Microsoft Aims to Modernize its Upcoming Windows 12 with Modular Design

[AGlezB]

I'm still on Win 10 Pro and will continue to be until it's no longer supported.
Better multi-monitor support is the one thing I'd like backported to Win 10 and the rest can burn for all I care, start menu and context menu in particular.

Microsoft if your're reading this: stop messing with the start menu. I'll take a customisable menu over a "smart" one any day.

If Win 12 is modular in the meaning that all the bloatware can be uninstalled or preferably be optional to install then Win 12 will be my next OS.

 

[chrcoluk]

So windows went from the last version of windows ever for "10" to a rapid release model.

Sounds like this version will have tight integration with the new bing.

TBH I don't like Windows 11, is not only demanding on resources.
I hope Microsoft address two things, one is bring back the start menu from Windows 10.
Second address performance issue since it is known that VBS cripple performance
which there are articles about it.

Agreed bring back 10s start menu with pinning, tiles, and also the taskbar with smaller icons and quick launch.

Concentrate on adding actual useful features instead of tinkering with the UI every 5 minutes.

 

[Easo]

Pretty sure the Win 10 the last Windows was not exactly said by Microsoft, nor stated on their web pages.
As for 11 - as far as I am concerned it has two big issues - context menus (some work is being done there at least) and lack of previous features. They really need to learn to move forwards without having to reimplement was was already there. I know Taskbar was rewritten from scratch, but... it took more than year for Task Manager option to reappear.
P.S.
Backwards compatibility is it's own curse I suppose.

 

[zlobby]

Just let me swap out the kernel with a Linux one, and possibly the shell and I'm sold!

 

[BSim500]

Yeah if we can really get rid of all the bloatware, because it's so modular it would be awesome

I agree with R-T-B that it probably means the exact opposite : Read-only Windows partition = "We intend to remove your ability to use tools like O&OShutUp10, etc, to debloat all of our 'desired' bloat (Windows store, more adverts, wall to wall Telemetry, etc) which of course will still remain". And if they make the games / applications partition read-only too, then kiss goodbye to game modding. And as others have said "modular OS" = pay-per-feature = You want Group Policy Editor? Let's charge $50 for that "enterprise" grade feature...

Legacy, legacy, legacy !

This is what has always plagued Windows since way back....they are so scared to let go of the past and design a truly NEW, forward-facing OS...and the longer they keep building in legacy-based code & features, the more the old timers will continue to insist that they are available....

IMHO, if you STILL need 32 bit anything, then you deserve to get left in the past, to rot in da dust like a prehistoric toy....

You sound clueless as to what "legacy API" actually means ("Win32" = both 32 AND 64-bit applications / games). "Win32" is just the name of the API for both , same as "AMD64" doesn't mean "limited to AMD", it means the 64-bit Windows API that won (vs the IA-64 "Itanium" API that lost). The "Non-legacy" API Microsoft means all the UWP "Modern App" framework bloated cr*p. And even if they did just mean no 32-bit Win32 apps, back in the real world almost half the 70,000 games on Steam and most on GOG are 32-bit. If Skyrim were released as a "modern UWP app" (sandboxed) you wouldn't be able to use mods like SKSE at all. Meanwhile the last attempt at killing off legacy (W10X) failed miserably precisely because the vast majority of bloat comes from the new UWP framework. That's why the leaked W10X ISO size was hardly any smaller than the regular (almost 6GB) W10 consumer, whilst W7 SP1 ISO (Win32 but no UWP) was virtually half the size at 3.1GB. It's painfully obvious what's really bloating out Windows, and it ain't the legacy stuff...

 

[Octopuss]

IF it wasn't coming from Microsoft, the theoretical/claimed concept behind 12 would be pretty sound, but we all know what this pizdéc company is about.
And if they do something right, they "make up" for it by fucking ten other things into oblivion.

