Lexar NQ710 (yes not NM710, NQ710) 2TB NAND Package

[DaveLT]

Sez RA74QAA1442 512G

So is it micron or YMTC? I kind of thought it *may* be back to Micron due to YMTC's issues but i would like to hear others opinion to those who can decrypt their flash model numbers
If its micron at the very least they rebadged to another drive name instead of stealth swapping NAND flash like the others

 

[lexluthermiester]

YMTC. Based on that package model number, that is likely QLC based NAND and should be avoided as a long-term OS drive.

No Micron products carry the "longsys" package name.

 

[DaveLT]

YMTC. Based on that package model number, that is likely QLC based NAND and should be avoided as a long-term OS drive.

No Micron products carry the "longsys" package name.

It's TLC. Definitely TLC. Its performance that's very clearly TLC, I still have the NM710 around and even when NQ710 is hammered I don't get the same horrible speed or response that **DRAMLESS* QLC drives have

NM800 did and still does carry longsys package name.

 

[SPDIF]

That's maybe a question for @GabrielLP14

 

[lexluthermiester]

It's TLC. Definitely TLC. Its performance that's very clearly TLC

QLC setup in quad channel can be very fast, some of the latest drives have proven that. Speed is not the deciding factor.

 

[DaveLT]

QLC setup in quad channel can be very fast, some of the latest drives have proven that. Speed is not the deciding factor.

So? This isn't QLC, there are very obvious signs of a QLC drive and besides a DRAMLESS QLC is absolutely not a speed demon

Regardless of how many channels there are in a dramless QLC, it still isn't particularly fast
In case you aren't aware, a QLC dramless quad channel would perform like that

Bought an SSD that ended up being QLC, should I keep it?

TLDR: To any current or former owners of a Crucial P3 Plus or Corsair MP600 Core XT, what do (or did) you think about them? So, I recently bought a 4TB Fanxiang S660 to use as my game drive in my main system. I chose this drive because I had an excellent experience with the 2TB version...

www.techpowerup.com

In fact ironically enough you replied on that thread

 

[Dr. Dro]

Modern DRAMless controllers aren't by default garbage because of HMB. I wasn't able to find the exact model of NAND this drive has, but whether it is TLC or QLC should matter little, even being QLC it's likely to outlive your machine. Don't worry about it. Just enjoy your system.

 

[DaveLT]

Modern DRAMless controllers aren't by default garbage because of HMB. I wasn't able to find the exact model of NAND this drive has, but whether it is TLC or QLC should matter little, even being QLC it's likely to outlive your machine. Don't worry about it. Just enjoy your system.

It actually is for a customer, anyway, I wrote a full disk slam and I saw over 600mb/s

The same hardware and *maybe* the same NAND would be 70-168mb/s (Fanxiang S660 4TB or HP FX700 2TB)

 

[lexluthermiester]

So? This isn't QLC, there are very obvious signs of a QLC drive and besides a DRAMLESS QLC is absolutely not a speed demon

I'm not going to debate this point. Your original question was whether or not that SSD was Micron or YMTC based NAND. It is not Micron.

A bit of googling showed that Longsys bought the Lexar brand from Micron in 2017.
https://www.longsys.com/about-longsys/
So that NAND seems to be produced by the parent company and marketed by the Lexar brand.

 

[DaveLT]

I'm not going to debate this point. Your original question was whether or not that SSD was Micron or YMTC based NAND. It is not Micron.

A bit of googling showed that Longsys bought the Lexar brand from Micron in 2017.
https://www.longsys.com/about-longsys/
So that NAND seems to be produced by the parent company and marketed by the Lexar brand.

And then you said it's QLC, it isn't.
Lexar still continues to use Micron Nand at the lower end and the NM800 is way past acquisition, but still uses Micron B47R.

Even if it's YMTC, longsys has always been packaging micron and later on YMTC.
In fact NM620 uses Micron Nand. Still being sold with nm620. I know because I sell lexar drives and have checked their packages

 

[lexluthermiester]

And then you said it's QLC, it isn't.

You don't and can't know that otherwise you wouldn't be here asking questions.

Lexar still continues to use Micron Nand at the lower end and the NM800 is way past acquisition, but still uses Micron B47R.

Yes, but that NAND has Micron's name on it, not longsys.

I know because I sell lexar drives and have checked their packages

Ok, then why are you here asking if you already know?

 

[DaveLT]

You don't and can't know that otherwise you wouldn't be here asking questions.


Yes, but that NAND has Micron's name on it, not longsys.


Ok, then why are you here asking if you already know?

I do know because I've tested them? Why are you so adamant that it's QLC? Have a personal opinion against Chinese firms?
Like, what does 1.5GB/s post SLC say about QLC? Look at the fanxiang S660 4tb and HP FX700 2tb then look back!

My NM800 has longsys on it not micron. But it's still micron and.

