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Limiting powerconsumption in Desktop builds?

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Regarding RAM power consumption

Around 2W/ DDR4 RDIMM
  • 16x 8GB 232W
  • 4x 8GB 205W
  • Savings: 27W
That's on a server. on a desktop pc with max 4 DIMMs is not going to make a big difference. Most ITX boards use 2 dimms anyway.

References:
https://www.servethehome.com/ddr4-dimms-system-power-consumption-tested/
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i7-5960x-haswell-e-cpu,3918-13.html

The most common misunderstandings about PSUs:

A Gold rated PSU is always better quality than a Bronze rated PSU.

Using PSU wattage calculators on the net or recommendations from card manufacturers is the way to calculate what wattage you need for your rig.

A gold rated 600 watt PSU at maximum efficiency can only deliver 520 watts because it's only 87% efficient at full load.

Spending extra for a Platinum or Titanium PSU will pay for itself for everyone in the long run from saved electricity costs on the utility bill.
it's the other way around , a 600w psu with 87% efficency is going to pull 689W from the wall. That's why using a more efficent psu reduces the total system power usage.

References:
Wikipedia: 80Plus Technical overview
...For instance, a 600-watt power supply with 60% efficiency running at full load would draw 1000 W from the mains and would therefore waste 400 W as heat. On the other hand, a 600-watt power supply with 80% efficiency running at full load would draw 750 W from the mains and would therefore waste only 150 W as heat...
 
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it's the other way around , a 600w psu with 87% efficency is going to pull 689W from the wall. That's why using a more efficent psu reduces the total system power usage.

That could be why I posted that as one example of misunderstandings and you misunderstood that. This thread is getting comical at this point.
 
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That could be why I posted that as one example of misunderstandings and you misunderstood that. This thread is getting comical at this point.
o_O s*hit you are right... Yeah, the situation is pretty comical
 

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8700k 1080ti. Liquid cooling, fans the ball of wax. He's Smart, 850w psu. He can load that to 600w load sustained. Easily run SLI.

Psu and power saving. = Buys Ryzen Athlon 220ge uses igp and can use nice small psu.

Oh, man I'm glad you reminded me, I need to update that. I actually dropped a 1000w in there a few months back because the 850w started acting flakey.

I have a 220G system too, it has a 450w power supply in it. Still overkill for that system!

Spending extra for a Platinum or Titanium PSU will pay for itself for everyone in the long run from saved electricity costs on the utility bill.

I wrote a big long thing on this exact topic. You're correct, they almost never pay for themselves in my experience. A cheap 80+ Gold on sale is the way to go over a Platinum/Titanium that likely will cost twice as much.
 

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And Intels processers seem to be way over their promised TDP:
Yeah, because you don't seem to understand what TDP means for Intel CPUs:
The upper point of the thermal profile consists of the Thermal Design Power (TDP) and the associated Tcase value. Thermal Design Power (TDP) should be used for processor thermal solution design targets. TDP is not the maximum power that the processor can dissipate.
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/white-paper/resources-xeon-measuring-processor-power-paper.pdf
 
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Low quality post by Aquinus

Aquinus

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The important part is:

I made it bold, italics, and underlined just for you. ;)

You the man.
However cpu doesnt dissipate power, it consumes it.
You dissipate heat which is the product of being not so effecient...

The cpu that releases the least amount of heat (btu) per cycle would be most effecient.
 
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Bill_Bright: If ram consume much power when under load, would it then not be smarter
to have more Ram than nessecery fx 16Gb instead of 8Gb? Then they don't get as "strained"
It is smarter to have more RAM but not for that reason. You are suggesting RAM under load is being "strained". Its not. The fact is, two sticks consumes more power than one. Four sticks consume more than two. But regardless, a stick of DDR3 only consumes about 3W (regardless its density). And DDR4 consumes even less because it uses a lower operating voltage.
 

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CPUs convert electric potential energy into heat energy, which is represented as power.
True, except heat generated by a CPU is wasted energy. And that heat is dissipated by the IHS and heatsink.

CPUs convert electrical energy into work. And in physics (of which electronics is a part) work is the movement or displacement of an object. And within the CPU, those objects are the billions and billions of transistor gates that are flip-flopping back and forth to represent 1s and 0s.

