Now political correctness infects a programming language!

[R-T-B]

They expect reality to be what they see, and if they see "hate" they attack it, the problem is everybody might not see hate, since its often not there. The scary part is when you start attacking wording, you begin attacking speech, which leads to attacking free speech.

The thing I find more scary personally is that free speech advocates seem to think that means they can say whatever they want without being attacked or critisized for it.

It doesn't. If you act like an ass you can and should be called on it. And that's freedom of speech too.

I'm glad somebody brought up the old IDE drives; that's where I first saw the master/slave terminology as well... and while I did think it was a bit odd terminology, nobody seemed to mind, and we tossed the words "master" and "slave" around while discussing these drives like it was nothing.

This isn't a new or "modern" debate by any means.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/11/26/master.term.reut/

Note the year.

 

[hat]

The thing I find more scary personally is that free speech advocates seem to think that means they can say whatever they want without being attacked or critisized for it.

It doesn't. If you act like an ass you can and should be called on it. And that's freedom of speech too.

Right... that just means the government can't censor you. If I say "fuck you!" and you punch me in the face, you won't get in trouble for violating my free speech...

This isn't a new or "modern" debate by any means.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/11/26/master.term.reut/

Note the year.

An article from 2003? Interesting. I still think it's every bit as ridiculous as the thread topic, but I'm surprised that happened in 2003, heh.

I left my gas chambers at home, sorry.

You can borrow mine, just give me a few hours for a trip to Taco Bell to "take effect"

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Are we going to have to rename the garden hoe?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh don't give them any ideas.


Back on topic, the reason why I never use master/slave in programming is because there's really no context that relationship makes sense. Processors see all processes as equal, just executing at different priorities. Operating systems only assign main threads so they know which one to watch for unresponsiveness (the user interface). Threads usually are just waiting for work rather than being ordered to do work as in a master/slave relationship. Most tasks that aren't directly related to the processor happens in serial so it's either doing its thing or it's not.

 

[MrGenius]

Older than the examples discussed thus far are the automotive transmission components known as the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder. Which were in use for decades before electronic computers, programming languages, or hard disk drives. And there's absolutely no good reason to change the names of those either. They are not people. They've committed no crimes against humanity. If you can possibly be offended by one then you have a major mental disorder. Change yourself. Case closed.

 

[RichF]

The tears over a terminology change.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Come to think of it, "subordinate" makes more sense than "slave" in computer technology anyway.

 

[Caring1]

If terms with perceived negative connotations need changing, what about dark arts, black magic, black hat, dark ages, dark side etc.
Movies in particular play a role in reinforcing this subliminal stereotype that black is evil and white is good.

 

[the54thvoid]

No problems with master and slave when referring to inanimate components. Or history. Slaves are not of colour, they are scattered through history, from all races. And you can't apologise for history.

Then again, no problem with the term 'subordinate' either.

 

[dorsetknob]

Two Techs came to mind for me
Electronics (mainly IDE Drives )
and the Transport Industry
They will want to ban all transport next
Cars are BAD.>>> Master Brake Cylinder with Subservient Slave Cylinders for Breaking
and Some have Clutch Master cylinders with Subservient Slave Cylinder

whole thing to me is Stupid and Blown out of all common sense.
next thing you know will be all wiring must be one colour as assigning colour to different wire's is Racist
(think of the poor oppressed Black wire).
Nuff Said.

 

[Frick]

But like the nature of programming itself, they're just abstract. Anyone who actually thinks using it supports slavery is a damn fool. You'd be hard pressed to find one single person from sampling millions who actually support slavery. And the ones who do are running their trade in the dark recesses of society.

Duuuuuuhhhhh

But still.

(and fwiw the greek daemon of BSD isn't the same as the christian demon)

 

[the54thvoid]

It would be quite awesome if everyone held back from massively generalised statements. The EU, or British PC is just as overt (and abused) as the US. I don't think anyone, for any reason can just say, the 'US' did this or that, when it is far more nuanced than that.
Ironically, singling out the US (as Qubit did in innocent error earlier) is technically just as 'bad' or misguided as the overbearing nature of linguistic PC.
Equality should be respected but subverting language to suit an illogical agenda leans toward an Orwellian future.

Double plus bad.

 

[Vya Domus]

I don't think anyone, for any reason can just say, the 'US' did this or that, when it is far more nuanced than that.

As long as we seek to not blame anyone in particular nothing will ever get properly fixed. Yes, against popular belief sometimes you can generalize, some things aren't nuanced and not everything is a spectrum. The sooner we realize that the better.

 

[erixx]

Comes to mind: "English discipline"... is it a counterpart to being quite advanced democrats? Or you are weirdos.
I have felt strange when confronted with this master/slave tags on hardware... since ever.

Every era has its vocabulary and thus... it's correct and incorrect words. Nothing new FFS!

 

[RCoon]

Keep it on topic. Dank Memes and shitposting will be deleted, as will tirades about political opinion.

EDIT: I personally don't see why it would need changing. We still have masters and slaves at Amazon facilities. Thus it's still a modern phrase.

 

[Vayra86]

TBH those probably weren't good terms to begin with. Hard to change though.

Also, I foresee a sane discussion, especially after the SJW term was introduced.

I like your sense of humour man.

But really... I think this whole SJW nonsense and the over-inflated, media-hype-fueled news about all these completely irrelevant 'issues' will die out sooner rather than later. If I look around in my direct environment, then yes, everyone agrees that being more 'conscious' about how things are worded is a good thing, and that's just about where it ends... if you do actually use those 'new' ways to word stuff, its usually with a smirk and meant to ridicule it than anything else.

