Looking for advice on memory

[dutchie53]

I recently built a new system and I went for the fastest memory that I could afford, thinking this would result in the best FPS performance. Since then, I am beginning to have doubts if this was the right choice. I hope to get some guidance on how to proceed. I tried to read up on how to tune the BIOS settings but I must confess that I am confused with all the various settings

My specifications are as follows:
ASUS PRIME X570 PRO
2x G.Skill F4-4400C19-8GTZSW XMP2.0
Windows 10 Home
AMD Ryzen 7 3800X 4200Mhz 8 Core
NVIDIA GeForce RTX2070 Super

Bios reports:
Target CPU speed = 4200, DRAM freq = 4400, FCLK = 1800Mhz

CPU-Z reports:
Dram Freq 2199.5 MHz
FSB : DRAM 3:66
CL 20.0
tRCD 19
tRP 19
tRAS 39
tRC 103
CR 1T

My goal is not to overclock my system to the max, but rather to improve the FPS in games as much as possible. So, should I keep the 4400MHz RAM and if so, what would be the optimum BIOS settings? And if this is not the best choice, what RAM should I get? Would G.Skill Flare X F4-3200C14Q-32GFX be a better choice?

I hope that someone can help me. Please note that English is not my native language.

Thanks in advance

 

[ir_cow]

Since you have a 3800X. The best possible configuration would be DDR-3800 with the FCLK set to 1900Mhz for a 1:1 Ratio. Breaking 1:1 is worse and you'll need DDR4-5000 to get back to the "performance" of DDR4-3600.

Now if you are playing games above 1920x1080, you are conpletely GPU bound anyways. So it doesn't really matter what you use.

 

[Bomby569]

doing it you can also lower the timings, a win win

 

[ir_cow]

Since its likely Samsung B-Die you could drop it to 3800 16-16-16-32 @ 1.4v. Maybe CL14 if you apply 1.5v.

 

[dutchie53]

doing it you can also lower the timings, a win win

Do you mean that I should dial the 4400Mhz down to 3800 as ir-cow suggested? So CPU speed 3800, DRAM freq 3800 and FCLK 1900?

Ah thank you ir_cow, just missed your reply
I am going to try that

Thank you both for your input!

 

[ir_cow]

Whatever you end up with, make sure to run memory tests. While you are downclocking, you are also tightening the timings. This can lead to errors if A) the memory is not able or B) not enough voltage applied. Start with CL19, than CL16. If all is good. Try CL14. This will REQUIRE 1.5v. No way around it.

I'm also going off the assumption that this G.Skill memory Samsung-B die. Given that the original timings is 19-19-19 @ 1.4v, leads me to believe yes it is indeed such. But maybe not binned well. Who knows until you try.

 

[dutchie53]

Thank you for the heads-up!

Whatever you end up with, make sure to run memory tests. While you are downclocking, you are also tightening the timings. This can lead to errors if A) the memory is not able or B) not enough voltage applied. Start with CL19, than CL16. If all is good. Try CL14. This will REQUIRE 1.5v. No way around it.

Thank you for the heads up!

Whatever you end up with, make sure to run memory tests. While you are downclocking, you are also tightening the timings. This can lead to errors if A) the memory is not able or B) not enough voltage applied. Start with CL19, than CL16. If all is good. Try CL14. This will REQUIRE 1.5v. No way around it.

I'm also going off the assumption that this G.Skill memory Samsung-B die. Given that the original timings is 19-19-19 @ 1.4v, leads me to believe yes it is indeed such. But maybe not binned well. Who knows until you try.

Follow up:
My apologies for my noob questions but I am out of my comfort zone here and I don't want to end up with a bricked PC :-(
I assume that I have to do the following:
- change Memory Frequency from DDR-4400 -> DDR-3800
- change FCLK from AUTO -> 1900Mhz
- change CPU core ratio from 42.00 -> 38.00
That would give me the 1:1:1 ratio, right?
The DRAM voltage is already at 1.400V. What do I do with the AI overclock timer settings (currently at D.O.C.P. DDR4-4405 19-19-19-39)? Options are: Off / Manual / DOCP

 

[ir_cow]

You can also download Thaipoon Burner. That will tell you what type of ICs on the Ram it is. I am almost certain it has to be Samsung B-Die considering the even timings and XMP voltage.

I assume that I have to do the following:
- change Memory Frequency from DDR-4400 -> DDR-3800

Yes

- change FCLK from AUTO -> 1900Mhz

Yes

- change CPU core ratio from 42.00 -> 38.00

CPU Ratio has no bearing on the FCLK or memory frequency.

That would give me the 1:1:1 ratio, right?

Yes DDR4-3800 + FCLK 1900 MHz gives you 1:1 Ratio.