 

[BArms]

Windows 11 required a useless feature that only a spying government would want. Let me guess, windows 12 will only install with proof of 6 mRNA boosters?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yeah ms loves changing the rules of the game a lot
Just noticed a banner on onedrive.com saying storage amount is going to change think i have 15gb free at one time I could of claimed for 50gbs+- free and I barely use 2gbs lol so I'm guessing they will drop the 15gb down to 5gb like most other offer.

There was a learn more of course lol and it was just spamming office 365 blah... so they're likely trying to do another push 365 subscriptions to might mandate it on win-12

 

[trsttte]

Pretty sure the Win 10 the last Windows was not exactly said by Microsoft, nor stated on their web pages.

It was stated on a Microsoft event by a "tech evangelist" (whatever that means - something like a product manager, the current role of the guy at least), and later confirmed by Microsoft PR

Why Microsoft is calling Windows 10 'the last version of Windows'

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

When I reached out to Microsoft about Nixon's comments, the company didn't dismiss them at all. "Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers," says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. "We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations."

 

[Shihab]

I agree with R-T-B that it probably means the exact opposite : Read-only Windows partition = "We intend to remove your ability to use tools like O&OShutUp10, etc, to debloat all of our 'desired' bloat (Windows store, more adverts, wall to wall Telemetry, etc) which of course will still remain". And if they make the games / applications partition read-only too, then kiss goodbye to game modding. And as others have said "modular OS" = pay-per-feature = You want Group Policy Editor? Let's charge $50 for that "enterprise" grade feature...

Most of what Shutup10 does is modify configs that are accessible by the user. Making OS own binaries read-only (and I'm using the term loosely here) wouldn't change that. They'd still need user-editable (even if not by the users themselves) config files/structures/whatever.

As for debloating, the forms I recall almost always use the OS own tools (add/remove programs/features and whatever they call their powershell-based package manager). Now, one could argue that those features could be made immutable as well, but I personally doubt it. Doing so would require re-imaging the entire OS just to push an update for, say, the calculator app.
Going read-only without first going modular would be a nightmare to Microsoft as well. Imagine having to repackage and distribute a 4GB image every-time you update a 4MB library...

All-in-all, I don't think making c:/windows immutable would, by itself, make much difference (save for security and reliability).

 

[Easo]

It was stated on a Microsoft event by a "tech evangelist" (whatever that means - something like a product manager, the current role of the guy at least), and later confirmed by Microsoft PR

Why Microsoft is calling Windows 10 'the last version of Windows'

The Verge is about technology and how it makes us feel. Founded in 2011, we offer our audience everything from breaking news to reviews to award-winning features and investigations, on our site, in video, and in podcasts.

www.theverge.com

That's basically corpo speech. Long time in the future, considering OS 10 year life cycle doesn't seem that far fetched.

 

[trsttte]

That's basically corpo speech. Long time in the future, considering OS 10 year life cycle doesn't seem that far fetched.

Of course it's corpo speech, but it's still representative of their intentions at the time. The longer life cycle just means they tried the concept for a while but at some point must have realized that it was better to do a new version as keeping the version constant probably was keeping them away from headlines and free publicity.

 

[Tahagomizer]

Ah yes, modular Windows.
Module 0: Windows and whatever,
Modules 1-65536: Data mining and spyware called "telemetry",
Modules 65537-262144: ads and forced Bing
Module 262145: A unique bluescreen due to a buffer overflow in the module counter.

 

[Karti]

So they are slowly going back to the design of Win 8.1?

Also

*laughs in Linux*

 

[MrNobodyHD]

Just give windows 7 modernized with no bullshit bloatware and be done with windows releases. simple as that

 

[Ahhzz]

Modular = Pay per feature guaranteed.

We can monetise many features taken for granted, like the scumbags BMW with their cars and having to pay to unlock heated seats and the like.

PCI-E 5 support, that'll be an extra $20, hybrid cpu's another $50, access to the registry $5, 10GB-E $20, DirectStorage $10

M$ has been pushing the Software/OS as a Service HARD lately (see Windows 365), and this will just further cement that process.

