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New RTX 5090 + 9800X3D build: ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS WIFI a good choice?

Marketing rubbish? cynicism is the curse of investigation...

High-end motherboards have a large amount of VRMs (Voltage Regulator Modules) due to several reasons:
Before responding to your points, everything you listed is just that, marketing rubbish.
  1. Handling power-hungry components: High-end motherboards are designed to support powerful CPUs and GPUs, which require more voltage and current. A higher number of VRMs allows for better power distribution and regulation, ensuring stable operation and reduced heat generation.
As @dgianstefani just pointed out, the 10 phase ASUS board can put out a peak of 1300 WATTS! No consumer CPU has ever come close to that. You dont need a VRM that big. Modern "high end" boards are vastly overbuilt far beyond what is needed, for marketing purposes. You dont need 19 phases, or 16, or 12, hell you dont even need 10 to run modern CPUs. It's all a gigantic waste.
  1. Overclocking: High-end motherboards are often targeted at enthusiasts and overclockers who push their systems to extreme limits. Multiple VRMs with high-quality components and advanced phase designs help to maintain stable voltage delivery, even at high frequencies and currents.
Overclocking is nearly obsolete. And you dont need 19 phases to push another 400mhz out of a 9800x3d with PBO. Also, see point 1, the VRMs are WAY overbuilt for anything you will realistically see.
  1. Reducing heat generation: VRMs generate heat as they regulate voltage. A larger number of VRMs allows for more efficient heat dissipation, as the heat is spread across multiple components rather than concentrated on a single, larger VRM. This reduces the risk of thermal throttling and maintains system stability.
Again, see point 1. With modern MOSFETs you're splitting hairs over 5 watts to 7 watts of heat on modern CPUs. MAYBE pushing 10-15 with an overclocked 14900k. We call this the law of diminishing returns.
  1. Improved power delivery: Multiple VRMs enable better power delivery by dividing the workload between them. This reduces the burden on individual VRMs, making them more efficient and less prone to overheating or instability.
Again, diminishing returns. Quality of MOSFETs matters far more then the quantity of MOSFETs. A quality 8 phase VRM will beat out any 19 phase mediocre VRM.
  1. Support for high-core-count CPUs: As CPUs with increasing core counts become more common, high-end motherboards require more VRMs to handle the increased power demands. This ensures stable operation and reduces the risk of system instability or crashes.
  2. Enhanced system stability: A higher number of VRMs contributes to improved system stability, particularly under heavy loads or during overclocking. This is because each VRM can handle a specific portion of the total power requirement, reducing the likelihood of voltage fluctuations or drops.
Both of these were already covered by your 4 previous points.
 
I wanted to add to my earlier reply
do you think i'll be okay with a 2x24GB DDR5 + RTX 5090 + 9800X3D setup for the long haul?
MY JOURNEY:
I want to share the procedure I did when building my PC as it may help you out. While somethings in this may seem overboard, I don't care, I'm investing a good amount of money into my build so I always take precautions. Keep in mind I am always looking at the failure end of things, the what if, or this could happen, I don't dwell on it, but I do keep it in mind. The way I see it is if there is a way set it up so certain failure wont happen, it doesn't interfere with the budget, or doesn't over complicating things, then why not just do it, which is what I did on my build (I'll explain this with my GPU and the CPU).

HOW OFTEN I WOULD BUILD MY PC:
I usually get a new PC every 5-6 years and I always have it built (Until now I've never built it myself so this is the very first time I put my own PC together. Knowing how all these components are and the way marketing works companies cause FOMO (On purpose or not, it's a part of marketing). I wanted to go way beyond that so I knew by building my PC to the point there would be nothing that could use the power of anything I have for at least another 7 years past the original 5-6 year mark. I know how games on PC are built which means understanding the main component around that is the GPU which revolves around the video RAM. This was going to be the most expensive part on my entire build. For me not falling into the FOMO trap is still some times difficult, but I have a way to refocus and not let myself get distracted which did happen a several times during this build.