Ideally, CPUs would convert 100% of the energy they consume into work. But CPUs are not 100% efficient. So some of that energy is simply wasted in the form of heat.
 

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True, except heat generated by a CPU is wasted energy. And that heat is dissipated by the IHS and heatsink.

CPUs convert electrical energy into work. And in physics (of which electronics is a part) work is the movement or displacement of an object. And within the CPU, those objects are the billions and billions of transistor gates that are flip-flopping back and forth to represent 1s and 0s.

Ideally, CPUs would convert 100% of the energy they consume into work. But CPUs are not 100% efficient. So some of that energy is simply wasted in the form of heat.
Well, if we're really going to get technical about it, the CPU really isn't doing any "work" as the only type of energy that the electric potential is being converted to is heat. "Work" would suggest that the CPU is converting that energy into a force through some sort of mechanism. Ideally, the CPU wouldn't convert any energy to heat at all, but that would suggest zero resistance in all states of the circuit.

You, however, can do work (in your body,) by throwing it. :laugh:
 
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Well, if we're really going to get technical about it, the CPU really isn't doing any "work" as the only type of energy that the electric potential is being converted to is heat. "Work" would suggest that the CPU is converting that energy into a force through some sort of mechanism.
It is too doing work. Those gates are made of electrons that are physically moving - as in a mechanical movement or mechanism! They physically flip open ("0" or "low") to block current flow through the gate and close ("1" or "high") to allow current flow.

That's exactly why wires get hot when too much current is flowing - it is due to the "friction" of too many electrons banging into the atoms of the conductor.
Ideally, the CPU wouldn't convert any energy to heat at all, but that would suggest zero resistance in all states of the circuit.
Right - as I said, ideally the CPU would convert 100% of the energy into work - that is, into flip-flopping those gates. But due to friction (resistance), some of that energy is wasted in form of heat.
 

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It is too doing work. Those gates are made of electrons that are physically moving - as in a mechanical movement or mechanism! They physically flip open ("0" or "low") to block current flow through the gate and close ("1" or "high") to allow current flow.

That's exactly why wires get hot when too much current is flowing - it is due to the "friction" of too many electrons banging into the atoms of the conductor.
Right - as I said, ideally the CPU would convert 100% of the energy into work - that is, into flip-flopping those gates. But due to friction (resistance), some of that energy is wasted in form of heat.
If you're observing a single electron, sure, there is work, but the system as a whole does no work. The change in kinetic energy for the entire system is zero, so no work.
 
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Good power supplies have fairly flat efficiency curves. You'll end up spending more money buying this powerful psu than you will ever save having a potential few % increase in efficiency.
It's time for this 50% load golden zone to go away.
Not to mention that most PCs spend most of their time in idle or at least in low energy consumption mode.

People are too obsessed with power saving these days, to the point they pay premium for the privilege of doing it.
There are other benefits of a big psu thats loaded light, they tend to have long warranties, last a long time anyway and suit any if not all reasonable or not scenarios , I would buy a suitable supply for a work or gaming pc but for enthusiasts swapping components and expectations on a whim a decent size PSU can be a reasonable purchase.
For 98% of use cases a 50-75 watt headroom gap is advisable to prolong life expectency and allow the occasional crazey power spikes that can occasionally happen, IMHO.
@the rest
And I really think some people get a bit too involved in trying to prove themselves right in threads , usually on tangential points with marginal relevance.
 
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Power, not electricity. and when you say "consume" you mean that CPUs convert electric potential energy into heat energy, which is represented as power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(physics)

The "power" a cpu uses is in the form of electricity.
You convert average electrical wattage to BTU dissipation which is a result of poor effeciency.

Since it takes power to operate a transistor which opens and closes it creates a heat because its not all entirely consumed (leaks) and transistors create heat from being on and during operation have no lubricant which also creates a heat.

However its looked at, heat is created and dissipated in the form of BTU.

Just like TDP is not directly related to power usage but the heat which gets dissipates per hour measurement.

So yea we can say dissipate a power. Its just converted to heat dissipation, again due to lack of effeceincy.

