Is this Sound card Better than mine?

Athlonite · Oct 27, 2022

mclaren85 said:
Ok you won, I will buy a 2+1 speaker system. Do you think Edifier is a good brand?

for what you want yes as I said in recent years they've really pulled finger and are producing some really nice kit for not alot of money

8tyone · Oct 27, 2022

mclaren85 said:
Ok you won, I will buy a 2+1 speaker system. Do you think Edifier is a good brand?

Do you have access to Swans speakers in your country? My friend had a Swans M50, he really liked it over the AltecLansing MX5021 he had earlier.

Bill_Bright · Oct 27, 2022

TheDeeGee said:
Depends on ones headphones.

Nah! Okay - if compared to a budget 2.1 set of computer speakers where all the electronics is included in the subwoofer and price, then sure, a nice set of headphones will likely sound better.

However... ...first, no headphones can ever reproduce music or sound effects anywhere close to that of quality loudspeaker systems. Simple laws of physics does not allow such tiny drivers to move that much air. Have you ever "felt" a big bass drum "pound" on your chest through a set of headphones? Of course not. Yet that experience is certainly a big part of listening to original (live) content.

Yes, no argument that a quality set of headphones can reproduce great sound. And they even have great entertainment value listening to music. But is the same as listening to the band up on the stage or in the studio? No.

And when it comes to gaming, for the vast majority of the time, the sound "effects" are (1), just that: "effects" and (2) the audio is secondary to what's happening on the monitor(s).

TheDeeGee said:
My AKG K601 sounds freakin' aweful on my onboard from 2021 (flat, shallow and soulless). It's why i still use my superiour Sound Blaster ZXR from 2013, and will do so for many years to come.

Second, and sorry, but you are missing the point and meaning of the word "audiophile". Besides the point a one-off anecdotal example does not render the whole point moot, just because a set of headphones or speakers sound great, that does NOT mean they are faithfully reproducing the sound as originally produced by the artist.

And in gaming in particular, while some of the sounds may be "sampled" from real sounds, many are simply simulated - that is, not real.

And I never said or implied that headphones cannot sound great. Nor did I ever say that "all" integrated sound is excellent.

evernessince said:
You are vastly over-complicating things.

Not at all. If anything, I simplified things.

evernessince said:
I'd highly disagree that Audio isn't that important either.

You really need to actually read what I said (and what you quoted, no less

) before you state you disagree.

I never ever said audio isn't important.

evernessince said:
a VRZ Model One. $350 gets you 95% of the performance of a much more expensive audiophile setup.

95%? Sorry but that is nonsense! Total nonsense. Are they excellent headphones? Absolutely! No disputing that!!!

But can they come close to a "budget" pair of B&W 706 S3 speakers? No way! Please, dude. Don't pretend $350 headphones can match a decent set of loudspeakers, a "cheap" SVS powered LFE/Sub, and an "economical" Denon receiver.

evernessince · Oct 27, 2022

Bill_Bright said:
95%? Sorry but that is nonsense! Total nonsense. Are they excellent headphones? Absolutely! No disputing that!!!

But can they come close to a "budget" pair of B&W 706 S3 speakers? No way! Please, dude. Don't pretend $350 headphones can match a decent set of loudspeakers, a "cheap" SVS powered LFE/Sub, and an "economical" Denon receiver.

I would have said the same thing as well before I tried them out.

You can go to the headfi forum thread for those headphones and see audio engineers talk about demoing them to artists and other engineers and I can tell you in advance the reviews are glowing.

The VZR model one utilizes a meta-material based acoustic lens to shape audio waves to hit specific parts of the ears to emulate the way sounds hits your ears naturally. You get the same effect with speakers.

They are something best experienced to understand.

Bill_Bright · Oct 27, 2022

We clearly are not communicating. And I've been trying very hard, but you don't seem to be listening. So congrats - you outlasted my patience.

I have said repeatedly they are excellent headphones but you continue arguing as though I am saying otherwise.

I am not, BTW, but since you seriously think $350 headphones can compete with those B&W being driven by a quality amp, along with that SVS sub, and refuse to admit otherwise, I see no reason to continue on.

Have a good day.

Operandi · Oct 27, 2022

The OP stated they are mostly looking at music playback so people should really stop fixating on gaming and exclusively speakers so headphone comparisons are not particularly useful.

mclaren85 said:
Ok you won, I will buy a 2+1 speaker system. Do you think Edifier is a good brand?