WHAT I WANT MY BUILD TO DO:
My build is specifically for playing games, surfing the net, watching movies, and editing 4k 360 video. I set my build up to go with DDR5

GETTING LUCKY:
Anyone that says luck doesn't play any part in building is not in reality (The silicone lottery plays a major part in this) Anyway I got lucky with a lot of my components by either getting the one component out of all the others that didn't have certain problems others did (Such as the motherboard in this case) or avoiding the connector issue causing fires with the RTX 4090. I always get Corsair PSU and it turned out that Corsair just happened to make the single cord for the GPU to PSU connector so it was compatible. Furthermore at this time only the RTX series 30 and 40 GPUS had a setting in certain sites like youtube that would allow for watching videos better (And yes I think things like that are stupid). I also got lucky by finding out about the thermalgrizzly plate for the CPU and the anti sag support bracket for the GPU lian-li made. (I don't care how well the motherboard is designed to keep the weight of a GPU like an RTX 3090, I'd still rather have it supported to not put that type of stress on the plug in socket (This CPU and GPU bending is what I mean by setting up to avoid a problem (Sure it's unlikely, but I don't even want to chance it). The motherboard I got also already had the BIOS upgrade it needed for 13th Gen CPU. If not, because the motherboard doesn't have a way to flash it with a USB drive, I have to do it from the BIOS itself which meant having to use a 12 gen processor in order to update the BIOS to accept the 13 and 14th gen Processors (Now you can see what I mean by getting lucky). I'm a professional entertainer (I'm a magician) I won 10k on an internet talent show for a major Streamer and that's how I was able to purchase my RTX 3090ti. To this day I will tell anyone that anything over 1k for a GPU is idiotic and to avoid it even if you have the money (But that is just me) anyway I was originally going to get a 3080ti but couldn't find one so I said screw it, bit the bullet and got the RTX 3090ti but I had a problem finding that and I got lucky to get the last one in Stock at a Best Buy (I'll explain the reason for purchasing it at Best Buy below in pricing) I also happen to get my CPU and my Case there at the same time. The monitor I got I found brand new on EBAY for about $525 with tax and shipping. A final aspect to take into consideration is how long a component has been out for. The longer it's out, the less likely chance of a problem happening is case in point the Samsung 980 and 990 pro M.2NvME firmware problems. I was originally looking at those but after reading a firmware issue happened I just went with the Kingston one I have now (Again I'd rather avoid any possible problems)

PRICING:
When it comes to pricing another thing people don't think a lot of people think about is the price to power ratio, (there is no point in getting higher powered components, then gimping them with other lower end parts (I explain this situation below in the upgrade section) there are certain things I will only get from specific places due to the amount of money I'm investing so I do not mind paying slightly extra or the TAX for things like my GPU and CPU I bought at best buy. If something happened, I have an actual outlet I can walk right into and get anything I need answered right then and there instead of having to pay for shipping and crap..You get the idea. Anyway RGB is a major problem for several reasons (Some of which I will not get into). While I get the appeal, I absolutely cannot stand RGB mainly because it's just an excuse for companies to jack up the price, but now instead of just being an accessory of choice, it's being crammed into and onto every single PC part as part of it and it cannot function without it. It's crap like this that affects the pricing for people like me. I'm almost being forced to take RGB whether I want to or not, and I will have to pay a higher price for no reason for component that has something on it I have no desire to have. Saying just don't use it isn't the point and a weak argument not using it isn't the same as not having it on the part. (As I said I have other issues with RGB being on parts that I won't get into). So for me getting an entire PC with no RGB is possible, it was a serious chore to pull off. Anyway I always search around for parts and I managed to get my motherboard for $180 brand new At the time it was still around $225-$250. When it came to the Case, I was originally going to get an NZXT H9 flow but it was out of stock everywhere (And I do mean everywhere even on their own website) so I settled on an NZXT H7 Flow which saved me about $80 which ties into the upgrade for my CPU, I was originally going to get an i9 12900k but realize it would be smarter to just go with the i9 13900k because not only had it been out for a while, but was only about $90 more, so I took the extra $80 left over from the case and used it to buy the i9 13900k. I'm also getting an additional 32 GB of RAM so I'll have 64, I'm thinking about even more again I know it's serious overkill but this is just how I think.

