Maps, science, data & statistics tracking of COVID-19

[dragontamer5788]

You say any reasonable person yet

I'm expecting you to read through the webpage, and see the dozens and dozens of studies on this subject.

Studies from Spain, Columbia, India, Mexico have been replicated on this subject. This IVM question is not new: its been getting studied for many months. The fact that so many studies are failing to prove any result what so ever should be discouraging to any IVM fanbois out there.

 

[R-T-B]

Its not a horse med.

It's primary use by volume massively is as a horse dewormer, so they aren't wrong just because it's occasionally used in people too.

 

[Xzibit]

I'm expecting you to read through the webpage, and see the dozens and dozens of studies on this subject.

Studies from Spain, Columbia, India, Mexico have been replicated on this subject. This IVM question is not new: its been getting studied for many months. The fact that so many studies are failing to prove any result what so ever should be discouraging to any IVM fanbois out there.

You should tell that to the people at the NIH then. Your more than willing to site their study list but not their recommendation

 

[dragontamer5788]

It's primary use by volume massively is as a horse dewormer, so they aren't wrong just because it's occasionally used in people too.

“Do not take medicine for animals,” Oklahoma stores sold out of horse deworming drug despite FDA warning about consumption

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is warning people not to take horse deworming medication to treat COVID-19.

kfor.com

News 4 Oklahoma reports that...

KFOR contacted 12 Tractor Supply stores around Oklahoma, and they all said Ivermectin was sold out.

People are buying the horse version, in Oklahoma at least. Now either a bunch of horses got worms, or... Oklahoma people have begun to experiment with animal medicine upon themselves.

EDIT: unlike dumbass national hyperventilating media (Rolling Stone wtf is wrong with you??), this is a local news channel reporting about a local condition in Oklahoma. So it has much more trustworthiness IMO. I don't live there, but it seems like this story has been corroborated.

 

[R-T-B]

“Do not take medicine for animals,” Oklahoma stores sold out of horse deworming drug despite FDA warning about consumption

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is warning people not to take horse deworming medication to treat COVID-19.

kfor.com

News 4 Oklahoma reports that...



People are buying the horse version, in Oklahoma at least. Now either a bunch of horses got worms, or... Oklahoma people have begun to experiment with animal medicine upon themselves.

Stores around my neck of the woods need a "photo of you and your horse" to buy it now.

It's insanity.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

It's primary use by volume massively is as a horse dewormer, so they aren't wrong just because it's occasionally used in people too.

Maybe in the US....

 

[R-T-B]

Maybe in the US....

In the world, I'm fairly certain. Horses aren't unique to the 1st world, and they use a lot of the stuff.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Maybe in the US....

Yes. I'm sorry for having a bias from my home country. But its clear that people in my country are taking the horse-version for themselves. Its the height of stupidity.

There are others who go to the hospital and at least ask for the human-version of the drug. But the "horse dewormer" line is not a hyperbole by any stretch. Its literally happening (according to reliable local news sources)

EDIT: I don't have any problem with scientists experimenting with IVM. We need to study any and all drugs that have a chance at slowing down this pandemic. I just believe that the scientific evidence on this subject is leaning against IVM at the moment. Maybe if a bigger/better/more reliable study comes out later, I'll have more trust in that drug. But for now, its clear people are just hoping for the best and then eating the horse version.

 

[Space Lynx]

The percentage of those dying that are fully vaccinated vs the number of fully vaccinated is very, very low.

I'm pro vaccine, not sure why you are trying to make my statement seem like it is not worthwhile. I only meant in support of those few who are still dying (largely older types), they should be trying vitamin c and zinc infusion imo.

I forget who commented earlier about taking pill vitamin C and peeing it out, but if you listen to the way Dr. Rhonda Patrick described it on the Joe Rogan podcast a few years ago, its not like that at all when it comes to drips/infusions, the body absorbs vitamin C and zinc in different ways, and the fact its not being studied at a higher level is really a shame.