@the rest
And I really think some people get a bit too involved in trying to prove themselves right in threads , usually on tangential points with marginal relevance.

Just sayin :rolleyes:
 

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and during operation have no lubricant which also creates a heat.
This isn't an engine or a relay switch. Transistors have no moving parts. It converts energy to heat because circuits have resistance (not friction.) Nothing more, nothing less which is caused by electrons striking other atoms as opposed to traveling in a straight line unimpeded.
 
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This isn't an engine or a relay switch. Transistors have no moving parts. It converts energy to heat because circuits have resistance (not friction.) Nothing more, nothing less which is caused by electrons striking other atoms as opposed to traveling in a straight line unimpeded.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
There is no such thing as friction without resistance. I'm not sure where exactly you're taking that??
Electrons being resisted creates friction and that's how heat is created no??
So you're dissipating the non efficient electrons that are being resisted causing friction dissipated as BTU correct??
 

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Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
There is no such thing as friction without resistance. I'm not sure where exactly you're taking that??
Electrons being resisted creates friction and that's how heat is created no??
So you're dissipating the non efficient electrons that are being resisted causing friction dissipated as BTU correct??
Just because friction and resistance both have the same outcome, converting some form of energy into heat energy, doesn't mean they're achieved through the same mechanisms. To quote wikipedia
Electrical resistance shares some conceptual parallels with the notion of mechanical friction.
and
A voltage difference between two points of a conductor creates an electric field that accelerates charge carriers in the direction of the electric field, giving them kinetic energy. When the charged particles collide with ions in the conductor, the particles are scattered; their direction of motion becomes random rather than aligned with the electric field, which constitutes thermal motion. Thus, energy from the electrical field is converted into thermal energy.[3]
Whereas friction is:
Friction is the force resisting the relative motion of solid surfaces, fluid layers, and material elements sliding against each other.
 
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There are other benefits of a big psu thats loaded light, they tend to have long warranties, last a long time anyway and suit any if not all reasonable or not scenarios.

This is all true - though lasting a long time is not a result - assuming the demand on the PSU is not above its capacity. A "quality" PSU can run at near capacity for just as long - as long as it is properly cooled.

Your first point is an irritant for me that we see on all sorts of products. That is the bigger models have more features and often better warranties.

I just saw this with snow blowers - as a silly but applicable example. Go for a big 28" wide two-stage model and you can find them with multiple speeds forward and 2 or 3 speeds in reverse (or even variable speeds both ways). You can get them with lights, remote chute turners, even hand warmers and more. But try to find all those nice to have features on a 22" wide two-stage (that will fit next to my truck in my narrow garage) and you are lucky to get 2 speeds forward and that's it. And it is not that there is not room on the handles or the motor is too weak.

Regardless, assuming the same "quality" of parts, as long as the amount of snow does not exceed the 22" blower's capacity, there is nothing to suggest the 28" blower would have a longer life expectancy.

For 98% of use cases a 50-75 watt headroom gap is advisable to prolong life expectency and allow the occasional crazey power spikes that can occasionally happen, IMHO.
Pretty sure no one is recommending users buy a PSU that exactly matches the demand. I typically recommend an extra 100W to allow for future unforeseen upgrades and perhaps quieter operation, and I feel that makes sense. What I don't see making sense is buying a 1.2KW supply when a 600W supply is more than enough.

Sadly, with budget factory computer builds, we often see included PSUs that are barely adequate for the hardware they come with. Simply adding another hard drive may cause one to consider a bigger PSU. Upgrading the graphics solution - even from integrated to a modest card - likely would require a bigger supply. :(

The change in kinetic energy for the entire system is zero, so no work.
No. You could say that with each rest state between each clock cycle. Kinetic energy is not the only requirement for "work" in digital electronics. Kinetic energy - which is the energy stored in a "moving" object. Part of the work done was the flipping of the gates, not the energy stored in the moving gate. But work is also done in simply "crunching the data". It takes "work" just to refresh a static display - even if that involved verifying nothing changed.

You are suggesting the lighting of lightbulb filament involves no "work" because there is no stored kinetic energy. By your definition, a CPU would still be doing no work even if it was rendering a rotating, transparent 3D image of the USS Gerald R. Ford.