WHY DDR5 AND NOT DDR4 SINCE DDR4 IS CHEAPER:
This is where everything comes together nicely. I look at the overall bigger picture. In my head, despite DDR4 is still strong, I see it far too often where people (And this is mainly gamers) MUST have things built now instead of taking a few months to save their money then trying to use the argument they don't have the money (Wring they do have the money they just don't have it NOW (Things aren't going to become obsolete in 6 months or even 2 years for gaming especially with all the components out now) way too many people talk getting DDR4 parts to save money, then when things upgrade, they wind up spending more money to get a higher DDR4 or DDR5. Which means they didn't save money, they wound up spending more which is what they complained about to begin with. Instead of buying DDR5, they went the cheap route and wound up spending more money in the end only to do what they should have done in the very beginning to which they argued they don't have that type of money when they do, it just seem that way because of how they spent it. Just save your money and upgrade to a higher amount (Again things for gaming aren't going to become obsolete in the next 3 years. The way I see it is this, eventually everything is going to be moved over to DDR5 (Yes it's still a ways off) but why wait, just make everything DDR5 now. Besides DDR5 can do and use everything DDR4 can do so why anyone not get the higher DDR and cover it and not have to worry about it. When it eventually all happens, I am already setup and ready to go. Besides the DDR5 ram I got is going to still be far more sufficient when things do turn over to DDR5. I also believe DDR5 will shoot back up in price once things start transferring over so now I'm using this time to save money by buying it cheaper before that change happens and companies once again jack up the price. I'm looking into putting more RAM into my computer which I already planned to do.

UPGRADE YOUR WHOLE PC AT ONCE IS FAR MORE BENEFICIAL:
When you upgrade one or two components, you wind up having a problem with the rest of your computer. The power of the new component gets gimped then you wind up having to upgrade another component which gets gimped, and before you know it you've upgraded your whole PC. Here is what happened to me, the first usable upgrade I got for my PC was my RTX 3090ti, putting this into my computer worked because I had an 850 watt PSU. But I already knew was I going to run into was be able to utilizing the entire power of my GPU since I had older components. My CPU and RAM was gimping my GPU. Since I was already rebuilding my computer anyway this didn't bother me as much because I knew eventually I would be able to utilize the entire power of everything. This is where I ran into an unforeseen issue which had to do with my monitor. While I had access to the full power of my entire system, it turned out my monitor wasn't up to par so I still wasn't getting at the full power so now I had to figure out how to upgrade my monitor for a cheaper price. So as you can see, this becomes a vicious cycle because when you upgrade you need to make sure you aren't just gaining access to the power to price ratio, you want to make sure that you are actually able to use what you're paying for. Having access and being able to actually use what you have access are not the same thing) again this is just how I think.

MY SYSTEM AND THE PRICING: (This system was pieced out, and put together over 6-8 months. Also please note that these prices are a basic estimated price at the time of purchase, the best I can remember and would reflect total which includes shipping and tax)
OS: Windows 11 Ghost (Free)
MOTHERBOARD: ASUS TUFF GAMING Z690 PLUS WIFI (Ebay brand new $180)
CPU: i9 13900k - (Best Buy $580)
RAM: 32gb DDR5 @6400mhz (Amazon 2x16 GB RENEGADE FURY $180)
GPU: RTX 3090ti (Best Buy $1825)
POWER SUPPLY: Corsair RM1000x (Best Buy $130)
M.2 NvME: 1tb Kingston (Amazon $110)
MONITOR: Samsung G7 Odyssey 28" 4k @144hz (Ebay $525)
CASE: NZXT H7 Flow: (Best Buy $160)
CPU PLATE: Thermalright (Amazon $8)
GPU ANTI SAG SUPPORT BRACKET: Lian Li (Amazon $9)
GPU SINGLE CORD: Coirsair (Best Buy $19)

TOTAL COST:
$3726.00

Again I want to point out that sure I may have put this amount of money into my PC it still took me almost 10 months to do and by the time I was done, nothing advanced to the point anything I have was made obsolete, it's now over a year later, and the 3090ti is still relevant/valid and still will be even after a year of the 50 series cards being out. BTW Until this build, I've never built a PC myself and I had a lot of help from a friend of mine and I was embarrassed and frustrated that it took me over 10 hours to put this thing together but apparently that's normal for first timers. He also helped me tweak it to safely be able to run my CPU at a decent speed.