 

[dragontamer5788]

I'm pro vaccine, not sure why you are trying to make my statement seem like it is not worthwhile. I only meant in support of those few who are still dying (largely older types), they should be trying vitamin c and zinc infusion imo.

I forget who commented earlier about taking pill vitamin C and peeing it out, but if you listen to the way Dr. Rhonda Patrick described it on the Joe Rogan podcast a few years ago, its not like that at all when it comes to drips/infusions, the body absorbs vitamin C and zinc in different ways, and the fact its not being studied at a higher level is really a shame.

Vitamin C | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

Read information about vitamin C and COVID-19.

www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov

A pilot clinical trial in China randomized 56 adults with COVID-19 in the intensive care unit to receive intravenous (IV) vitamin C 24 g per day or placebo for 7 days. The study was terminated early due to a reduction in the number of cases of COVID-19 in China. Overall, the study found no differences between the arms in mortality, the duration of mechanical ventilation, or the change in median sequential organ failure assessment (SOFA) scores. The study reported improvements in oxygenation (as measured by the ratio of arterial partial pressure of oxygen to fraction of inspired oxygen [PaO2/FiO2]) from baseline to Day 7 in the treatment arm that were statistically greater than those observed in the placebo arm (+20.0 vs. -51.9; P = 0.04).4

You keep pretending that the NIH isn't studying these things. Science is largely in a state of uncertainty. If proof comes out of one of these studies, doctors will absolutely know about it. For now, its just unreliable results on the Vitamin C question.

 

[Space Lynx]

Vitamin C | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

Read information about vitamin C and COVID-19.

www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov

You keep pretending that the NIH isn't studying these things. Science is largely in a state of uncertainty. If proof comes out of one of these studies, doctors will absolutely know about it. For now, its just unreliable results on the Vitamin C question.

The NIH isn't. That was China studying it, and they terminated the study early without doing it properly due to lack of people with Covid.

So my point still stands. The two studies below that one in the link you provided show intravenous vitamin C does help in non-covid patients, and the Chinese study you just quoted even says it improved oxygen levels. The NIH needs to try different amounts plus combine it with zinc at the same time. So no NIH is not studying, it's China, and China didn't even do it properly and ended it early, so you kind of just proved my point, so thank you I guess.

 

[dragontamer5788]

The NIH isn't. That was China studying it, and they terminated the study early without doing it properly due to lack of people with Covid.

So my point still stands. The two studies below that one in the link you provided show intravenous vitamin C does help in non-covid patients, and the Chinese study you just quoted even says it improved oxygen levels. The NIH needs to try different amounts plus combine it with zinc at the same time. So no NIH is not studying, it's China, and China didn't even do it properly and ended it early, so you kind of just proved my point, so thank you I guess.

Did you check Clinical Trials.gov link at the bottom to see what the current studies are?

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

The studies are happening, which is my primary point. The Vitamin C thing doesn't look like its been as well explored as other hot topics. But in any case, we know that:

1. The vaccine works and is safe.

2. Antibody treatment works and grossly lowers death rates.

Which is probably more useful than these vitamin tests will be.

 

[Xzibit]

The financial incentive to study old or cheap drugs isn't a draw for big pharmaceuticals. They just prove someone elses drug is useful or something not as profitable which price can be controlled thru exclusivity ie patent.

Most of the studies for already available drugs are going to come from small studies.

 

[dragontamer5788]

The financial incentive to study old or cheap drugs isn't a draw for big pharmaceuticals. They just prove someone elses drug is useful or something not as profitable which price can be controlled thru exclusivity ie patent.

Most of the studies for already available drugs are going to come from small studies.

That's why we don't rely upon the free market for these things. NIH is government-run and uses government money for a reason.

The VA also gets some studies here and there. But NIH is the big one. There were a few other research institutions setup over the years too.

EDIT: Free Market + Patents seem acceptable with regards to mRNA development (or other vaccine development though). I think there's a lot wrong with the patent system, but it clearly pulled through this time.

