Is it worth to wait for X870E?

[SIGSEGV]

Honestly, I eagerly wait for X870E motherboards, but after reading many comments about X870E vs X670E, I am just thinking of getting X670E instead.
The biggest considerations are the second-hand (like new) high-end X670E is now more affordable (for instance, Asus C Extreme X670E, like new, selling for EUR 450), and I need many SSD storages to store the large datasets locally.
Do you have any better suggestions?

 

[joemama]

What is your target? If its just a lot of SSD slots, just get a pcie adapter with a X670E board.

 

[JWNoctis]

Do you need USB4? That would eat PCIe lanes that could otherwise have been an extra SSD slot.

 

[Metroid]

Only if there is camm2.

 

[AusWolf]

Do you desperately need USB 4? If you do, then yes. Otherwise, no.

 

[chrcoluk]

Does X870E have more chipset lanes?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

AMD X870E vs X870 vs X670E vs X670 vs B650E vs B650

AMD has announced their latest generation of motherboard chipsets. How do the X870 and X870E compare to the X670 and B650 chipsets?

www.pugetsystems.com

Here's a pretty good comparison.

Do you need usb 4? Yes wait, No don't wait.

Unless you are also waiting for 9000X3D coming out next year apparently.

 

[SIGSEGV]

Thanks for all the feedback.
However, most high-end tiers of X670E lineups have USB4; for instance, ASUS Crosshair Extreme/Taichi/Carbon/Ace already has USB4, but I don't know if it eats one of the PCI lanes.

Unless you are also waiting for 9000X3D coming out next year apparently.

I already bought 9950X for the sake of productivity/workstation.

 

[Carlyle2020hs]

Does X870E have more chipset lanes?

No

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Thanks for all the feedback.
However, most high-end tiers of X670E lineups have USB4; for instance, ASUS Crosshair Extreme/Taichi/Carbon/Ace already has USB4, but I don't know if it eats one of the PCI lanes.



I already bought 9950X for the sake of productivity/workstation.

I'd buy a board with everything you need then although I'd be weary of used boards with bent socket pins etc unless you have a good return policy or buyer protection.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Thanks for all the feedback.
However, most high-end tiers of X670E lineups have USB4; for instance, ASUS Crosshair Extreme/Taichi/Carbon/Ace already has USB4, but I don't know if it eats one of the PCI lanes.

No, not really. Those boards use old Intel Thunderbolt chips on PCIe 3.0 and call it USB4, but those controllers are limited to 32 Gbps vs. 40 Gbps for the ASM4242 USB4 PCIe 4.0 host controller.
Don't get suckered in by those boards.

 

[QyInvoLing]

If I'm at your situation, I'll immediately buy x670e, as USB4 doesn't matter to me. If you're eager to an usb4 port but not owning alotof SSDs, I'd like to recommend Gigabyte B650E AORUS PRO X USB4.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

No, not really. Those boards use old Intel Thunderbolt chips on PCIe 3.0 and call it USB4, but those controllers are limited to 32 Gbps vs. 40 Gbps for the ASM4242 USB4 PCIe 4.0 host controller.
Don't get suckered in by those boards.

Interestingly it specifically states on the asrock Taichi X670E motherboard page 40Gbps with no asterisk.

Same with the X670E ProArt creator.

Although even PCIe 4.0 can only handle 64Gbps I believe so how would you even use both ports simultaneously.....

 

[chrcoluk]

AMD X870E vs X870 vs X670E vs X670 vs B650E vs B650

AMD has announced their latest generation of motherboard chipsets. How do the X870 and X870E compare to the X670 and B650 chipsets?

www.pugetsystems.com

Here's a pretty good comparison.

Do you need usb 4? Yes wait, No don't wait.

Unless you are also waiting for 9000X3D coming out next year apparently.

Thanks so X870E has extra lanes and X870 has less chipset lanes than X670.

Double SATA and USB3.x as well X670 just seems more rounded.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Interestingly it specifically states on the asrock Taichi X670E motherboard page 40Gbps with no asterisk.

Downloads: Thunderbolt(TM) Controller software ver:Rev86_3

Same with the X670E ProArt creator.