Anyway, that's my story

I hope this really helps
 
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average 8% to 11% improvement from 7800X3D to the 9800X3D overall between 30 to 45 games.

Highest improvement seen was +21% in Starfield

1731168269365.png

 
average 8% to 11% improvement from 7800X3D to the 9800X3D overall between 30 to 45 games.

Highest improvement seen was +21% in Starfield

View attachment 371026

4K Gaming results
1731335989517.png


is this a decent result?

1731351138694.png


Completed build

1731366155379.png
 
This looks low to me but I'm curious to hear from others as well.

Just placed my order for the 9800X3D and soon to be migration to AM5 platform from my 5900X and RTX 3090. I too plan to to pick up the 5090 when its available.

I've had the hardest time identifying a suitable motherboard for the 9800X3D, but my picks have come almost identical to yours chosen. I'll also likely go with an X670E motherboard from either Asrock or Asus (possibly Gigabyte but we'll see about that), and the exact same memory you've chosen. I think I'll go with 2 x 32GB for this build.

I'm not yet sure what PSU to purchase and definitely open to ideas!
 

That was with a borked version of 23H2 on the 7800X3D but the gpu score was still ok... I actually think I would have liked that cpu more if I knew windows was the culprit for the inconsistent performance in some game it would actually change install to install lol..... Gave it to a buddy for what I paid for it and it's so much better on 24H2.
 
That was with a borked version of 23H2 on the 7800X3D but the gpu score was still ok... I actually think I would have liked that cpu more if I knew windows was the culprit for the inconsistent performance in some game it would actually change install to install lol..... Gave it to a buddy for what I paid for it and it's so much better on 24H2.
Oh, thanks for that. Cause I was really wondering if I should go with win 10 or 24h2. After 30 tests I did on my 12900k 11 24h2 is completely borked on intel. Horrible results. So you are saying, win 11 it is for ryzen?
 
Oh, thanks for that. Cause I was really wondering if I should go with win 10 or 24h2. After 30 tests I did on my 12900k 11 24h2 is completely borked on intel. Horrible results. So you are saying, win 11 it is for ryzen?

Windows 10 is pretty good also I'd try both but 24H2 is much better than 23H2 for me.
 
this is terrible ... if windows 11 is bad for performance... because windows 10 is almost eol
 
this is terrible ... if windows 11 is bad for performance... because windows 10 is almost eol
Win 11 22h2 is decent on intel (win 10 is still faster) but 24h2 is horrible for Intel. . 15+% fps differences

I'll try out with a 9800x 3d next week as well and see where it lands.
 
this is terrible ... if windows 11 is bad for performance... because windows 10 is almost eol

Yeah the state of windows right now in general isn't good having to use specific versions just to get the most out of your cpu.

Win 11 22h2 is decent on intel (win 10 is still faster) but 24h2 is horrible for Intel. . 15+% fps differences

I'll try out with a 9800x 3d next week as well and see where it lands.

Not going back to 10 so hard to say if it's better or worse on my end but 24H2 has been good on all 3 of my ryzen systems 5000/6000/7000.
 
Not going back to 10 so hard to say if it's better or worse on my end but 24H2 has been good on all 3 of my ryzen systems 5000/6000/7000.
I got you bro, I'll test for you

I prefer the ui of win 11 but... performance has to be there, else I'm going back to 10.
 