Most of what Shutup10 does is modify configs that are accessible by the user. Making OS own binaries read-only (and I'm using the term loosely here) wouldn't change that. They'd still need user-editable (even if not by the users themselves) config files/structures/whatever.

As for debloating, the forms I recall almost always use the OS own tools (add/remove programs/features and whatever they call their powershell-based package manager). Now, one could argue that those features could be made immutable as well, but I personally doubt it. Doing so would require re-imaging the entire OS just to push an update for, say, the calculator app.
Going read-only without first going modular would be a nightmare to Microsoft as well. Imagine having to repackage and distribute a 4GB image every-time you update a 4MB library...

All-in-all, I don't think making c:/windows immutable would, by itself, make much difference (save for security and reliability).

This is the same sort of ... reponse ... that I heard from several pundits when Windows 8 betas were showing off the mass quantity of telemetry gathering that was occuring: "Of course they're gathering this data; this is a beta! They won't leave these functions in place in the live product!"

 

[AsRock]

Thought we were talking windows 13 oohh maybe not windows 14 by now hahahahahhaha.

Although 13 is a number of change maybe for the better HA!.

 

[Mahboi]

You can do everything in powershell if you actually learn to use it, problem is mostly no one does. Windows can already run batch scripts very easily

I have to use powershell for work right now. And frankly it makes GNU look like a heavenly host of good software in comparison.
I don't think PS will ever be broadly adopted.

 

[Shihab]

This is the same sort of ... reponse ... that I heard from several pundits when Windows 8 betas were showing off the mass quantity of telemetry gathering that was occuring: "Of course they're gathering this data; this is a beta! They won't leave these functions in place in the live product!"

The similarity being...?

 

[Octopuss]

The few rare occasions I saw powershell it looked like programming to me. I was like who the fuck would willingly learn this? It makes zero sense.

 

[Ahhzz]

The similarity being...?

The similarity being that neither you, nor the aforementioned pundits, were actually aware of the reality of what the final outcome would/will be, and yet both confidently displayed a determined resolution that flew in the face of past historical evidence. In the earlier instances, they were proven miserably, extensibly, exhaustively incorrect. Time will determine the results of the more recent assertions.

Now, one could argue that those features could be made immutable as well, but I personally doubt it. Doing so would require re-imaging the entire OS just to push an update for, say, the calculator app.

Presenting the assumption that Microsoft would never take steps that would inconvenience end-users, solely for the sake of their bottom line, is ludicrous. They've proven over and over that they are willing to push as far as society will let them in pursuit of profit, and then a bit further, just to see what they can get away with.

 

[Shihab]

The similarity being that neither you, nor the aforementioned pundits, were actually aware of the reality of what the final outcome would/will be, and yet both confidently displayed a determined resolution that flew in the face of past historical evidence. In the earlier instances, they were proven miserably, extensibly, exhaustively incorrect. Time will determine the results of the more recent assertions.

Presenting the assumption that Microsoft would never take steps that would inconvenience end-users, solely for the sake of their bottom line, is ludicrous. They've proven over and over that they are willing to push as far as society will let them in pursuit of profit, and then a bit further, just to see what they can get away with.

"I doubt Microsoft would do a very specific thing" and "Microsoft would never inconvenience users" are two different propositions. Not even in the same ballpark.
The reasons I've laid out as to why this is improbable weren't that it would *just* inconvenience the user, but also because it would make Microsoft's own life more difficult, as elaborated on the paragraph immediately after the one you've quoted. A reasoning that applies even from a cynic pov.

Now, I'd love to hear the historical evidence that paints Microsoft as imbeciles habitually deploying tech that harms everyone, including themselves. I'd also appreciate not putting me on the same stand with shills and apologists.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Win12 already? This is the unofficial admittance that Win11 is a total piece of garbage, that is a resource hog way more than Vista used to be back then...