2 x USB4® with Intel® JHL8540 USB4® controller ports (2 x USB Type-C®)

Intel® JHL8540 Thunderbolt™ 4 Controller - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® JHL8540 Thunderbolt™ 4 Controller quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

www.intel.com

Although even PCIe 4.0 can only handle 64Gbps I believe so how would you even use both ports simultaneously.....

Well, one at 40 Gbps and one at 20 Gbps for data, or if you use one for display output, at least some of the bandwidth would be from the display interface and not over PCIe.
But you're correct, PCIe 4.0 isn't fast enough for two 40 Gbps ports.

Intel claims 40 Gbps due to 32 Gbps for data plus 8 Gbps for DP Alt mode...

Thanks so X870E has extra lanes and X870 has less chipset lanes than X670.

No, the chipset lanes are identical. You lose four CPU lanes to the ASM4242.

 

[chrcoluk]

No, the chipset lanes are identical. You lose four CPU lanes to the ASM4242.

So you are saying the puget systems article is wrong? That says X670 has 20 lanes, X870 has 12 lanes, and X870E has 20 lanes again, plus a reduction of USB and SATA on X870.

X670 20 gen 4 lanes, 8 SATA ports, 14xUSB
X870E as above
X870 12 gen 4 lanes, 4 SATA ports, 8xUSB.

Its in a post a few posts up.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/chipsets/am5.html

AMD own website matches up with puget. Looks like to me AMD kind of respec'd X870 to a slightly better B chipset.

 

[Assimilator]

Thanks so X870E has extra lanes

No.

X870E is the exact same PCIe 4.0 chipset, and therefore, exact same PCIe lane count as X670E. Same for every other "new" 800-series chipset. It's literally the same pig with new lipstick.

The only difference is that 800-series boards mandate the inclusion of the ASM4242 USB4 controller, which requires 4 lanes of PCIe 4.0. Given that Zen 4 and 5 CPUs have the same lane PCIe lane count, and as already discussed the chipset has the same lane count, the only way to add ASM4242 is to consume 4 of the total PCIe lanes available to the system.

This means that an 800-series board will have 4 fewer lanes available than a comparable 600-series board, which will typically manifest as one fewer M.2 slot (also consumes 4 lanes of PCIe). So AMD gives you USB 4 on one hand, but takes away an M.2 slot on the other. This is not how upgrading to a new platform should go: you're supposed to get more features.

However AMD additionally made the pants-on-head-retarded decision to wire ASM4242 to the PCIe 5.0 CPU instead of the PCIe 4.0 chipset. So instead of losing less valuable chipset lanes, you lose far more valuable CPU lanes. Or to put it more bluntly, instead of losing a PCIe 4.0 M.2 slot, you lose a PCIe 5.0 M.2 slot, which somewhat torpedoes the future-proof-ness of 800-series boards.

Given the continual lack of compelling PCIe 5.0 SSDs, this is not really a disaster. It is, however, absolutely moronic design and decision-making from AMD to build a platform in this way.

So you are saying the puget systems article is wrong?

Yes.

That says X670 has 20 lanes, X870 has 12 lanes, and X870E has 20 lanes again, plus a reduction of USB and SATA on X870.

X670 20 gen 4 lanes, 8 SATA ports, 14xUSB
X870E as above
X870 12 gen 4 lanes, 4 SATA ports, 8xUSB.

Its in a post a few posts up.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/chipsets/am5.html

AMD own website matches up with puget.

Because AMD are dishonest chumps, and Puget copy-pasta'd from AMD without doing the most basic of checks.

X670E/X870E has 20 PCIe 4.0 lanes total, however only 12 of those are usable. Of the 20 total chipset lanes, 4 are reserved for CPU-to-chipset comms, and another 4 are reserved for chipset-to-chipset comms.

 

[chrcoluk]

If you saying puget is wrong then so is AMD, the exact same info is on their website. I am talking about X870 without the E.

The differential isnt just the PCIe lanes either, it is the USB/SATA, looks to me like they have either made an error on their site, or they have basically done a bait and switch. The column specifically states usable lanes, so 20 usable for X870E and 12 usable for X870.

 

[TheLostSwede]

So you are saying the puget systems article is wrong? That says X670 has 20 lanes, X870 has 12 lanes, and X870E has 20 lanes again, plus a reduction of USB and SATA on X870.

That's for the platform as a whole, not the chipset.
The chipset looks like this and always has the same connectivity. The X670, X670E and X870E has two of them, all others one. The low-end chipset has a castrated version.

