NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[shevanel]

i like the look of this card. looks really sleek and hi-tek... glossy.

 

[qubit]

Nvidia Fermi GF100 first working desktop card spotted

Looks like a GTX285...

 

[qubit]

Fermi A2 silicon alive and kicking. Jan 2010 launch

Production silicon comes with A3 silicon.

Fudzilla

 

[qubit]

Anyone interested in the above two posts? I guess today's 5970 launch has stolen the show.

 

[kid41212003]

Nothing really surprised, unless they will have them on the market this December.

 

[a_ump]

hah yea i finished the HD 5970 reviews n then checked this thread. I hope they do ship in jan just cause i wanna see the performance. Now jc, waiting for A3 silicon means they made some tweaks and improvements over A2 right? if so awesome, cause i want nvidia to have a good launch so that ATI prices will drop.

 

[troyrae360]

Nothing really surprised, unless they will have them on the market this December.

I think they are due for next december

 

[qubit]

hah yea i finished the HD 5970 reviews n then checked this thread. I hope they do ship in jan just cause i wanna see the performance. Now jc, waiting for A3 silicon means they made some tweaks and improvements over A2 right? if so awesome, cause i want nvidia to have a good launch so that ATI prices will drop.

Yup, +1 on that. Launch prices are over £520 in the UK. Extortionate!

 

[Zubasa]

hah yea i finished the HD 5970 reviews n then checked this thread. I hope they do ship in jan just cause i wanna see the performance. Now jc, waiting for A3 silicon means they made some tweaks and improvements over A2 right? if so awesome, cause i want nvidia to have a good launch so that ATI prices will drop.

Most of the tweaks should be on saving power, this card looks just a as power hungry as the GTX 280.
The way it looks is the A2 silicon might be a little too leaky for the liking.

This is just my assumption, very little can be done about the chip @this point.
Tweaking power consumption and heat output looks to be the most logical way.

 

[KainXS]

Will they rebrand a GT200 and make a mid-range DX11 card?
Very unlikely, but it is well possible.

So, the GT210 and GT220 are just pull out of thin air? These suckers are DX10.1 cards.
You can say they are not actually rebranded, as they are slightly different, but they are pretty much identical otherwise to their Geforce 8/9 brothers.

Actually there is quite a difference between a G80 and a GT200.
The GT200 is overall much more efficient than the G80 in power consumption and power states.
The GT200 also have parts of the die dedicted for CUDA.
The G80 also lacks proper DXVA support in many ways.

In terms of cost effectiveness, power consumption is also an issue.
For mainstream gamer, a more power hungry card (ex. 9800GTX+) requires a higher power PSU which adds to a good chunk of the system cost.
This is where the 4850 truely shines over other cards in that market segment.

actually it seems its not very hard to make an old DX10 GPU support DX10.1, remember, ATI did that very same thing moving from the R600 to the R670, and most of the GPU remained the same, there were only optimizations mainly, DX10.1 is an optimized version of DX10, thats it, thats why nvidia never cared about it, it wasn't worth the time.

well its simple when you think of it like this G80 was the father of every nvidia gpu since the 8 series began, then g92 came and had optimizations that wound up in later gpu's then the G94 came and proved to be not worth it so newer gpu's since the 9600GT weren't even based on it and nvidia went back to the G92, then GT200 came out which was an enhanced version of the G92 and G94 which was an enhanced version of the G80

I think that nvidia might just pull a fast one and release a GTS260 with 192SP, because they should have tons of low binned GT200 cores and the Quadro 3800 has 192SP 16rop, its a good way to try to level the playing field if they can get its power consumption lower, I would buy one . . . . .

 

[a_ump]

the 192sp i believe is the GTX260, GTS 260 would be nice though but i don't think it could compete unless they dropped the GTS 250's price to $100-110, The HD 4870 can be purchased for $124 for so why the GTS 250, which pales in comparison, is priced in the same range is beyond me but i believe if nvidia released a GTS 260 around $130 it'd be perfect price point and help nvidia regain control of the mainstream market.