You mean a 2.1 set? I would suggest a two channel (2.0) would be better if you have the room on your desk unless you listen to a lot bass heavy music. ELAC Debut 2.0 B5.2 paired with a small class D amp like a Topping PA3S would be a good combo, subwoofer can be added later.

Otherwise if you don't want separate components or won't be upgrading things for 2.1 (and powered 2.0) Edifier seem to be pretty legit despite not really getting much in the way of review press. The only thing I don't like about them is they often use non-standard cables to connect the speakers together and sometimes those cables are fixed on one side which can be a problem for length or if the cable gets damaged.

qubit · Oct 27, 2022

Audio quality to some extent is subjective. I think you should buy the card from somewhere like Amazon where you can return it easily and decide for yourself. It's likely to sound different to your onboard for sure.

Note that if you're getting a lot of digital hashing noise from the onboard, then this could fix it and would be worth it for that alone.

In my case, my first Creative X-Fi card sounded amazing, especially compared to the Realtek onboard and the budget Creative I had in there at the time. Note, I switched off all the special effects when comparing. I use a later version to this day and the effects are still switched off, although I've played around with them a lot over the years.

mclaren85 · Oct 27, 2022

Operandi said:
You mean a 2.1 set?

Yes, and I do love bass. Some claim creative gigaworks t40 has powerful bass without a sub-woofer with its proprietary technology. Don't know if it's true, though.

claes · Oct 27, 2022

Bill_Bright said:
We clearly are not communicating. And I've been trying very hard, but you don't seem to be listening. So congrats - you outlasted my patience.

I have said repeatedly they are excellent headphones but you continue arguing as though I am saying otherwise. I am not, BTW, but since you seriously think $350 headphones can compete with those B&W being driven by a quality amp, along with that SVS sub, and refuse to admit otherwise, I see no reason to continue on.

Have a good day.

Just FYI, you took a post about how amplification is needed to drive higher impedance components and turned it into a speakers vs headphones debate.

evernessince · Oct 27, 2022

Bill_Bright said:
We clearly are not communicating. And I've been trying very hard, but you don't seem to be listening. So congrats - you outlasted my patience.

I have said repeatedly they are excellent headphones but you continue arguing as though I am saying otherwise. I am not, BTW, but since you seriously think $350 headphones can compete with those B&W being driven by a quality amp, along with that SVS sub, and refuse to admit otherwise, I see no reason to continue on.

Have a good day.

I said they will get you 95% of the way there (which they will). All top end audiophile equipment is over that last few percentage.

It's not me refusing to admit something, it's that you aren't reading what I'm saying.

I digress, this conversation is off topic and clearly pointless.

P4-630 · Oct 27, 2022

Edifier computer speakers

Computer Speakers | Edifier -【Edifier】

Whatever love playing music, games or videos on your computer, Edifier computer speakers could give you best choise.

www.edifier.com

dogwitch · Oct 27, 2022

for 98% of people. on board will do fine. last few percent is audio creators and high end audiophiles.

Operandi · Oct 28, 2022

mclaren85 said:
Yes, and I do love bass. Some claim creative gigaworks t40 has powerful bass without a sub-woofer with its proprietary technology. Don't know if it's true, though.

Usually when you read "proprietary technology" you can just translate to that to "clever marketing". They do list a response down to 50Hz is pretty respectable but they don't state if thats an F3, F6, or F10 so its hard to say really but I'd be skeptical given their size and the drivers used.

I would suggest you want a two-way with a 5.25" woofer if you go 2.0, or go with a 2.1 like one of the many Edifiers. Going 2.0 (passive or powered) will give you an upgrade path and the option to expand but will be more components to source and configure. Going the 2.1 route will be simpler and easier to setup but no path to upgrade so what you have is it unless you start over.

caroline! · Oct 28, 2022

mclaren85 said:
Ok you won, I will buy a 2+1 speaker system. Do you think Edifier is a good brand?

Using the S350DB from them right now, quality is more than enough for me and definitely a great upgrade from the cheap USB ones I had.

thewan · Oct 28, 2022

As your primary audio source of entertainment is music, an external USB DAC would be more beneficial than any internal PCIE based sound card. This is because the ESS SABRE DAC on your motherboard is technically superior to all with the exception of maybe the highest end internal sound cards DACs. The creative sound card may have better effects for gaming and movie watching, but it will not sound better for pure music.

Although MSI implementation of its ESS SABRE DAC may not be the best, the differences will be minor if none when compared to internal sound cards. In fact it maybe a regression, the MSI will simply sound superior to your internal sound card, especially for music.

