Microsoft butchering Xbox Studios

[dirtyferret]

Nope. As I said, the videogame industry overtook Hollywood in the early Nineties (in revenue)

if you are just talking box office then yes, but they don't include VHS/DVD sales, pay per view movies, blockbuster rental deals, licensing merchandise etc., although I'm sure there were some years with high Arcade revenue in the early 80's they may have been on equal footing. Regardless, both the film and game industry have seen heavy consolidation (as have many other industries) these previous years and none have helped the consumer in any way

 

[cvaldes]

if you are just talking box office then yes, but they don't include VHS/DVD sales, pay per view movies, blockbuster rental deals, licensing merchandise etc., although I'm sure there were some years with high Arcade revenue in the early 80's they may have been on equal footing. Regardless, both the film and game industry have seen heavy consolidation (as have many other industries) these previous years and none have helped the consumer in any way

Sure, back then Hollywood considered the film industry to be box office revenues. That was THEIR metric at the time.

Hollywood still holds very firmly to that bias. If a given film doesn't have great box office revenues, they hesitate on the idea of a sequel. If Barbie wasn't a smash box office hit, there would be little talk of a sequel.

The main exception are comic book/superhero franchises. Studios know from experience they can consistently fill a certain number of theater seats from the same people who will watch the same CGI filled schlock with some wardrobe changes and a new title.

If you go to an old school Hollywood business site like Box Office Mojo even today, you will see that their primary focus is still box office revenue (usually split between US domestic and international). The film budget comes out of the film division, they look at the box office receipts first.

 

[dirtyferret]

The film budget comes out of the film division, they look at the box office receipts first.

It helps their marketing being out front with those numbers as people want see movies that other people see. They also do a good job on hiding overall numbers (revenue outside of box office) so actors & writers (union members) can't see them. I worked in marketing for a large entertainment conglomerate that owned cable & broadcast networks, film and video game publishing studios.

 

[Assimilator]

There's evidence that the subscription models offered by both Xbox Game Pass and PlayStation Pass Premium are reaching the limit for audience growth.

And therein lies the downside of the subscription model: shareholders are sold the fiction that the line indicating user count will keep trending upwards, but there isn't an infinite number of people in the world. This is what killed Stack Overflow and will ultimately kill most companies that have large shareholders that don't understand the basics of how reality works.

 

[thesmokingman]

Fuck XBOX and MS.

Ironically, Asians are the largest market for them, but hey hate on whiteys!!

 

[dirtyferret]

And therein lies the downside of the subscription model: shareholders are sold the fiction that the line indicating user count will keep trending upwards

hey, that's how MLM schemes work. The subscription model has two parts, get the subscribers and monopolize. That way once subscriber growth stalls, you just raise the subscription while introducing new revenue streams (see Netflix, Amazon, Apple, etc., etc.,)

 

[LabRat 891]

Addressing the thread title, alone:
What'd we expect? Msft is 'trimming the fat' (from their PoV). All those studios and teams cost money, whether they're making profitable games, or not.

It'll upset things, yes.
But, the past has taught us: those 'let go' (of exceptional competency/passion), often found or join-up to a smaller (better) studio.

TBQH, Msft 'gutting' and 'quartering' Zenimax/Bethesda is 'the good ending'.
All that talent, will not be under the thumb of Msft, alone.

 

[cvaldes]

The best and brightest are usually the first to leave. Mikami left in February 2023 and some people probably walked out the door right quickly after. Undoubtedly many who still had jobs on Monday will be looking outside of Microsoft today regardless of whether or not they've been reassigned to another game studio.

And yes, for sure there will be a handful of very talented people who decide to do something other than work in the videogame industry. These sort of layoffs are a proven way to motivate people do expand their horizons and seek out new challenges in life. It's not just toilers pulling the galley oars to get the next Hi-Fi Rush, Redfall or Gollum out the door.

And when the best and brightest are gone, there's a less capable team left behind pulling those oars and the quality drops.

As I've said several times in this forum before, consolidations in any industry are generally bad all around except for shareholders.

 

[LabRat 891]

The best and brightest are usually the first to leave. Mikami left in February 2023 and some people probably followed him out the door. Undoubtedly many who still had jobs on Monday will be looking outside of Microsoft today regardless of whether or not they've been reassigned to another game studio.

Good Talent being forced out of a 'Toxic' business culture, doesn't sound so bad (for the rest of us*).

*I'm sure 'on a personal level' this is 'not fun'. Esp. for those w/ families to support.

 

[thesmokingman]

Good Talent being forced out of a 'Toxic' business culture, doesn't sound so bad (for the rest of us*).

