most power efficient of the socket AM4 processors by a long shot, they should run well on cheap motherboards.

 

[Frozoken]

You are right, intel says to use @ 5600, and using above that voids the warranty. Thanks for noting.

Ok use 5200 with amd than you absolute troglodyte

Money no object it would definately be 7950X3D vs 13900K, maybe not KS given the shown £/gain ratio

"Money no object" *proceeds to account for money*

 

[W1zzard]

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