The DRAM voltage is already at 1.400V. What do I do with the AI overclock timer settings (currently at D.O.C.P. DDR4-4405 19-19-19-39)? Options are: Off / Manual / DOCP

FYI D.O.C.P = XMP. Just a different naming scheme for AMD. All that does is automatically set the memory XMP profile and DDR4 voltage. You can leave it on and manually change the memory frequency. If disabled you will need to enter the desired timings manually.

 

[dutchie53]

Thank you for your reply. Update:
- I ran Thaiphoon burner and the RAM is indeed Samsung B-die.
- I changed the FCLK to 1900, memory frequency to 3800, and changed tCL, tRCDWR, tRCDRD, tRP and tRAS to 16-16-16-16-32 (and left all the other settings at AUTO, idk if I should change those and/or if that makes a huge difference). I left the CPU ratio at 42 and ran several memory tests over the last couple of days and also checked if it would run Cyberpunk and other games. As far as I can tell everything is running just fine.
- Cinebench showed a very small improvement in the 10-minute CPU multi-core test: 12903 with the new settings versus 12793 from the old settings. If I compare that to the value mentioned for my processor in the CB R23 multi-core list in cpu-monkey (12874) the new settings are less than 1% above that value, while the old settings were less than 1% below. I have to say that this was a bit disappointing because I expected a bigger improvement, but maybe I am reading this wrong. I also did not see a noticable improvement in FPS.

So I am looking forward to your comments on this. Thank you in advance

 

[ir_cow]

Yeah 1% is about the average. It isn't going to be noticeable unless you have the frame-counter on. That and the need for a high-end video card running at 1080P.

Here is a glimpse of a project I have been working on. You have see once the 1:1 ratio is broken BL3 loses 5 FPS on average @ 1920x1080 on Badass settings. Cyberpunk 2077 on the other hand is 2FPS and does not care about keeping the ratio intact. Basically margin of error if I didn't run it three times for more accurate average.

 

[dutchie53]

Thank you very much for your feedback, this helped me a lot. If I understand this all correctly then tuning RAM will only marginally improve my FPS gain in games (which was my original goal) and that I have a better chance of improving FPS by getting a faster CPU and GPU.
Right now I am thinking about replacing my current Ryzen 7 3800X by a Ryzen 7 5800X. Regarding the GPU I am not sure yet, the 3080Ti is "a bit'' expensive (and not in stock atm) but maybe a RTX3060 or RTX3060Ti ? I would appreciate your suggestions

 

[Bomby569]

You're all over the place. RAM matters a lot especially with Ryzen, but only until about 3200, after that you barelly notice the difference. You already have a good cpu, you should see if that is a bootleneck before spending more money, it depends on what you play, at what resolution and frame rate. GPU is the same, what are you trying to achieve, what games, what's your monitor.

 

[HD64G]

RAM performance cannot help with CB. Games that are RAM sensitive and CPU dependent will show a clear increase in minFPS and a moderate at averageFPS.

 

[dgianstefani]

Minimum fps 1% lows go up much more than average with ram.

 

[ir_cow]

Minimum fps 1% lows go up much more than average with ram.

This is true but hard to benchmark.

 

[dgianstefani]

It's not hard at all. Competent reviewers do it all the time.

 

[ir_cow]

It's not hard at all. Competent reviewers do it all the time.

Interesting. How about you take a crack at it and show us some results please

 

[dgianstefani]

Why would I when it's been done already multiple times. Change your viewing habits if you haven't noticed the reviews.

 

[dutchie53]

To answer Bomby569's question:
- games: mainly Elder Scolls Online, Cyberpunk 2077, CS:GO
- Monitor: Samsung Odyssey G5 2021 LC32G53TQWRXEN 144Mhz
- FPS: hard to tell because it varies a lot but I would say 60-90, sometimes a bit more

 

[ir_cow]

Why would I when it's been done already multiple times. Change your viewing habits if you haven't noticed the reviews.

Just another keyboard warrior I see.

 

[dutchie53]

Resolution: 1440p

 

[Bomby569]

CSGO can run on a potato, i have no idea about ESO but CP77 is a beast if you want to cranck everything and get a good framerate.

I think you already have a good setup for what you do at 1440p, especially with FSR and DLSS now, i don't think you need to spend more money. Especially with the gpu prices.
But it's your money, if you want to go for a 5600x and a 3060ti or 3070 or something similar from AMD i think it's enough. 3080ti maybe a bit overkill with the price you're going to pay and for 1440p

 

[dutchie53]

Thank you Bomby569 and all others for your help. This helped me a lot to see things in perspective

 

[Caring1]

And if all else fails, try fish oil, I hear that is great for memory.