Because really... who gives a flying ****... Its already difficult enough to use our existing language to get a point across clearly, for most people. Let's work on that first... Or in the case of programming, let's get some bug free code before we start worrying about these non-issues

 

[StrayKAT]

I like your sense of humour man.

But really... I think this whole SJW nonsense and the over-inflated, media-hype-fueled news about all these completely irrelevant 'issues' will die out sooner rather than later. If I look around in my direct environment, then yes, everyone agrees that being more 'conscious' about how things are worded is a good thing, and that's just about where it ends... if you do actually use those 'new' ways to word stuff, its usually with a smirk and meant to ridicule it than anything else.

Because really... who gives a flying ****... Its already difficult enough to use our existing language to get a point across clearly, for most people. Let's work on that first... Or in the case of programming, let's get some bug free code before we start worrying about these non-issues

Yes..Same applies to that Code of Conduct I mentioned. It's not like open source projects were full of discord and venom before. People generally want to be nice - the only person who thinks otherwise is the actual jerk who doesn't work well with others. People with such a predetermined, pessimistic attitude of humanity end up fulfilling prophecy by injecting their very toxic personalities into places. And then blaming everyone else.

It was going fine, else they would have never built vibrant communities to begin with. They've always had their share of oddballs and malcontents - heck you could say Linus himself isn't the most polite of guys all the time (I mean, just in general delivery. Not accusing him of anything specific). But people put up with it simply because open source thrives on merit.

It seems the Conduct guidelines have halted a bit though, since the Ruby team refused to adopt it. They never had a problem before. Why fix something that isn't broken?

 

[silentbogo]

Back on topic, the reason why I never use master/slave in programming is because there's really no context that relationship makes sense. Processors see all processes as equal, just executing at different priorities. Operating systems only assign main threads so they know which one to watch for unresponsiveness (the user interface). Threads usually are just waiting for work rather than being ordered to do work as in a master/slave relationship. Most tasks that aren't directly related to the processor happens in serial so it's either doing its thing or it's not.

You encounter it a lot more frequently, if you do low-level programming or bare metal, embedded madness, or electronics. Especially if it has to deal with a bunch of devices on a shared bus (e.g. SPI, I2C, RS485 etc).

Regarding the Github ordeal: it's even more ridiculous. Julie Horvath simply did not fit into a team as a character, but instead of adjusting, or ironing out things, she decides to avoid her boss, pour some dirt on her former employer and gain some publicity. From her own words, Github team did not value her ideas solely on the basis of her sex, and not inexperience. Quite a statement coming from a professional, who's employment history consists of job-hopping every 1 or 2 years, and having less endorsements on LinkedIn than me - a self-employed lazy bastard with no higher education.

 

[RejZoR]

If you're coding and "master" and "slave" trigger you by thinking it has ANYTHING to do with colonialism and slavery, you're an epic idiot. There. We had HDD's with master and slave positions and not once I thought about any of this crap. I mean how the hell can one be so freaking sensitive. Humanity is turning into this pathetic weak race that can't handle words. Sometimes I wish aliens just nuke us from fucking orbit.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

If you're coding and "master" and "slave" trigger you by thinking it has ANYTHING to do with colonialism and slavery, you're an epic idiot.

Actually it could. Games and simulations could model that hierarchy. Can't really think of any reason why anyone would want to but it's definitely possible.

 

[lexluthermiester]

This is ridiculous.

Agreed, absolutely fricken mentally retarded. Yet another example of "Political Correctness" being anything but correct.

 

[erixx]

In Spain we have singers in jail and an actor prosecuted because they used their freedom of speech. "Correctness" is absolutly not a "new", "lefty" or "modern" issue, if you think that you need to go to school. Inquisition p.e. is quite older... Think in small biblebelt farmer towns (we have them too) ... Ah ha!

 

[StrayKAT]

If you're coding and "master" and "slave" trigger you by thinking it has ANYTHING to do with colonialism and slavery, you're an epic idiot. There. We had HDD's with master and slave positions and not once I thought about any of this crap. I mean how the hell can one be so freaking sensitive. Humanity is turning into this pathetic weak race that can't handle words. Sometimes I wish aliens just nuke us from fucking orbit.

Weak is right. All you have to do is simply stand up to it. All of "outrage" culture relies on Alinsky's tactics. And people seem to crumble easily at the first one.

Rule #1: "Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have."

 

[RejZoR]

Actually it could. Games and simulations could model that hierarchy. Can't really think of any reason why anyone would want to but it's definitely possible.

I just can't think of how these people survive through a regular day when they get panic attacks and triggers from things like out of context words because they resemble something that happened 400 freaking years ago.

 

[StrayKAT]

I just can't think of how these people survive through a regular day when they get panic attacks and triggers from things like out of context words because they resemble something that happened 400 freaking years ago.

Things happening now actually, but they never seem to care about. Especially the tech world.

America should get credit for fighting a damn war that hundreds of thousands gave their lives for.. and got it's own president murdered to boot. It didn't create slavery.. but it fought hard to outlaw it.

 

[hat]

Things happening now actually, but they never seem to care about. Especially the tech world.

America should get credit for fighting a damn war that hundreds of thousands gave their lives for.. and got it's own president murdered to boot. It didn't create slavery.. but it fought hard to outlaw it.

And yet it's still not completely over. Slavery may be gone (for the most part, at least in the US) but discrimination still exists in various, albeit less extreme forms. How many more thousands of years will it take for humanity in general to quit being stupid? If we haven't blown ourselves up yet, that is...