STRIX X670E or X870E?

i have the TUF GAMING X670E Plus Wi-Fi in hand already, but can return it still if it's really that bad
ASUS TUF series motherboards are made with more compromises and for less money than ROG Strix tier boards. Nowadays it might not seem like that anymore, but if you take a look at older boards, you'll definitely notice differences between ROG Strix and TUF. That "military tested" is utter bullshit marketing stuff. If ASUS would really want to have those components military tested, then that mobo would cost much much more.

Marketing rubbish? cynicism is the curse of investigation...

High-end motherboards have a large amount of VRMs (Voltage Regulator Modules) due to several reasons:

  1. Handling power-hungry components: High-end motherboards are designed to support powerful CPUs and GPUs, which require more voltage and current. A higher number of VRMs allows for better power distribution and regulation, ensuring stable operation and reduced heat generation.
  2. Overclocking: High-end motherboards are often targeted at enthusiasts and overclockers who push their systems to extreme limits. Multiple VRMs with high-quality components and advanced phase designs help to maintain stable voltage delivery, even at high frequencies and currents.
  3. Reducing heat generation: VRMs generate heat as they regulate voltage. A larger number of VRMs allows for more efficient heat dissipation, as the heat is spread across multiple components rather than concentrated on a single, larger VRM. This reduces the risk of thermal throttling and maintains system stability.
  4. Improved power delivery: Multiple VRMs enable better power delivery by dividing the workload between them. This reduces the burden on individual VRMs, making them more efficient and less prone to overheating or instability.
  5. Support for high-core-count CPUs: As CPUs with increasing core counts become more common, high-end motherboards require more VRMs to handle the increased power demands. This ensures stable operation and reduces the risk of system instability or crashes.
  6. Enhanced system stability: A higher number of VRMs contributes to improved system stability, particularly under heavy loads or during overclocking. This is because each VRM can handle a specific portion of the total power requirement, reducing the likelihood of voltage fluctuations or drops.
Again marketing stuff. Also, having such robust VRMs on today's mobos indeed overprices them.

1. CPU and memory VRMs on motherboards have nothing to do with GPUs. Ideally, you'd want to have separate 12V rails for CPU and GPU on your PSU, but that's expensive feature.

2. You can't really do extreme OC today, as those chips are already released with significant factory OC. For extreme OC, you'd buy particular mobo, e.g. ASRock OC Formula.

3. and 4. and 6.

VRM temperature might be a concerning factor when doing extreme OC. Surely, higher amount of VRMs allow for more balanced current delivery and thus the VRM temps are better (lower). However, most of the motherboards have their default setting regarding CPU phases set to Auto, which means they'll use only so many phases that CPU asks them for (actual current requirement). Usual multi-phase design consists of 4, 6, or even 8 native (non-doubled) phases. Normally, another phase is activated only when the previous one gets utilized at certain level. When manually setting that BIOS option to "Full" or "Extreme", it will activate all phases no matter what is the load on the CPU. There is an efficiency loss while using multi-phase design with doublers. I tested this on 3 motherboards, and whenever I ran full phase mode, the power meter at wall outlet shown higher power draw than it was with Auto. I remember back then with ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXE when I switched from Auto (up to 4 phases) to Extreme (everytime 12 phases) the power draw was about 11 watts higher at idle. Now imagine what will happen with those overkill VRM setups that boards have nowadays (more than 20 phases).

Most of boards have default BIOS setting for phases utilization set to "Auto". It's not like you buy motherboard with plenty of phases and it gets them all immediately utilized. You have to change that setting in BIOS. And most of the users don't even know about it. "Oh, man, it has shitload of phases, it can deliver to CPU 1200A, it must be a freakin' good mobo!". And in the end, user ends up using only small number of phases on that super-trooper mobo, because that setting in BIOS was never changed from "Auto".

Even for Ryzen 9950X you don't need more than 4 phases. Let's say 9950X can eat maybe 250W in extreme scenarios. Let's say it uses 1.285V on average at that scenario. That's roughly 194 A that needs to be delivered. Four phases (each rated at 60A) can handle this CPU at 250W. Yes, VRMs temps will be much better if you distribute that current through more VRMs. But it will also use a bit more watts. I'd say aim for the golden middle path. Use twice the amount of minimum required phases, e.g. 8 or 12 (max. 30A per phase). (If I remember correctly, in ASUS boards this option is called "ASUS optimized" phase profile.) You will keep VRMs cooler and you will see only minimal increase in overall power draw.

