Intel Statement on 13th and 14th Gen Core Instability: Faulty Microcode Causes Excessive Voltages, Fix Out Soon

[trparky]

I know that my confidence in the Intel brand has been shaken.

 

[agent_x007]

The workload absolutely matters, and I think everyone knows that. Using consumer grade hardware for server use isn't going to cause legal problems for Intel.
Server grade hardware is certified for high load 24/7 for x years. Running a private Minecraft server isn't exactly something that causes sustained peak load all the time (but hosting a lot of them for a company may be a lot more). Running a machine 24/7 without a significant load isn't much of a problem, I've been doing that for most of my machines for over a decade, and like many others in the industry I too have a home "server" for files/media/git/building/etc., but it's nothing with sustained high load, if so I would have to choose hardware accordingly.

Why workload doesn't matter :
From what I understand, and from CPU only point of view (because topic) - there is no "time to fail" timeframe.
You can run whatever thing you want, for however long you want (using validated hardware and settings).
The only limitation from Intel side, is warranty period that CPU is guaranteed to work (with replacement option if it doesn't hold up that long).
If you can provide some Intel documents, that state "running X program will decrease your warranty due to CPU wear", or "using this consumer CPU for XYZ task voids your warranty on it", we can get somewhere - otherwise, there is no point.

Again, x86 standard was made for a reason (both from hardware and software perspective).
"Consumer grade" hardware is made to work everywhere, regardless of use case.
"Prosumer" stuff get's extras that are wanted/required by companies (to guarantee whatever they need/want out of the hardware), and simplify process of making Intel allegeable for damages (if something goes wrong on their end).
The former doesn't mean, Intel is immune to hardware failures of their own making on "consumer grade" hardware (which is what current situation is BTW). Process is just more lengthy, and more complicated in such cases.

Issue : Highest frequency on TVB, because of combination for high single core usage + low running temps = high chance of degradation issue due to very high VID requested by CPU itself to make itself "stable" under such conditions.
^This is not "bad use case", it is bad manufacturer practices.
IF manufacturer knows what it's doing, there are no "bad use cases".

 

[phanbuey]

What is going to happen now that the genie is out of the bottle?
- will Intel publish serial numbers of CPUs affected by overvoltage and/or oxidation so that owners could identify them and file RMA?
- will second hand market go completely bonkers, as no buyer will know for sure whether they buy an affected CPU?
- how many online gaming companies will switch to AMD systems?
- will confidence in Intel brand and reliability suffer?
- so many questions...

Im pretty sure that's why Panic Lake... er. Bartlett Lake is all of the sudden releasing. Also the 14901EK (LOL).

"Dont ask questions, here's the new cpu, no ecores, put it in there and don't ask questions"

 

[pressing on]

I know that my confidence in the Intel brand has been shaken.

Yes, Intel have made mistakes. There was an Oxidation issue with an early batch of 13th gen chips in 2023. The issue was identified and corrected, so I don't think there should be any concerns about the quality of its CPUs. Intel did not show as much transparency as it should have done on the Oxidation issue, it should have announced it at the time. Things go wrong with CPUs. The Raptor Lake issues have been corrected by BIOS updates including those with microcode updates and so Intel say only one issue remains which will be resolved with an August BIOS update. Other than that, Lunar Lake is on schedule, Arrow Lake desktop and mobile is on schedule so the latter part of the year may be easier.

 

[529th]

Once damage is done it's irreversible, after market buyers beware

 

[R0H1T]

There was an Oxidation issue with an early batch of 13th gen chips in 2023. The issue was identified and corrected, so I don't think there should be any concerns about the quality of its CPUs. Intel did not show as much transparency as it should have done on the Oxidation issue, it should have announced it at the time. Things go wrong with CPUs. The Raptor Lake issues have been corrected by BIOS updates including those with microcode updates and so Intel say only one issue remains which will be resolved with an August BIOS update.

And you believe all of that? From the same company selling promising you 10nm was fine

 

[phanbuey]

And you believe all of that? From the same company selling promising you 10nm was fine

Nothing to see here guys, everything is fine....