 

[Space Lynx]

Did you check Clinical Trials.gov link at the bottom to see what the current studies are?

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

The studies are happening, which is my primary point. The Vitamin C thing doesn't look like its been as well explored as other hot topics. But in any case, we know that:

1. The vaccine works and is safe.

2. Antibody treatment works and grossly lowers death rates.

Which is probably more useful than these vitamin tests will be.

So basically your saying, screw the old people who get breakthrough covid and still die... alright...

It's literally not that expensive to do intravenous vitamin c and zinc drips... it's worth a try imo.

 

[dragontamer5788]

So basically your saying, screw the old people who get breakthrough covid and still die... alright...

No. I'm saying dexamethasone and monoclonal antibodies are the best we got, and until someone proves that other treatments are better, we should use what is currently considered the best treatment on as many people as possible to save their lives.

It's literally not that expensive to do intravenous vitamin c and zinc drips... it's worth a try imo.

Its only worth trying after someone proves it effective and better than the standard of care. Otherwise, you don't know if you're helping or hurting the patient.

EDIT: We already had a legion of idiots try out the hydroxychloroquine thing last year and hurt themselves (EDIT: Or maybe not "hurt themselves", but they certainly didn't help themselves). Remember? Just trying random drugs doesn't always help. You need to do studies and research first. Once the research is conclusive, then and only then do you move on with changing treatments. And we currently have a legion of idiots trying horse-versions of ivermectin. The typical American is pretty stupid: its immoral to hype snake oil to them.

 

[Xzibit]

No. I'm saying dexamethasone and monoclonal antibodies are the best we got, and until someone proves that other treatments are better, we should use what is currently considered the best treatment on as many people as possible to save their lives.

Just so you know

Recommendations​

• The COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends using one of the following anti-SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibodies, listed in alphabetical order, to treat non hospitalized patients with mild to moderate COVID-19 who are at high risk of clinical progression
• The use of anti-SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibodies should be considered for patients with mild to moderate COVID-19 who are hospitalized for a reason other than COVID-19 if they otherwise meet the EUA criteria for outpatient treatment.
• Anti-SARS-CoV-2 monoclonal antibodies are not currently authorized for use in patients who are hospitalized with severe COVID-19; however, they may be available through expanded access programs for patients who have not developed an antibody response or who are not expected to mount an effective immune response to SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

[Space Lynx]

No. I'm saying dexamethasone and monoclonal antibodies are the best we got, and until someone proves that other treatments are better, we should use what is currently considered the best treatment on as many people as possible to save their lives.

I 100% agree... which is why for the last 15 posts I have said it is a shame CDC/NIH/FDA don't take it seriously and study it... (vitamin c and zinc drips)

 

[dragontamer5788]

I 100% agree... which is why for the last 15 posts I have said it is a shame CDC/NIH/FDA don't take it seriously and study it... (vitamin c and zinc drips)

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

There's plenty of studies on this going on.

---------

There's this one that finished: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33576820/

Intervention: Patients were randomized in a 1:1:1:1 allocation ratio to receive either 10 days of zinc gluconate (50 mg), ascorbic acid (8000 mg), both agents, or standard of care.

Conclusions and relevance: In this randomized clinical trial of ambulatory patients diagnosed with SARS-CoV-2 infection, treatment with high-dose zinc gluconate, ascorbic acid, or a combination of the 2 supplements did not significantly decrease the duration of symptoms compared with standard of care.

So we've got a few studies that suggest that Vitamin C / Zinc doesn't help at all.

 

[Space Lynx]

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

There's plenty of studies on this going on.

---------

There's this one that finished: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33576820/





So we've got a few studies that suggest that Vitamin C / Zinc doesn't help at all.

No... you haven't been listening at all... Dr. Rhonda Patrick explained this over 3 years ago before Covid even existed, these studies all use Oral based implementation, and infusion drips completely alter the amount in the body by a magnitude impossible with oral tablets...