Native multi-phase design can be upgraded with doublers. They can deliver much more power and if you think that it will automatically get you more stable voltages, well, it really depends on the implementation of those doublers. Supply options through native 6-phase design may be halved compared to 12-phase (native 6-phase with doublers) design, but sometimes voltage is more stable and this helps everything that heavily relies on voltage stability, such as overclocking. It can be done properly or not. The worst thing is, you really don't know until you have that board in hands and you look at it. Mobo makers does not share details regarding circuits, they say only it's 16+2 and each stage is rated for 80A. Sometimes less is better.

Personally, any motherboard with more phases than 12+2 configuration is overkill even if you wish to keep VRMs cool and at the same time do OC (does not apply to liquid nitrogen OC).

This is a good article, especially check the section about "Doublers":

Other good reading and watching:

5. Core count is irrelevant for VRMs. What matters is current which needs to be delivered to SoC and temps.
 
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How are you finding the Asus TUF X670E board?

Any reason you did not go with the MSI MAG X670E Tomahawk instead?
 
Super high end GPU, super high end CPU, budget last-gen mobo :kookoo:

I mean, it's gonna work, but idk if that's what i'd personally do
I don't think I'd class any X670E as "budget"
Last gen, sure.
 
I don't think I'd class any X670E as "budget"
Last gen, sure.

Chipset doesn't say much, for example we had things like the B550 Taichi or the ROG Strix B550-E (I had one) that had a B550 chipset but were otherwise high-end boards, but we also had some pretty bad X570's, this didn't change with the AM5 socket. Of course, it's relative if anything, but I personally consider a motherboard that doesn't even have a q-code reader, has plastic slots and VRM circuitry on the cheap side to be "budget"
 
the X870E chipset didn't seem to be much of an upgrade so i opted for the X670E chipset and went with the ASUS TUF Gaming mobo

do you think i'll be okay with a 2x24GB DDR5 + RTX 5090 + 9800X3D setup for the long haul?

Reference: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-t...-6e-motherboard-black/6523727.p?skuId=6523727
I'm going to try it on an ASUS X670E EXTREME board. I have replaced the 7950X for the 9800X3D. I had no problems with the swap. 9800 still just a hair under the 7950X in performance with AIDA64 tests. DEFINITELY much cooler too. I only use 1 M.2 slot and the PCIe has the ROG Strix 4090. Two 32GB DIMM's GSkill memory/EXPO II enabled/6000Mhz. That's it. Waiting for the 5090. The money is waiting. The DP2.1 is now required for my monitor to hit 240Hz. See how that works because I'm not opposed to upgrading the board if necessary. I'm DCS simmer and the 57" Samsung is a thing of beauty even at 5120x1440 and 120Hz. Good Luck!
 

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btw, my CPU temps dropped dramatically after switching thermal compounds...

"This is after gaming, etc.. hit a max of ~62C

i'm using this new Kooling Monster KOLD-01 thermal compound with the Corsair H115i RGB AIO"

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I reloaded MSFS2020 on this machine today and when it started loading to play the temp went to 85 and it cools instantly too. Idles at 39. 42 watching "TV". GameBar reported 210FPS while "flying" today. I wondered. REALLY?
 

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I'ma try this one grand X670E EXTREME board before I upgrade. Or at which time I might get a future 9950X3D and/or the RTX5090.
 
I'ma try this one grand X670E EXTREME board before I upgrade. Or at which time I might get a future 9950X3D and/or the RTX5090.
ull be sick to ur stomach ifu knew the performace diff of that crappy board cpmpared to this 1....also dont skimp or cheap out on psu..... overkill here will give u many happy years of using the same psu im cuurently on my 13th year on same psu..... been in 3 builds
 
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