AMD Zen 4 & Socket AM5 Explained: PCIe Lanes, Chipsets, Connectivity

There has been a fair bit of confusion about AMD's upcoming AM5 platform when it comes to connectivity and we're going to break things down and explain what the difference is between the B650 and X670 boards. We're also going to cover the processor connectivity, since that's an integral part of...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[chrcoluk]

That's for the platform as a whole, not the chipset.
The chipset looks like this and always has the same connectivity. The X670, X670E and X870E has two of them, all others one. The low-end chipset has a castrated version.
View attachment 361868

AMD Zen 4 & Socket AM5 Explained: PCIe Lanes, Chipsets, Connectivity

There has been a fair bit of confusion about AMD's upcoming AM5 platform when it comes to connectivity and we're going to break things down and explain what the difference is between the B650 and X670 boards. We're also going to cover the processor connectivity, since that's an integral part of...

www.techpowerup.com

So you agree with me then that X870 isnt same as X670, X670E and X870E?

The X670, X670E and X870E has two of them, all others one

 

[TheLostSwede]

So you agree with me then that X870 isnt same as X670, X670E and X870E?

It's the "same" as B650E/B650, aka a single chipset. This is well known information.

 

[Assimilator]

The column specifically states usable lanes, so 20 usable for X870E and 12 usable for X870.

And as I've stated before, that column is wrong (or at best, deliberately misleading). It is 12 usable lanes of PCIe 4.0 and 8 usable lanes of PCIe 3.0 for X870E and X670E; Puget summed these to get to 20. But given there are no manufacturers who are going to ship their boards without SATA ports, and PCIe 3.0 lanes themselves are too slow for pretty much anything except SATA, those 8 PCIe 3.0 lanes can pretty much be considered spoken for.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I say, ignore "is it worth the wait" scenarios. Why? Because there will ALWAYS be something newer, better, faster, shinier just around the corner. That may be new CPU support, new RAM, new PCIe, new SATA, new USB, new graphics, a pretty new color.

So I say, if you need something now, buy now. If you don't, then wait until you do then pull the trigger. Just understand the day you get it installed and up and running is the day it will be superseded by something newer, better, faster, shinier.

 

[Dr. Dro]

In my opinion, not really, no, especially if you can get a nice X670E at a good price. AMD now enforces USB 4.0 support as mandatory on X870E but they should be otherwise identical, since most high-end X670E motherboards come with USB 4.0 to some capacity. You may be interested in a few things like Wi-Fi 7 support (I believe most X670Es were released with Wi-Fi 6E adapters), but other than that, you should be good. You can always buy an Wi-Fi 7 card for your motherboard and swap the module out anyway if this is important.

I would try to scoop up a ROG X670E Gene at a nice price if you can find one, if not, you'll do fine with your motherboard of choice. Good luck!

 

[Sarajiel]

I need many SSD storages to store the large datasets locally

Unless you really want to use an external USB4 JBOD, or any other USB4-only device, you might want to check out X670E or even B650E motherboards that provide four or more M.2 slots. Without the USB4 controller, you typically get an additional M.2 connected to the CPU, as should be obvious by now.
If internal SATA SSDs are still a thing for you, most boards only come with 4 SATA ports. However, you could easily add more SATA ports via PCIe x1 or x4 cards. These are typically ~€20 to ~€40.

Depending on your other demands, look at the B650E Aorus Master for a "budget" board that allows 4x Gen5 M.2 via bifurcation.
Most other boards for high storage needs are typically €400 or above. MSI's X670E Carbon WIFI, Asus' ProArt X670E-Creator or Crosshair X670E Hero offer support for 4x M.2s, but two of them are connected via the chipset. However, you could bifurcate the x16 PCIe slot into x8+x8 for a second GPU, an HBA or any other x8 PCIe card as needed.

ASUS Crosshair Extreme/Taichi/Carbon/Ace already has USB4, but I don't know if it eats one of the PCI lanes.

Just to be clear, the Intel Maple Ridge controller that is used for USB4/TB4 on X670E boards, is connected via the chipset and uses 4 lanes.

I would try to scoop up a ROG X670E Gene at a nice price if you can find one

Sadly, these are pretty much gone in Europe. You can maybe get one above the previous MSRP, if you find a retailer that still has a few.