NVIDIA 2025 International CES Keynote: Liveblog

[JustBenching]

I have no issues with them showing how they've improve frame generation personally I think it's awesome that they are I'm just not a fan of them omitting actual apples to apples performance difference especially when turning frame generation on increases latency at each step from 2x-3x-4x I will say I'm impressed it isn't much higher after the first step but until there are no noticeable artifacts and latency goes down at each step it shouldn't be sold as extra performance.

I am happy that the core DLSS technologies are improving for all RTX owners probably the best announcement period.

There shouldn't be any artifacts unless you start pausing and going frame by frame. The sheer amount of frames would make it impossible to detect anything out of the ordinary. The latency on FG is still a bit problematic, especially in games that have a problematic / laggy game engine.

The thing is, there is literally no other way to max out a 4k 240hz monitor without going with MFG. There isn't enough gpu or cpu power to do that on AAA titles, so MFG is very welcome. Wasn't really interested in upgrading but MFG has me thinking

 

[oxrufiioxo]

There shouldn't be any artifacts unless you start pausing and going frame by frame. The sheer amount of frames would make it impossible to detect anything out of the ordinary. The latency on FG is still a bit problematic, especially in games that have a problematic / laggy game engine.

The thing is, there is literally no other way to max out a 4k 240hz monitor without going with MFG. There isn't enough gpu or cpu power to do that on AAA titles, so MFG is very welcome. Wasn't really interested in upgrading but MFG has me thinking

Linus was picking out issues running on a 5090 easily in his video. Now are those issue the same or worse than 2x we will have to wait for reviews.

 

[JustBenching]

Linus was picking out issues running on a 5090 easily in his video.

I'll check it out

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I'll check it out

Again I don't dislike the technology but I'm not a fan of how it's was presented.

In their 5070=4090 claim with FG 4x of course which one has the lower latency becuase if the latency is significantly higher regardless of how many frames are being generated that isn't true.

 

[JustBenching]

Again I don't dislike the technology but I'm not a fan of how it's was presented.

In their 5070=4090 claim with FG 4x of course which one has the lower latency becuase if the latency is significantly higher regardless of how many frames are being generated that isn't true.

There is no way a 5070 is touching a 4090, lol. The fact that it needs MFG to do that means it has half the raw performance. I mean Jensen said so himself, that that's impossible without AI. So yeah, looks like the 5080 might be the one beating the 4090, maybe.

 

[Chrispy_]

I'm annoyed with how Nvidia portrayed 50 series but honestly the best announcement is DLSS RR, DLSS SR, and DLAA are getting meaningful improvements and that's coming to all RTX owners.

Hopefully yes, but lets see what performance of DLSS4 is like on older hardware first.

 

[wolf]

Ive read comments similar to yours a hundred times this past week. You are not doing your side any favors. Honestly, on the list of why im not buying amd GPUs "obnoxious comments by the company's fans" is at the top.

Amen.

FG doesn't necessarily double your framerate, therefore I assume the new FG isn't going to quadruple them either, so whatever comparison you are trying to make from that screenshot are wrong.

Not to mention they're both running different DLSS models, between that and scaling not being a direct multiplier in actual resultant framerate, and it's not possible to draw a reasonable conclusion on traditional (raster) performance based on that comparison - it would be no more than a guess, which of course stands a chance of being true, but it's not based on comparable data.

 

[Wirko]

Did you folks like his jacket?

Oh, it's up to 45% more ray traced than the last gen, but that was expected.

 

[Dawora]

Short work? I wouldn't bet on that, I think the 70ti will be close to the 4080

Looking spects its clear 5070Ti is faster than 4080.

if u just want to hope Nvidia 5070Ti fails so badly that it cant be faster than 4080, that u dream,not real world scenario

Yes it does double the framerate, that's the whole point, it inserts a frame between every 2 rendered ones thus doubling it. The scaling isn't 100% because it has a cost per interpolated frame.

I think we're entering the realm of some serious coping right here, 2X FG had ~90-95% scaling and clearly 4X has similar scaling as well from 2X perhaps ever so slightly worse, 85-90%. 5080 with no FG is barely any faster than a 4080 Super in this game, the writing is on the wall.

Thats what Amd fans is hoping for.
i realy see and feel the pain of Amd fans.

I hope its not too much for someone when they see 5080 is faster than 4090

Nvidia didn't show any raster gains and AMD didn't even show their GPUs. I was telling people that AMD exited the GPU business. They'll argue that UDNA is coming. They killed off RDNA. They don't want to pour any money into graphics. You'll be gaming on their compute units. It migth work, it might not but they don't care about graphics and they made it very clear.