I'm asking because I'm unsure if it's micron or longsys. I was told by a source Longsys is switching back to micron due to issues with YMTC and they still source micron Nand anyway

 

[lexluthermiester]

Why are you so adamant that it's QLC? Have a personal opinion against Chinese firms?

No, model numbers. Dead giveaway.

My NM800 has longsys on it not micron. But it's still micron and.

Correct. Micron does not allow and specifically forbids their memory products from being rebranded.

It might not be YMTC, but it is most definitely not Micron.

 

[GabrielLP14]

That Lexar NQ710 uses a config i haven't seen yet.
MaxioTech MAP1602 + Micron N48R 176-Layers QLC (Maybe FortisFlash instead of the MediaGrade Flash)

 

[DaveLT]

That Lexar NQ710 uses a config i haven't seen yet.
MaxioTech MAP1602 + Micron N48R 176-Layers QLC (Maybe FortisFlash instead of the MediaGrade Flash)

I only noticed it was QLC earlier today so I accept my error but the performance is actually good.
Given the current times, it being 40$ less than NM790 is a price my customers are willing to pay

 

[lexluthermiester]

MaxioTech MAP1602 + Micron N48R 176-Layers QLC (Maybe FortisFlash instead of the MediaGrade Flash)

So Micron has started allowing rebranding of their NAND?

but the performance is actually good.

Multi-channeling of NAND chips(effective RAID for NAND) is a cheap and easy way to get otherwise slow NAND to perform better as a group.

 

[Knight47]

Not sure why nobody posted this: http://vlo.name:3000/ssdtool/ Run the Maxio nvme flash id

 

[LabRat 891]

I only noticed it was QLC earlier today so I accept my error but the performance is actually good.
Given the current times, it being 40$ less than NM790 is a price my customers are willing to pay

The Solidigm (Intel->SK Hynix) P41 Plus DRAMless QLC drives are surprisingly snappy too.

Solidigm P41 Plus 2TB SSD Review - KitGuru

Late last year we took a look at the 1TB version of Solidigm's entry-level Gen 4 SSD, the P41 Plus.

www.kitguru.net

Speaking towards QLC, generally:
At least the 2 models of QLC I've played with (Sabrent Q4, P41+) around 2/3-3/4 full performance tanked. After some research, that seems to be a VERY common 'thing' with QLC drives. (IIRC, even moreso w/ DRAMless.) I accepted the shortcomings, and eventually migrated those drives to my x1 4.0 slots as game/program drives.

Read the detailed specs, and know warranty length. QLC drives absolutely die at a higher rate, for reasons beyond mere write endurance.
That said, I've 'cooked' 1x TLC PM963(?) drive, 2x 16GB M10 Optanes; ESD'd/shorted 1x 16GB Optane; and had one P1600X 118GB Optane fail w/o clear reason (RMA in-process).
Yet, I currently own and use 3 QLC NVMe drives (1x used, from a RAID array), and haven't had a bad diceroll, yet [*knocks on wood*]

 

[DaveLT]

So Micron has started allowing rebranding of their NAND?


Multi-channeling of NAND chips(effective RAID for NAND) is a cheap and easy way to get otherwise slow NAND to perform better as a group.

So does fanxiang S660 4TB and HP FX700 2TB.
Still slow! Note : they use the *SAME* controller

Not sure why nobody posted this: http://vlo.name:3000/ssdtool/ Run the Maxio nvme flash id

Thanks. I already sent the PC to my customer I'll try it on future maxio drives

The Solidigm (Intel->SK Hynix) P41 Plus DRAMless QLC drives are surprisingly snappy too.

Solidigm P41 Plus 2TB SSD Review - KitGuru

Late last year we took a look at the 1TB version of Solidigm's entry-level Gen 4 SSD, the P41 Plus.

www.kitguru.net

Speaking towards QLC, generally:
At least the 2 models of QLC I've played with (Sabrent Q4, P41+) around 2/3-3/4 full performance tanked. After some research, that seems to be a VERY common 'thing' with QLC drives. (IIRC, even moreso w/ DRAMless.) I accepted the shortcomings, and eventually migrated those drives to my x1 4.0 slots as game/program drives.