*I'm sure 'on a personal level' this is 'not fun'. Esp. for those w/ families to support.

It's sad though because they're being forced out to make way for delusional DEI quotas.

 

[dirtyferret]

*I'm sure 'on a personal level' this is 'not fun'. Esp. for those w/ families to support.

I recall reading an article recently the avg game developer career was 4-6yrs. I'm guessing a number of people leave the industry after they start a family for a more stable career.

 

[LabRat 891]

It's sad though because they're being forced out to make way for delusional DEI quotas.

Yes, it is sad. However, (ideally) it's a self-resolving issue.

(Ideally) If Msft keeps up with 'those initiatives' and force out good talent, eventually they'll have to shrink msft gaming, and those folks will be contributing to non-DEI projects.

I recall reading an article recently the avg game developer career was 4-6yrs. I'm guessing a number of people leave the industry after they start a family for a more stable career.

If true, this would help explain the 'organic' appearance of completely unrelatable characters and story directions.
If there aren't 'family people' in the industry, then no games will reflect those values, experiences, etc.

 

[cvaldes]

Good Talent being forced out of a 'Toxic' business culture, doesn't sound so bad (for the rest of us*).

*I'm sure 'on a personal level' this is 'not fun'. Esp. for those w/ families to support.

I've walked away from jobs on my own volition. I've also part of a Reduction In Force just like this recent studio closure episode. I've worked for good companies and bad companies, good bosses and bad bosses. I've left places in good times and bad, both for the companies themselves and my own personal situation.

I didn't say these layoffers were always fun. But they are often a very good opportunity for A.) personal growth, and B.) expanding career options.

At one Fortune 500 company I worked for, the management was taking the company in a direction that many employees thought was wrong. When the first wave of layoffs hit, there were people virtually waving "Pick me! Pick me!" so they could get the severance package. Many who did not get selected left on their own terms anyhow.

Again, the best and brightest are typically the first to leave because they have more opportunities elsewhere and have the determination and willpower to try something else.

There's also something to be said about employee morale for those who retain their jobs. It's usually not good. That in itself is a strong motivator to get people to polish their resumés and LinkedIn profiles...

You think that Arkane Lyon studio head is happy to be working for Microsoft today? He's still getting a paycheck.

 

[dirtyferret]

I didn't say these layoffers were always fun. But they are often a very good opportunity for A.) personal growth, and B.) expanding career options.

Also a good opportunity to lose your a) house b) savings c) marriage
Knock on wood Ive been lucky and left a more fun but more volatile career for a boring yet steadier career (also more pay) over a decade ago. I do have friends who had to move several states away from their kids to get a new job.

Again, the best and brightest are typically the first to leave because they have more opportunities elsewhere and have the determination and willpower to try something else.

Yes but also the ones with the most connections. I've had a few bosses (over the decades) hire their out of work buddies as "gurus".

 

[overclockedamd]

All I can see in my head is the heres Johnny scene from the shining and Xbox owners screaming in the bathroom with a knife while MS breaks in with an axe to butcher the studios.

 

[Kapone33]

Fuck XBOX and MS.

Ironically, Asians are the largest market for them, but hey hate on whiteys!!

Racism in Gaming is not welcome. I could show you 10000 examples in Games that belie your opinion.

 

[bug]

Well, there are people today enjoying today's videogames.

Remember that people who played Pacman, Kong, or Space Invaders when those games came out (Seventies and Eighties) were really part of the 0.1%. Not only are we not going back to 2005, the videogame industry is not going back to 1995, 1985 or 1975 either.

And you can play those games anyhow on your oc-ed custom cooled 14900KS/RTX 4090.

So you can't infer people will play games as long as games are fun to play, regardless of who makes them, unless I spell it out for you.

 

[cvaldes]

People play games. Leisure is part of human existence. If Zenimax/Bethesda/Xbox goes under, people will find something else to do. And it doesn't necessarily have to be videogames.

Remember that Nintendo has been around for 130+ years, long before videogames. They still make some money selling little sheets of colored cardboard they call Pokemon cards.

Sad for the people who got cut from Microsoft. Sad for the people who are still there who are forced to pull the oars a little harder. But frankly, there's probably a brighter future for those not writing videogames for Microsoft. They might have to tighten their belts for the short term but for many it's an opportunity.

Anyhow it is highly unlikely that these will be Microsoft's last layoffs from their gaming division.

If they don't turn around Xbox revenue real soon, it's probable that more will get axed especially since Microsoft has already demonstrated a propensity to choose that option.