I was expecting the 5080 on down to be similar to the Super update. Single digit improvements. They focused on everything other than raster. Can't even buy any old stuff. Shelves are clear at Microcenter. 5080 here I come. I can't believe how hard it is to replace my 6950XT. 7900XTX is only 50% gain. 4080 close to the same. I prefer to at least double my fps when I upgrade. This will be the saddest upgrade ever for me. I previously went from 1060 to 6950XT. That's 4-5x fps improvement. Are we reaching diminishing returns? Good news will be that we don't have to upgrade as often with such measly gains.

DLSS and FG gives nice boost, its realy cool how much Extra Fps we realy can get.
So when ppls say it sux or something its 90% of the time peoples who have Amd or never was using DLSS or FG

I think the problem is most of you just don't know math, that's why everybody is so mystified. In reality we have all the information we need.

View attachment 378843

This is from the same video, 580% to 1000% is a ~72% increase, that's the scaling from 2X to 4X, from the previous screenshot I posted in order to reach a final percentage of 185% on 4X the starting value must be around ~108%.

This puts the 5080 at a meager ~10-8% faster with 2X FG vs 4080 Super.

U will be so suprised and silent afther u see 5080 is faster than 4090

That's the thing - architectural level inprovements are non existent. Blackwell is shrinked Ada on steroids. Brute force. Nvidia added as much new compute units as was possible and tried to balance it power-wise.

You can tell from 5090's specs that efficiency is also a problem now. 4090 has 5000 shaders less but also much lower TGP than 5090. Were there any significant architectural changes, it would not end like that. Nvidia brute forced everything towards so called AI features (DLSS, FG). Jensen already stated before that this is the only way for new stage of gaming. I have my doubts, though.

As for new DLSS, please, don't say that 4000 series will be deprived of nothing and basically they just won't support something here, something there, there and also there and god knows where epse as well. RTX 4090 is surely capable (hardware-wise) for new DLSS tech when slower 5080 is capable (and anything below 5080 as well). Or change my mind, give me one real reason why 4090 would not be capable.

RTX 5080 will not beat RTX 4090 in native. Because:
- not enough computing power
- that would negatively affect 4090 sales which is Jensen's golden goose, they can't just release something more powerful and price it 20-30% less, or else they would cripple their own sales
- there will be RTX 5080 Ti with around 14k shaders and this one maybe will be on par with 4090

Performance-wise, from best:
RTX 5090
RTX 4090
RTX 5080 Ti (Super) with around 400W TGP
RTX 5080
RTX 5070 Ti (Super)
RTX 5070

That list have to be u dream from last night?

5080Ti slower than 4090
Realy? u joking?

Im so happy when we see benchmarks, this nonsens should stop.
5080 is faster than 4090

 

[QUANTUMPHYSICS]

When I heard people claiming that the 5090 would be some ridiculous price, I knew they were wrong. I expected $1999. He went on and on with all this boring content and all I wanted was the card and the price. A Keynote that could have been an email.

 

[wheresmycar]

U will be so suprised and silent afther u see 5080 is faster than 4090

No chance! Simply ain't gonna happen. We’d have to be completely bonkers to even entertain the wild fantasy of that kind of generosity! (well, expensive generosity)

5090 would be some ridiculous price..... I expected $1999

lol thats ridiculous in itself. Don't fall for the bait-&-anchoring tactic, it's a clever manipulation of expectations designed to make a ridiculous price ($1999) seem reasonable by comparison.

Again I don't dislike the technology but I'm not a fan of how it's was presented.

In their 5070=4090 claim with FG 4x of course which one has the lower latency becuase if the latency is significantly higher regardless of how many frames are being generated that isn't true.

I agree... this time around I was convinced Nvidia would play the FG/DLSS card so no surprises for me. Although I wasn't expecting such a blunt and misleading approach - not even a tiny asterisk with microscopic footnotes to provide clarity.

Ooh he has a new jacket, surely that will be recited in forum comments for years to come.

Just keeping this alive (hehe)

The amount of money this guy is making, he could come out with this (below) with pink lipstick on and still get a standing ovation and boardroom/stakeholder conga line festive spooning sessions.

 

[Dr. Dro]

lol thats ridiculous in itself. Don't fall for the bait-&-anchoring tactic, it's a clever manipulation of expectations designed to make a ridiculous price ($1999) seem reasonable by comparison.

Honestly, the 5090 is an unmatched and uncontested halo product, the 5080 is really what they want high-end gamers to buy. I feel Blackwell just about arrived at the performance level, memory capacity and overall engineering quality that I feel like it is a GPU I can own for many years. Ada was not quite there yet.

I got my hands on the expected Brazilian pricing and launch dates, the ones that launch 3 February are pre-orders, the ones 12 and 15 Feb are standard orders. I can't vouch for the authenticity of this list with 100% certainty so take this with a grain of salt, but I think this math is mostly mathin'.

Noteworthy are the MSI Gaming Trio and Gigabyte Windforce cards which look to be quite affordable.