Read the detailed specs, and know warranty length. QLC drives absolutely die at a higher rate, for reasons beyond mere write endurance.
That said, I've 'cooked' 1x TLC PM963(?) drive, 2x 16GB M10 Optanes; ESD'd/shorted 1x 16GB Optane; and had one P1600X 118GB Optane fail w/o clear reason (RMA in-process).
Yet, I currently own and use 3 QLC NVMe drives (1x used, from a RAID array), and haven't had a bad diceroll, yet [*knocks on wood*]

I am very well aware. But the surprise is that it did 1.5GB/s averaged across the whole drive even after I filled it up. Odd for a dramless drive!
Warranty is still 5 years but I heard from my supplier that it's a lottery whether it's TLC or QLC. As to why NQ exists... I can't say anything

I've yet to cook any SSD but I've had failed SSDs from the sata MLC era (ocz vector 180 post Toshiba acquisition and a zotac SSD that's got a phison controller)
And also a few ssds that failed on my customers

 

[LabRat 891]

So does fanxiang S660 4TB and HP FX700 2TB.
Still slow! Note : they use the *SAME* controller

(In reviews) I've seen wild variations in both 'benchmarked' and 'real world' performance across drives using the same controllers, DRAM, and same/similar NAND.
The differences seem to stem from pSLC cache size, buffer policies, etc.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Still slow! Note : they use the *SAME* controller

Perhaps a different configuration is being used.

 

[LabRat 891]

I am very well aware. But the surprise is that it did 1.5GB/s averaged across the whole drive even after I filled it up. Odd for a dramless drive!

No disagreement from me.
However, I can theorize how it is accomplishing this: Overprovisioned space, is plausibly assigned to active pSLC caching.

Warranty is still 5 years but I heard from my supplier that it's a lottery whether it's TLC or QLC. As to why NQ exists... I can't say anything

As long as performance is similar, and write-life is acceptable. *meh*
Best ya can do is make sure customers are running backups/sysimages (which, I think is supposed to be std. practice).
Maybe keep a mental and/or excel 'list' of drives' brands and specs that have come back failed w/in warranty terms.

I've yet to cook any SSD but I've had failed SSDs from the sata MLC era (ocz vector 180 post Toshiba acquisition and a zotac SSD that's got a phison controller)
And also a few ssds that failed on my customers

Don't run Unity Engine games (like HBS BattleTech) off a USB-NVMe adapter (that's known to run hot), off a nekkid 'server' NVMe. That one was tragic but, I should've known better.
The 16GB M10 Optanes... I have a small hoard of them, and basically use them for experiments. They cost me all-in-all <$5 ea.
Example: I found out the lil power IC or w/e on ALL Optane drives gets searingly hot! 9/10 optane m.2 drives I've seen, look like the polymer on the IC's 'lid' is melted and bubbled out (even BNIB P1600Xs).

 

[GabrielLP14]

So Micron has started allowing rebranding of their NAND?


Multi-channeling of NAND chips(effective RAID for NAND) is a cheap and easy way to get otherwise slow NAND to perform better as a group.

lexar remarcs these packages.

 

[DaveLT]

Perhaps a different configuration is being used.

Dude just give it up.

(In reviews) I've seen wild variations in both 'benchmarked' and 'real world' performance across drives using the same controllers, DRAM, and same/similar NAND.
The differences seem to stem from pSLC cache size, buffer policies, etc.

I definitely remember the P3 plus, that has decent QLC nand but still performs poorly outside of pSLC.
However, remember it's a dramless QLC.

No disagreement from me.
However, I can theorize how it is accomplishing this: Overprovisioned space, is plausibly assigned to active pSLC caching.


As long as performance is similar, and write-life is acceptable. *meh*
Best ya can do is make sure customers are running backups/sysimages (which, I think is supposed to be std. practice).
Maybe keep a mental and/or excel 'list' of drives' brands and specs that have come back failed w/in warranty terms.

Don't run Unity Engine games (like HBS BattleTech) off a USB-NVMe adapter (that's known to run hot), off a nekkid 'server' NVMe. That one was tragic but, I should've known better.
The 16GB M10 Optanes... I have a small hoard of them, and basically use them for experiments. They cost me all-in-all <$5 ea.
Example: I found out the lil power IC or w/e on ALL Optane drives gets searingly hot! 9/10 optane m.2 drives I've seen, look like the polymer on the IC's 'lid' is melted and bubbled out (even BNIB P1600Xs).

I mean if the drive does fail it's not my problem

Gosh you actually ran games off a usb-nvme??
Yeah ive got 4 of those optane M10 in a 4x card in my storage server because... Fun. I replaced it with a P4800X. The 16GB were fantastically cheap. Actually I should buy another one and try killing it...
Actually a lot of Intel H10s fail because the lil power IC fails. Total data loss! The optane part doesn't start? The whole thing doesn't start even if only the QLC is in use. Oh also the data rate on that is HIDEOUS. It took me only 30gb of game install to bring it down to 30mb/s... I waited 8 hours for the game to install

 

[SPDIF]

Thanks Gabriel, i was sure it was QLC from the beginning already. But anyway it will do the job as other's out there. Just with a lower lifespan.

I still use an old P3 here of 2TB and i don't have anything to complain. It does what it should do. It sits in a Mini computer with a AMD Ryzen 9 5900HX CPU. Boots up in seconds.
It uses HMB instead of Dram but nowadays those Dram-less SSD's are not so bad. I also have a Samsung 980 without Dram and i can say that this is fast and powerful.