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

Nothing to see here guys, everything is fine....
View attachment 356321

Maybe the root cause is Intel's dosimeter voltage meters only went to 1.35V.............

*tests TVB*

Engineer: Only reads 1.35V boss
Boss: Ship that f*cker.

 

[Hecate91]

There was an Oxidation issue with an early batch of 13th gen chips in 2023. The issue was identified and corrected, so I don't think there should be any concerns about the quality of its CPUs. Intel did not show as much transparency as it should have done on the Oxidation issue, it should have announced it at the time.

IMO, Intel hasn't said enough on the oxidization issue, there needs to be a full recall with serial numbers of affected CPU's.
I would expect a company the size of Intel who owns their own fabs to do this right and fix it as soon as possible, knowing which cpu's were affected.

Things go wrong with CPUs. The Raptor Lake issues have been corrected by BIOS updates including those with microcode updates and so Intel say only one issue remains which will be resolved with an August BIOS update.

Except things like oxidization at the fabrication level, cpu failures after a year, or cpu's failing new out of the box aren't normal things to go wrong.
The BIOS updates aren't a fix for cpu's already degraded, and baseline power limits means lesser than claimed performance. I'm surprised someone hasn't started up a class action yet.
Also we have yet to see if the August BIOS update is really a fix, I personally don't trust Intel on the microcode to be a real fix, just postponing degradation until out of warranty failure.

Other than that, Lunar Lake is on schedule, Arrow Lake desktop and mobile is on schedule so the latter part of the year may be easier.

That is fine for shareholders and OEM's, but not for consumers that have already gotten screwed with potentially defective cpu's, it's even worse for laptop owners as people are experiencing similar problems to desktop cpu's, Intel seems to have ignored that issue and instead blames OEM's.

 

[mkppo]

These are consumer grade chips, not server grade at all.
The entry level server chips are called the E-2400 series, e.g. Xeon E-2488, which is the Xeon part that closely resembles i9-13900K/14900K, except for it lacking aggressive boost and voltage. If they had gone for proper server grade parts, they likely would never have seen these issues.
I must add that several outlets calls W680 boards "server grade", they are not, they are workstation boards. Don't get me wrong, they are good boards, but wouldn't stop the consumer CPUs from aging prematurely.

If we assume these i9s "age" 4-5x faster than expected due to too much voltage, then this would easily explain why people using these as "servers" would see them fail after ~3-6 months. This only tells us that they've gotten away with consumer grade hardware in the past, because CPUs from the past few generations have been very reliable.


We don't know what they did, and until we have evidence we shouldn't speculate.
What we should do instead is to encourage those with contacts within Intel to publicly address this more precisely;
- Which product ranges were affected?
- For how long did this problem happen?
- Was this limited to certain production lines or everything?

I didn't say they are server grade CPU's. But consumer grade CPU's shouldn't degrade anywhere remotely close to what's been happening. My point was these were sold directly by Intel, so they knew full well what they'll be used for. And with the Minecraft servers dying in a couple of months, it just looks bad on Intel that a 2 year old CPU didn't do through internal testing to figure out it's absolutely not cut out for these tasks.

Also as I mentioned earlier, it's pretty common for these game hosting servers to use consumer grade cpu's and Intel were perfectly happy to supply them with such. It's why AMD released EPYC 4004 so surely there's a market and this standard and not atypical, albeit rare compared to the server market as a whole

W680 are workstation, not server. I agree with that.

Also, I'm not speculating. Intel obviously knew about the oxidization, because they fixed it themselves. But they never disclosed it, and there's proof of them denying RMA to many vendors even though they knew full well there's a good chance those chips might have been melons. To release a statement saying there was a case of oxidization in 2023 AFTER third party reviewers are suspecting it just looks dodgy

 

[b1k3rdude]

Intel make no reference to structural degradation in the statement on their website. They only talk about instability, a fault in the algorithm and the microcode update fixing the algorithm. Intel microcode updates are delivered as BIOS updates by their motherboard partners. The 'leading to their structural degradation over time' is an editorial comment.

Well old news now, but there was degridation as a result of the microcode algorythm issue and alongside that there was the and oxidation issue, that so for Intel have stated which batches were effected and over what period...