 

[ModEl4]

Hmm, better pricing than what i was expecting.I wonder if there will be inflation (Nvidia surely knows based on historical data the demand that will generate with these prices, if they don't meet demand it will be on purpose)
To give one example regarding the effect that these prices will bring:
Let's suppose that 5070Ti is 4080/4080S level in raster (it shouldn't be far off from this kind of performance), if the $749 MSRP sticks then automatically it makes 4080S bad value at $699 because all of the advancements like MFG and especially neural rendering capabilities (like neural texture compression and material shading which from what I understand will not be possible in ada or older gen because it requires the shader array to be able to process neural network algorithms) I'm not even mentioning the other advancements like maybe better raytracing performance or possibly more advanced media engine etc)
So 4080S bad value at $699, what about RX 7900XTX, AMD themselves at launch though that they should be $200 lower than 4080 ($999 vs $1199) then when 4080S launched RX 7900XTX entry models went gradually to $899 so $100 less than 4080S, so if 4080S will be bad value at $699 in the same way RX 7900XTX will be bad value at $649 (only $50 difference this time vs 4080S)
Of course if AMD partners doesn't have stock of this item (which may be the case) it may stay at the same price or even increase or whenever, I'm just point out what price theoretically it should be and based on $749 RTX 5070Ti the entry level models of RX 7900XTX should be $649 with this logic, it may be an exaggeration but isn't far from the truth)
Edit: I'm not sure but it seems neural rendering will be supported from prior RTX generations also? my original understanding was based on the keynote: "one of the amazing things about this generation is the programmable shader is also able to now process neural networks so the shader is able to carry these neural networks and as a result we invented neural texture compression and neural material shading"
Edit 2: it seems it will supported on Blackwell only, it needs support for cooperative vectors:
The HLSL team is working with AMD, Intel, NVIDIA, and Qualcomm on bringing cross-vendor support for cooperative vectors to the DirectX ecosystem.Cooperative vectors will unlock the power of Tensor Cores with neural shading in NVIDIA’s new RTX 50-series hardware.
Links 1 & 2

 

[JustBenching]

A lot of comments on twitter fell for the 5070 = 4090. What the actual heck

 

[oxrufiioxo]

A lot of comments on twitter fell for the 5070 = 4090. What the actual heck

Bruh, people are simping so hard for Nvidia right now you'd think they were auditioning for the lead role in 50 shades of green....

 

[Vayra86]

Honestly, the 5090 is an unmatched and uncontested halo product, the 5080 is really what they want high-end gamers to buy. I feel Blackwell just about arrived at the performance level, memory capacity and overall engineering quality that I feel like it is a GPU I can own for many years. Ada was not quite there yet.

I got my hands on the expected Brazilian pricing and launch dates, the ones that launch 3 February are pre-orders, the ones 12 and 15 Feb are standard orders. I can't vouch for the authenticity of this list with 100% certainty so take this with a grain of salt, but I think this math is mostly mathin'.

View attachment 378916

Noteworthy are the MSI Gaming Trio and Gigabyte Windforce cards which look to be quite affordable.

Lol man. Shall we rewind to the moment you bought a heavily overpriced 4080? That was the best thing since sliced bread to you?

You are just preparing your wallet and cognitive dissonance to overspend again. There is literally nothing new here but DLSS4.

People have totally lost their minds.

 

[JustBenching]

Bruh, people are simping so hard for Nvidia right now you'd think they were auditioning for the lead role in 50 shades of green....

Well...you know, reminds me of fans of another company

Anyways, not sure if they are trolling for the clickbait or they actually believe that. EG. wccftech has an article titled "4090 performance for 549$". Tech and gaming journalism has fallen to the religion of clickbaitism.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Well...you know, reminds me of fans of another company

Anyways, not sure if they are trolling for the clickbait or they actually believe that. EG. wccftech has an article titled "4090 performance for 549$". Tech and gaming journalism has fallen to the religion of clickbaitism.

50 shades of Red ran into some budget problems they likely will announce it at a later date when they have time.....

 

[JustBenching]

50 shades of Red ran into some budget problems they likely will announce it at a later date when they have time.....

Curious though, what do you think happened? They got some info from what nvidia is going to do at the last minute and bailed to get back to the drawing board? Maybe there wasn't any plan to announce the 9070 at all and people just assumed?

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Curious though, what do you think happened? They got some info from what nvidia is going to do at the last minute and bailed to get back to the drawing board? Maybe there wasn't any plan to announce the 9070 at all and people just assumed?

Who knows with AMD man they bail on their own prices after Reviewers are like this sucks.... They also thought the 7900XT would fly off shelves according to reviewers..... If they were going to come out with 7900XT like performance with better RT at 399 like the AMD fanboys are hoping they would have announced it the thing now is even if it's 499 people will probably be disappointed.