 

[phanbuey]

yes the GT200 could hold them over, except for one caveat... its expensive...

and if they even try to lower the prices and start a price war in the mid range segment, nv will get slaughtered. They can't compete with ATI's simple design and the 5770/4890/4870... those chips can drop like little price rocks. And DX11 is a selling point despite NV's reluctance to admit it.

I think nv is just clenching as hard as they can trying to make to Fermi launch... anything they try to do now will have very little effect in the meantime IMO. Unless they just label the GT200 a sunk cost and start dumping.. that will cause a price war for sure - but hey... its a sunk cost.

 

[Hayder_Master]

i just want see the performance of GT300 also i hope come with low price

 

[Shou Miko]

I think they are due for next december

what i have been reading they will be released next year from January 25 til april 25 >_>

 

[Benetanegia]

A very interesting read from TechReport:

Inside Fermi's graphics architecture
Insider info and careful speculation take us deep into Nvidia's next GPU


http://techreport.com/articles.x/17815/4

Unless I have misunderstood it badly, they are pretty confident that high-end GeForce Fermi (GTX380) will be at least twice as fast as the GTX285:

The GF100's architecture means the SKU we've described (the GeForce GTX 380, possibly) comfortably outruns the GeForce GTX 285 in every way, to the point that (and we really generalize here, sorry) it should usually be at least twice as fast.

The GF100 will outpace the Radeon HD 5870 as the top single-chip graphics product of all time, assuming AMD doesn't release anything else in the interim, between now and January. Look for the margins there to be a bit more slender, and we refer you to our Radeon HD 5870 review for the figures that'll let you imagine performance versus AMD's product.

IMO they are saying "Look at our HD5870 review, because we have GTX285 SLI results there and that's the kind of performance we expect from Fermi cards". That's what I've been thinking since I saw the white papers, I have no reason to think GTX380 will not be at least twice as fast as GTX285. I had no reason to think HD5870 would not be twice as fast as HD4890 either, but the "failure" of one doesn't imply the failure of the other one, especially when Fermi is a complete redesign and RV870 is the last implementation of an aging architecture that IMHO was never thought to be taken to 1600 SPs*.

*In a "beind the scenes" story about RV770 (I think it was in Anadtech) AMD engineer for RV770 said that RV770 was meant to have 640 SPs, until Ati realised they could put 800 SPs within their die area budget and power envelope, due to the high die area efficiency. Another double up would have put RV870 in 1280 SPs and not 1600. IMO that was the plan when R600 was designed and the reason for RV870 not scaling so well.

 

[kid41212003]

It doesn't surprise me. I expected it at least to be faster than the last gen card x2.

According to nVIDIA CEO, GPU will be hundreds time faster in 8 years or something, I remember reading that somewhere, and if it's only x2 faster than what he said may not be true.

 

[a_ump]

yea fermi is all myth, and by the time they get it out its what'll bring about the 2012 apocolypse

 

[Binge]

ROPs 48

 

[mR Yellow]

In the meantime i'm enjoying my 5870
I will never wait for another card launch...this smells like the x1800 debacle all over.

It kept getting delayed and in the end it wasn't worth the wait.

The performance is just amazing with the 5870s...next upgrade is the next gen AMD CPU or i9

 

[Bo_Fox]

A very interesting read from TechReport:

Inside Fermi's graphics architecture
Insider info and careful speculation take us deep into Nvidia's next GPU


http://techreport.com/articles.x/17815/4

Unless I have misunderstood it badly, they are pretty confident that high-end GeForce Fermi (GTX380) will be at least twice as fast as the GTX285:





IMO they are saying "Look at our HD5870 review, because we have GTX285 SLI results there and that's the kind of performance we expect from Fermi cards". That's what I've been thinking since I saw the white papers, I have no reason to think GTX380 will not be at least twice as fast as GTX285. I had no reason to think HD5870 would not be twice as fast as HD4890 either, but the "failure" of one doesn't imply the failure of the other one, especially when Fermi is a complete redesign and RV870 is the last implementation of an aging architecture that IMHO was never thought to be taken to 1600 SPs*.