And I am not talking about a single electron. I am talking about billions of electrons in 64-bit wide chunks, billions of times a second.

And I note a CPU is really never doing nothing - unless powered off.

You convert average electrical wattage to BTU dissipation which is a result of poor effeciency.
This is true, when you are talking about HVAC systems. We are not. You are right that heat (BTU) "generation" (not dissipation, BTW - that's another subject) is the result of poor efficiency. But heat from a CPU is a "by-product". And it is created by just a small percentage of the total wattage consumed.

*******

Getting back on-topic - limiting power consumption in desktop builds starts before you buy your components. If the desire is to limit consumption, you wouldn't be buying a i9-9900K, or Ryzen 7 1800X with a 1080 Ti graphics card. There are many less hungry solutions out there. Careful and thorough homework will get you more efficient PSUs, motherboards, drives, fans, and monitors too. Using headphones instead of power speakers can help.

But frankly, if I am building a gaming rig - something for entertainment - I'm looking for the most bang for my (or the client's) money. Energy efficiency is not something I worry about except in the PSU. And even then, I'm generally happy with "Gold". This is the same for systems used for primarily for CAD/CAE or graphics editing work. If the best card or CPU for the money is a power hog, oh well.

On the other hand, if building an "office" computer for a SOHO client, a computer to be used for Word, Excel and PowerPoint, email, updating Facebook and the occasional game of solitaire, saving energy may be a higher priority in selecting each component.
 
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True, except heat generated by a CPU is wasted energy. And that heat is dissipated by the IHS and heatsink.

CPUs convert electrical energy into work. And in physics (of which electronics is a part) work is the movement or displacement of an object. And within the CPU, those objects are the billions and billions of transistor gates that are flip-flopping back and forth to represent 1s and 0s.

Ideally, CPUs would convert 100% of the energy they consume into work. But CPUs are not 100% efficient. So some of that energy is simply wasted in the form of heat.
Yes, but it's not wasted if you live in a cold climate. My cpu heats my room to summer temperatures if I run it overclocked without the need for additional heating.
 
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Yes, but it's not wasted if you live in a cold climate. My cpu heats my room to summer temperatures if I run it overclocked without the need for additional heating.
Same here , crunching has it's direct benefits in winter but I've tuned my cooling and lowered clocks to save power and output a nice ambient temperature within the thermal limits of each component, my cpu hits 71 max the gpu 56 pulling about 338 watts average with it fully loaded crunching and folding.
Not bad with a vega 64 loaded up.
 
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Same here , crunching has it's direct benefits in winter but I've tuned my cooling and lowered clocks to save power and output a nice ambient temperature within the thermal limits of each component, my cpu hits 71 max the gpu 56 pulling about 338 watts average with it fully loaded crunching and folding.
Not bad with a vega 64 loaded up.
Ran my 8370 during the summer underclocked to 3.9ghz (I ran it @ 4.7 most times) to stop it from making my room an oven. I have a window fan to control my room temp but it can only do so much when the temp outside soars. I'm playing with 3.9ghz on my 3600x atm. because it runs 10 degrees cooler than 4.2
 
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Yes, but it's not wasted if you live in a cold climate.
lol

Well, there's some truth to that. The winters here are bitterly cold too and when both computers and all 4 monitors in this room get going, this room can get rather toasty. But that then presents the problem when I then leave this room, the rest of the house "feels" like it is freezing. Not good. And in the summer time, it actually can cause the AC to work harder. So in that respect, it means a lot of wasted energy.
 
D

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lol

Well, there's some truth to that. The winters here are bitterly cold too and when both computers and all 4 monitors in this room get going, this room can get rather toasty. But that then presents the problem when I then leave this room, the rest of the house "feels" like it is freezing. Not good. And in the summer time, it actually can cause the AC to work harder. So in that respect, it means a lot of wasted energy.

2700X 28x multi 0.948v 16 threads. 30x multi 1.050v 16 threads. These are my "passive cooling" numbers.
Max package wattage usage under 50w. Cores about 26w. @ load F@H 2.8ghz under a volt. Under 75w at 3.0/3.1ghz.

Not bad huh?
 
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