I hope it's an amazing card but AMD doesn't seem the most confident about it but who knows hopefully we get the full picture soon... We don't even know how good the 5070 is unless people think being able to use MF FG is worth 550 usd because we know it can do that.

 

[Scircura]

Other scraps I gleaned from the product announcement page:

• DisplayPort 2.1b with UHBR20 on all 3 DP connectors.
• PCIe Gen 5. I didn't see link width specified, almost certainly 16x.
• Boost Clocks barely changed from the 40 series.
  • Up: 5070 is +1.2% over 4070 Super. 5080 is +2.4% over 4080 Super.
  • Down: 5070 Ti is -6.5% under 4070 Ti Super. 5090 is -4.6% under 4090.
• More and faster video encoders/decoders.
  • 5080 has 2x NVENC and 2x NVDEC, vs. 4080's 2x/1x. 5090 is 3x/2x vs. 4090's 2x/1x.
  • 50 series NVDEC has "2x the decode speed for H.264 video"

 

[Vayra86]

Who knows with AMD man they bail on their own prices after Reviewers are like this sucks.... They also thought the 7900XT would fly off shelves according to reviewers..... If they were going to come out with 7900XT like performance with better RT at 399 like the AMD fanboys are hoping they would have announced it the thing now is even if it's 499 people will probably be disappointed.

I hope it's an amazing card but AMD doesn't seem the most confident about it but who knows hopefully we get the full picture soon... We don't even know how good the 5070 is unless people think being able to use MF FG is worth 550 usd because we know it can do that.

Frankly I think they simply can't get that RT performance up at all, and that's what we're seeing unfold in front of us right now. They can't figure it out. Intel probably still scales better with it. Nvidia is somewhere in the distance. And the unholy combo with FSR/FG is probably even worse.

Look at FSR. Surpassed on all fronts by both green and blue. RT: was supposed to already be improved in RDNA3. It just ain't happening. The talent drain due to lack of investment is real and the old boys don't understand it.

I think the 'we go midrange' announcement was already heavy cope for their lack of development. They already were moving in various ways with 'RDNA 3.5' and what not. We've seen this a dozen times before in the last few decades. RTG is too slow and lacks competence on many if not all fronts. They can build raster performance just fine. Scale GPUs just fine. But featureset? It was never their thing.

A lot of comments on twitter fell for the 5070 = 4090. What the actual heck

The beautiful power of peer pressure and social media. You're not going to be the idiot saying everyone's wrong, are you? And people wonder why things are going to shit and they don't understand things anymore...

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Frankly I think they simply can't get that RT performance up at all, and that's what we're seeing unfold in front of us right now. They can't figure it out. Intel probably still scales better with it. Nvidia is somewhere in the distance. And the unholy combo with FSR/FG is probably even worse.

Look at FSR. Surpassed on all fronts by both green and blue. RT: was supposed to already be improved in RDNA3. It just ain't happening. The talent drain due to lack of investment is real and the old boys don't understand it.

I think the 'we go midrange' announcement was already heavy cope for their lack of development. They already were moving in various ways with 'RDNA 3.5' and what not. We've seen this a dozen times before in the last few decades. RTG is too slow and lacks competence on many if not all fronts.

Honestly I think they made a big bet on MCM for the gaming division hoping for a Zen moment and it did not pan out.... Sounds like they did have a high end RDNA4 chip planned but canceled it.

The reality is the low end stuff from Nvidia is getting worse and worse and AMD isn't offering alternatives that get people excited. If RDNA4 is a bust lets hope UDNA is the answer.

 

[JustBenching]

Honestly I think they made a big bet on MCM for the gaming division hoping for a Zen moment and it did not pan out.... Sounds like they did have a high end RDNA4 chip planned but canceled it.

The reality is the low end stuff from Nvidia is getting worse and worse and AMD isn't offering alternatives that get people excited. If RDNA4 is a bust lets hope UDNA is the answer.

Isn't the 9060 rumored to be an 8gb card? That will show them (nvidia ain't any better in this department, but at least they have a reason being stingy with vram)

 

[Vayra86]

Honestly I think they made a big bet on MCM for the gaming division hoping for a Zen moment and it did not pan out.... Sounds like they did have a high end RDNA4 chip planned but canceled it.

The reality is the low end stuff from Nvidia is getting worse and worse and AMD isn't offering alternatives that get people excited. If RDNA4 is a bust lets hope UDNA is the answer.

Yeah MCM or not, even if they had a bigger chip, they should have also had RT performance laying on the shelf to go with it. Which they might not have after all; RDNA3 was supposed to perform better even regardless of MCM. I think there were mostly promises, hopes and dreams flying around but people simply did not (manage to...) deliver. And this seems to be a recurring thing, not exclusive to Raja.