*In a "beind the scenes" story about RV770 (I think it was in Anadtech) AMD engineer for RV770 said that RV770 was meant to have 640 SPs, until Ati realised they could put 800 SPs within their die area budget and power envelope, due to the high die area efficiency. Another double up would have put RV870 in 1280 SPs and not 1600. IMO that was the plan when R600 was designed and the reason for RV870 not scaling so well.

What the heck dude? What's so hard to understand? No 5XXX series discussion in this thread.

 

[Bo_Fox]

actually it seems its not very hard to make an old DX10 GPU support DX10.1, remember, ATI did that very same thing moving from the R600 to the R670, and most of the GPU remained the same, there were only optimizations mainly, DX10.1 is an optimized version of DX10, thats it, thats why nvidia never cared about it, it wasn't worth the time.

well its simple when you think of it like this G80 was the father of every nvidia gpu since the 8 series began, then g92 came and had optimizations that wound up in later gpu's then the G94 came and proved to be not worth it so newer gpu's since the 9600GT weren't even based on it and nvidia went back to the G92, then GT200 came out which was an enhanced version of the G92 and G94 which was an enhanced version of the G80

I think that nvidia might just pull a fast one and release a GTS260 with 192SP, because they should have tons of low binned GT200 cores and the Quadro 3800 has 192SP 16rop, its a good way to try to level the playing field if they can get its power consumption lower, I would buy one . . . . .

Hmm, perhaps that's true, but ATI already designed their R600 with DX10.1 in mind. Before Vista was released, Nvidia wanted to push their G80 out of the door, before DX10 specs were finalized. ATI was working with Microsoft on completing the DX10 specs so that it would include some of the DX10.1 (and DX11) functions, but Nvidia got Microsoft to leave out some of the features that ATI included in the R600 architecture. The RV670 just had a couple more functions that Microsoft was glad to call it DX10.1 but oh man, Nvidia was so against that after having completed the G92 architecture (along with GT200 in the works). Oh well, at least the GT300 will also have DX11. DX10 sucked anyways.

 

[Binge]

In the meantime i'm enjoying my 5870
I will never wait for another card launch...this smells like the x1800 debacle all over.

It kept getting delayed and in the end it wasn't worth the wait.

The performance is just amazing with the 5870s...next upgrade is the next gen AMD CPU or i9

This is where it should be noted... no 5XXX discussion in this thread. Keep it Fermi based.

Bo... he made a good point and compared parts of each card. It was a comparison, not an advertisement for the 5XXX cards like mR Yellow just threw up.

 

[Bo_Fox]

Hehe.. just kidding.

But you just said that again:

no 5XXX discussion in this thread. Keep it Fermi based.

Ha! Just giving you a hard time..

 

[Binge]

Hehe.. just kidding.

But you just said that again:

Ha! Just giving you a hard time..

You should keep that to a minimum.

 

[Bo_Fox]

You should keep that to a minimum.

Shhhh...! Who says that comedy should be kept to a minimum?

I'm not sure how nvidia can pull this one out of the total nosedive its in right now... its gonna be some interesting marketing thats for sure. 5970 will beat it to market and even possibly a 5890 (r800 refresh) could even be out within 2-3 months of gt300.

Yep, you're right.. the 5970's out now. So that means Nvidia won't be having the fastest card until a dual-GPU version is out. Ahh, those X1900XTX vs. 7950GX2 days.. and the X1950XTX still did not do much. Perhaps that would encourage Nvidia to have a GTX 395 by as soon as February/March, if not May?