P4-630 · Oct 28, 2022

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-Theater-Amplifier-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B072635J3H/

Passive speaker upgrade possible.
As option you can connect a separate subwoofer.

mclaren85 · Oct 28, 2022

thewan said:
As your primary audio source of entertainment is music, an external USB DAC would be more beneficial than any internal PCIE based sound card. This is because the ESS SABRE DAC on your motherboard is technically superior to all with the exception of maybe the highest end internal sound cards DACs. The creative sound card may have better effects for gaming and movie watching, but it will not sound better for pure music.

Although MSI implementation of its ESS SABRE DAC may not be the best, the differences will be minor if none when compared to internal sound cards. In fact it maybe a regression, the MSI will simply sound superior to your internal sound card, especially for music.

Tha'ts one of the perfect explanations. Thank you!

P4-630 · Oct 28, 2022

@mclaren85 , so what did you decide?

Operandi · Oct 28, 2022

P4-630 said:
https://www.amazon.com/Denon-Theater-Amplifier-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B072635J3H/

Passive speaker upgrade possible.
As option you can connect a separate subwoofer.

Looks like an incredibly low value for $500; not much power from a unknown amplifier, speakers are complete unknown (but look very cheap), and bunch of pretty useless features in 2022 (CD player and FM tuner).

$100-$200 will get you a very impressive class D from like this SMSL which uses a quality Infineon chipset and has all the features you need including a sub out. Then you have another $300-$350 left to pair it up with whatever speaker you like.

mclaren85 · Oct 28, 2022

P4-630 said:
@mclaren85 , so what did you decide?

I've decided not to buy any peripherals (sound card etc.) until the next upgrade. Currently I'm using AM4 socket..

But I think I should buy a good 2.1 speaker.

P4-630 · Oct 28, 2022

Operandi said:
Looks like an incredibly low value for $500; not much power from a unknown amplifier, speakers are complete unknown (but look very cheap), and bunch of pretty useless features in 2022 (CD player and FM tuner).

$100-$200 will get you a very impressive class D from like this SMSL which uses a quality Infineon chipset and has all the features you need including a sub out. Then you have another $300-$350 left to pair it up with whatever speaker you like.

At first I almost bought a 2.1 Edifier set but glad I didn't...
I just show there are other options as well, and Denon is a good brand though...
As I mentioned before you can buy different speakers for it and you can connect a separate sub.

I bought myself a Panasonic set recently, imo it's nice to have a CD player and radio DAB+ and FM as well...

kozad · Oct 30, 2022

IMHO - pick up a Creative G6, it's what I'm using and I love it. It's a solid USB DAC. That card in your OP is old af - with a USB DAC you'll have several benefits: works on any OS with basic USB DAC support, doesn't take up a PCIe slot, one less thing in the case, can be unplugged and used with other PCs or consoles, is outside of the case and thus isolated from EM interference from the PC itself.

If you do switch, be sure to remove the drivers from the old DAC and disable it in BIOS to save yourself some headaches unless you actually intend to use it for something.

Athlonite · Oct 31, 2022

kozad said:
IMHO - pick up a Creative G6, it's what I'm using and I love it. It's a solid USB DAC. That card in your OP is old af - with a USB DAC you'll have several benefits: works on any OS with basic USB DAC support, doesn't take up a PCIe slot, one less thing in the case, can be unplugged and used with other PCs or consoles, is outside of the case and thus isolated from EM interference from the PC itself.

If you do switch, be sure to remove the drivers from the old DAC and disable it in BIOS to save yourself some headaches unless you actually intend to use it for something.

Why buy an extra DAC when his onboard comes with one built in all he needs is a decent set of speakers and he'll be fine

MrBeasterer · Oct 31, 2022

For speakers, I get the best sound out of Audiotehnika 20cm+ drivers made for close volume inside enclosures with open volume and bass reflex. This gets proper dynamics. For Amp I use Onkyo because of the built in processing and general audio quality.

Even though the sound quality is impressive, I do not use the system often due to the fact that to be able to enjoiy it, the neighbors will also "enjoy it".

So eventually I realized that for personal enjoyment, the latest bluetooth enabled headphones will be best.

For sound enhancements I use FxSound General profile.

For USB DAC I use Creative G1 with 20$ headphones Zalman where I cut off the microphone with pliers to make them look kinda like studio headphones.

So my general advice is do not buy anything at all just use what you have + fxsound.

mclaren85 · May 7, 2023

For those who wonder what I did.. Well I decided to stick to my onboard audio for now!