 

[the54thvoid]

I'll back up Lynx in that it's imperative to NOT confuse ascorbic acid via diet and IV use. IV use of Vit C has been shown to have benefits in a range of conditions. I think the issue is muddied because some profiteers and ethical idiots sell oral forms to deliver the same benefit when the science never suported that ingestion method.

But IV use of Vit C has been shown to have benefits in various conditions. Not a cure but a recovery aid.

 

[Vayra86]

You say any reasonable person yet

Yet what? No recommendation for or against. Which means: Apply common sense, which I agree is not all that common in this topic or the internet and all its idiocy.

It only means the evidence is not fully conclusive, which goes for almost all evidence we have gathered on Covid so far. But like most scientific theories we have extremely strong indicators saying its not helping, both historical and recent, and they all line up quite well.

So again. Common sense.

But IV use of Vit C has been shown to have benefits in various conditions. Not a cure but a recovery aid.

Relevance to the topic of curing Covid is zero. And it doesn't change because someone on TV said so. What it does do is provide new ammunition for people to avoid the necessary treatment or prevention.

 

[Vayra86]

I'm pro vaccine, not sure why you are trying to make my statement seem like it is not worthwhile. I only meant in support of those few who are still dying (largely older types), they should be trying vitamin c and zinc infusion imo.

I forget who commented earlier about taking pill vitamin C and peeing it out, but if you listen to the way Dr. Rhonda Patrick described it on the Joe Rogan podcast a few years ago, its not like that at all when it comes to drips/infusions, the body absorbs vitamin C and zinc in different ways, and the fact its not being studied at a higher level is really a shame.

I did and its mostly for the timing and exposure of it, its not helping anyone, Joe Rogan or Dr. Rhonda didn't help anyone with this. All it is, is conjecture and FUD. If its so interesting, do some goddamn research already so you can bring more than 'a wild guess'.

All this was is clicky clicky me material, and it serves only themselves. Its a cash machine.

You know what stands out? Every day you come up with a new soundbite on whatever subject and take it for truth or consideration. And the vast majority of it turns out to be plain wrong or misguided. I'd reflect on that, and my earlier response was also an attempt to have you do that. It seems you're very susceptible to someone telling something's true or might be true. And don't get me wrong - its not criticism per say. An open mind can be a great thing - but the internet has so many things to consider, all these open minds are very easily turning into lots of static and unable to filter to the truth and core of a matter.

And thát is what my earlier post was also about. Its a problem we are all dealing with, too. Information overload.

Stores around my neck of the woods need a "photo of you and your horse" to buy it now.

It's insanity.

Case in point.

 

[R-T-B]

Case in point.

To be entirely honest, it may be because of this news article that went viral that stores here are doing it:

Las Vegas store requires proof-of-horse photo to deter customers seeking ivermectin for COVID-19

A store in Las Vegas is requiring any customer who wants to buy ivermectin, a drug primarily intended to treat parasitic worms in animals, to bring a photo with their horse.

www.yahoo.com

But I can say that regardless of the rationale, it's sad it has come to this.

 

[the54thvoid]

Yet what? No recommendation for or against. Which means: Apply common sense, which I agree is not all that common in this topic or the internet and all its idiocy.

It only means the evidence is not fully conclusive, which goes for almost all evidence we have gathered on Covid so far. But like most scientific theories we have extremely strong indicators saying its not helping, both historical and recent, and they all line up quite well.

So again. Common sense.


Relevance to the topic of curing Covid is zero. And it doesn't change because someone on TV said so. What it does do is provide new ammunition for people to avoid the necessary treatment or prevention.

And if a vaccinated person does contract Covid, do we disallow a treatment (Vit C by IV) that has been shown to improve recovery?

Unlike Ivermectin, it is prudent to allow medicine to be used where robust research has shown benefits. Vit C by IV falls into that category.