System Name	Cumquat 2021
Processor	AMD RyZen R7 7800X3D
Motherboard	Asus Strix X670E - E Gaming WIFI
Cooling	Deep Cool LT720 + CM MasterGel Pro TP + Lian Li Uni Fan V2
Memory	32GB GSkill Trident Z5 Neo 6000
Video Card(s)	PowerColor HellHound RX7800XT 2550cclk/2450mclk
Storage	1x Adata SX8200PRO NVMe 1TB gen3 x4 1X Samsung 980 Pro NVMe Gen 4 x4 1TB, 12TB of HDD Storage
Display(s)	AOC 24G2 IPS 144Hz FreeSync Premium 1920x1080p
Case	Lian Li O11D XL ROG edition
Audio Device(s)	RX7800XT via HDMI + Pioneer VSX-531 amp Technics 100W 5.1 Speaker set
Power Supply	EVGA 1000W G5 Gold
Mouse	Logitech G502 Proteus Core Wired
Keyboard	Logitech G915 Wireless
Software	Windows 11 X64 PRO (build 24H2)
Benchmark Scores	it sucks even more less now ;)

System Name	myLastOne
Processor	Intel Core i7 12700F @ PL1=PL2=150 Watts
Motherboard	MSI B660M MAG Mortar
Cooling	Deepcool AK400 + CM Sickleflow 120mm (Push\|Pull)
Memory	2x 16GB Crucial Ballistix 3600MHz 16-18-18-38
Video Card(s)	Asus TUF RTX 3060 Ti Gaming OC
Storage	TeamGroup MP33 Pro M2 1TB + (1+2)TB Seagate + 2TB WD
Display(s)	BenQ EW2775ZH
Case	CM Elite 371 USB3 With Arctic F14 (Side+Front) + Arctic Bionix F120 (Back) + CM 120mm (Top)
Audio Device(s)	Realtek ALC 1200 + Swans D1010-IV
Power Supply	MSI MPG A750GF
Mouse	Logitech G102 LightSync
Keyboard	Logitech G100
VR HMD	None
Software	Windows 11 PRO

System Name	Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor	Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling	Quality Fractal Design Define R4 case, 2 x FD 140mm fans, CM Hyper 212 EVO HSF
Memory	32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s)	EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s)	Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case	Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse	Logitech M190
Keyboard	Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software	W10 Pro 64-bit

Processor	Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard	ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory	32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage	P5800X 1.6TB 4x 15.36TB Micron 9300 Pro 4x WD Black 8TB M.2
Display(s)	Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case	Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s)	JDS Element IV, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse	PMM P-305
Keyboard	Wooting HE60
VR HMD	Valve Index
Software	Win 10

System Name	Brightworks Systems BWS-6 E-IV
Processor	Intel Core i5-6600 @ 3.9GHz
Motherboard	Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 Rev 1.0
Cooling	Quality Fractal Design Define R4 case, 2 x FD 140mm fans, CM Hyper 212 EVO HSF
Memory	32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3000 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s)	EVGA GEForce GTX 1050Ti 4Gb GDDR5
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB SSD, Samsung 860 Evo 500GB SSD
Display(s)	Samsung S24E650BW LED x 2
Case	Fractal Design Define R4
Power Supply	EVGA Supernova 550W G2 Gold
Mouse	Logitech M190
Keyboard	Microsoft Wireless Comfort 5050
Software	W10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	Quantumville™
Processor	Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard	Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling	Noctua NH-D14
Memory	16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage	Samsung 850 Pro 256GB \| WD Black 4TB \| WD Blue 6TB
Display(s)	ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) \| Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case	Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s)	Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply	Corsair AX1600i
Mouse	Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard	Yes
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	MSI-MEG
Processor	AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
Motherboard	MSI MEG X570S ACE MAX
Cooling	AMD Wraith Prism + Thermal Grizzly
Memory	32 GB
Video Card(s)	MSI Suprim X RTX 3080
Storage	500 GB MSI Spatium nvme + 500 GB WD nvme + 2 TB Seagate HDD + 2 TB Seagate HDD
Display(s)	27" LG 144HZ 2K ULTRAGEAR
Case	MSI MPG Velox Airflow 100P
Audio Device(s)	Philips
Power Supply	Seasonic 750W 80+ Gold
Mouse	HP OMEN REACTOR
Keyboard	Corsair K68
Software	Windows10 LTSC 64 bit

System Name	boomer--->zoomer not your typical millenial build
Processor	i5-760 @ 3.8ghz + turbo ~goes wayyyyyyyyy fast cuz turboooooz~
Motherboard	P55-GD80 ~best motherboard ever designed~
Cooling	NH-D15 ~double stack thot twerk all day~
Memory	16GB Crucial Ballistix LP ~memory gone AWOL~
Video Card(s)	MSI GTX 970 ~~GOLDEN EDITION~~ RAWRRRRRR
Storage	500GB Samsung 850 Evo (OS X, *nix), 128GB Samsung 840 Pro (W10 Pro), 1TB SpinPoint F3 ~best in class
Display(s)	ASUS VW246H ~best 24" you've seen FULL HD 1O80PP SLAPS~
Case	FT02-W ~the W stands for white but it's brushed aluminum except for the disgusting ODD bays; cries
Audio Device(s)	A LOT
Power Supply	850W EVGA SuperNova G2 ~hot fire like champagne~
Mouse	CM Spawn ~cmcz R c00l seth mcfarlane darawss~
Keyboard	CM QF Rapid - Browns ~fastrrr kees for fstr teens~
Software	integrated into the chassis
Benchmark Scores	9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

System Name	AlderLake
Processor	Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz
Motherboard	Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master
Cooling	Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans
Memory	32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MT/s CL36
Video Card(s)	MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio
Storage	Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2
Display(s)	23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p
Case	Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window
Audio Device(s)	Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse	Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless
Keyboard	RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless
Software	Windows 11
Benchmark Scores	Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock

System Name	heat
Processor	2990wx
Motherboard	MSI X399 SLI PLUS ATX
Cooling	Thermaltake Floe Riing RGB 360 TT Premium Edition 42.34 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Memory	128gb
Video Card(s)	2 2080s
Storage	100 tb
Case	Asus TUF Gaming GT501 ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply	1200 cosair plat

Processor	Threadripper 3955WX
Motherboard	M12SWA-TF
Cooling	Arctic Freezer 4U SP3
Memory	G.Skill Trident Z DDR4-3733 (2x8GB)
Video Card(s)	5700XT + 3x RX 590
Storage	A lot
Display(s)	ViewSonic G225fB
Case	Corsair 760T
Audio Device(s)	Sound Blaster Z SE
Power Supply	be quiet! DPP12 1500W
Keyboard	IBM F122
Software	10 LTSC

System Name	Uzuki Toune
Processor	AMD RYZEN 7 7700X (ASUS PBO 90C Mode)
Motherboard	Asus ROG Strix X670E-E Gaming WIFI
Cooling	Thermalright Frostspirit 140 White V3 ARGB
Memory	32GB DDR6000 CL36 Kingston (EXPO)(16GBx2)
Video Card(s)	Zotac GTX 1050TI
Storage	2TB Kingston KC3000 + 1TB Crucial P2 + 480GB Samsung Evo 850 + 480GB Kingston A400
Display(s)	Dell U2723QE + Philips 221V8 (Portrait)
Case	NZXT H510
Audio Device(s)	Auzen X-FI Forte + Onboard Realtek 4080 -> Creative Gigaworks T40II
Power Supply	EVGA G+ 650W
Mouse	Logitech MX Master 3 (Work) & G103 (Play)
Keyboard	iRocks K71M
Software	Windows 11 Professional

System Name	KOZAD
Processor	Ryzen 7 9800X3D
Motherboard	X870E Aorus Elite
Cooling	Deepcool LT720
Memory	64GB Trident Z Neo 6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	RX 7900 XTX
Storage	Samsung 990 Pro 2TB
Display(s)	CORSAIR XENEON 32QHD165
Case	Lian Li O11 Vision
Audio Device(s)	Sound Blaster Katana V2 \| Blue Yeti
Power Supply	EVGA 1000W
Mouse	Logitech MX Vertical
Keyboard	Logitech G915X TKL
Software	Windows 11 Pro x64

System Name	M.S.I. Flagship Laptop.
Processor	Intel
Motherboard	Overheating
Cooling	Inadequate
Memory	32G never enough
Video Card(s)	Overheating 3070
Storage	Overheating 3TB
Display(s)	Never enough Hz but at least better than retina
Case	Overheating
Audio Device(s)	Bloatwared Intel/Realtek
Power Supply	Not enough !!!
Mouse	BEST IN THE WORLD Glitching like hell?!
Keyboard	Best in the world, but not for typing.
Software	God help me.
Benchmark Scores	NEVER ENOUGH !!!

Is this Sound card Better than mine?

Overclocked quantum bit