NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[TheMailMan78]

Erm,

1. As I stated, I wouldnt say my 8800GT is running this benchmark at all. It's doing 40 fps on a low resolution and no AA and 4xAF. I would NEVER, I repeat, NEVER play at those settings if I can avoid it. Even if I had to run at those settings at that performance (i.e Crysis high/very high XP tweak), I would never be satisfied and I would definately never say I'm playing it just fine. That is just NOT playing it fine. Period.

2. My point was that the HD5770 can't do the tesselation present on Heaven on a game at the settings most people play. For the record only 13% of people play at 1024 and there's much more people using DX9, meaning that most DX10/11 people HAVE to be playing on
higher settings. Those 2 stats just have to overlap. there's simply no way people have DX11 hardware on a 1024x768 screen or playing a 6600GT on a 1920x1200 screen.

3. Show me a HD5770 doing 30+ fps at 1680x1050 4xAA and 16xAF and you have a point. Until you do that, just shut up, because my point will still hold true.

Well you can keep twisting things up as much as you like but I hold the facts when you hold opinion.

 

[Benetanegia]

Well you can keep twisting things up as much as you like but I hold the facts when you hold opinion.

But which facts, which ones?

You don't have a case. The HD5770 is NOT producing playable frames in any of the links you posted and they are from a benchmark demo, not a game. A game has ALWAYS lower fps than its benchmark demo. And I don't have the slightless doubt that NO ONE will play a DX11 game with tesselation at 1024x768.

And blaming drivers 5 months after release, I don't know man, they should be ready by now IMO. If they are not, maybe it's time to blame AMD and give them a reminder. Maybe a "we are here dudes, we exist, we are your customers, what about working some?". idk just saying.

If you want facts, this is fact:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...chmarks-Top-article-of-October-2009/Practice/

This is how the HD5xxx series runs Heaven at the settings that men play there games. Yeah, groundbreaking. Outstanding performance.

 

[TheMailMan78]

But which facts, which ones?

You don't have a case. The HD5770 is NOT producing playable frames in any of the links you posted and they are from a benchmark demo, not a game. A game has ALWAYS lower fps than its benchmark demo. And I don't have the slightless doubt that NO ONE will play a DX11 game with tesselation at 1024x768.

And blaming drivers 5 months after release, I don't know man, they should be ready by now IMO. If they are not, maybe it's time to blame AMD and give them a reminder. Maybe a "we are here dudes, we exist, we are your customers, what about working some?". idk just saying.

If you want facts, this is fact:

http://pcgameshardware.de/screensho...nigine_Heaven_DX11_Tessellation_Benchmark.png

This is how the HD5xxx series runs Heaven at the settings that men play there games. Yeah, groundbreaking. Outstanding performance.

Your link is dead there superman. Unless the fact is "No Deep Linking Please!"

 

[Benetanegia]

Your link is dead there superman. Unless the fact is "No Deep Linking Please!"

I see it just well.

No one can see it?

EDIT: what about now? it's one of the links I posted earlier, just this time I tried to post the chart alone.

 

[Binge]

Pic is dead for me too. Bene-- really all you're saying is the 5970 is the only card that can benchmark heaven smoothly. It's got an insane amount of tessellation. You'd know the extent if you did any of this benchmarking yourself.

EDIT: Let's just say for a moment we can forget this ever happened. Are you excited about how many tessellation units are in the GT300?

 

[mastrdrver]

When it comes to Tessellation, G100 will clean shop since that is what it is designed for. It will do good in all other DX games without Tessellation, but when you turn on Tessellation, that is when it will really shine. This is the gpu ATI should have built and could very likely look like what will show up at beginning of next year.

What's even better is that even the lower class parts will be Tessellation monsters.

Hardware Canucks did an excellent article of this.

 

[Benetanegia]

Pic is dead for me too. Bene-- really all you're saying is the 5970 is the only card that can benchmark heaven smoothly. It's got an insane amount of tessellation. You'd know the extent if you did any of this benchmarking yourself.

No the HD5870 can do it as well. And the HD5850 can do it depending on your definition of smooth. The HD5770 just can't do it.

I have seen it in action and it's not so much really. It's the bare minimum if you are going to use it for displacement and it's really apparent on the walls. If you just wanted to use it to smooth things out, it's maybe even overkill, but for using for displacement is just the minimum you could use. With that amount is already producing "artifacting" in some places.

And like I said I don't think tesselation should be used for smoothing things a bit. You can trully make that with some more polys put in the right place and using better normal mapping on an special LOD model that would only be used on close ups. The problem is that games use small normal maps because consoles wouldn't keep up with higher ones, that's why tesselation is looking so much better than current games. DX10 allows for far far greater textures than what it is being used and most of the times the normal mapping is at least half the resolution as the color map. That's why it doesn't look so good. On production renderings you can get much better results, because better textures are used.

PD The link doesn't work yet? It's not an img animore.

 

[Binge]

I saw it, and I've owned every 58XX series and the 5970 cards. No joke, the 5970 is the only one that can do high res. Even then the frames drop below 30 at some points in Heaven.

 

[erocker]

I find it laughable that the heaven bench uses tesselation to turn ramps into steps. I'll be doing some high-res stuff with my cards when I get home.

 

[Benetanegia]

I find it laughable that the heaven bench uses tesselation to turn ramps into steps.

Yeah that's an evidence of the point I've been making. Heaven without tesselation is very lacking in the geometry department, like a late 90's game or a 2004 RTS game. Actual games would never be able to be like that, so tesselation would need to go on top of something much more detailed than what we see in Heaven (unless they duplicate work on the game, which is costly and unlikely) and hence would run even worse than Heaven. That (and tha fact that Dirt2 takes a big hit with T on while it has very little actually) is the foundation of my point that tesselation on games is just only now posible and only on high end cards.

I saw it, and I've owned every 58XX series and the 5970 cards. No joke, the 5970 is the only one that can do high res. Even then the frames drop below 30 at some points in Heaven.

Still playable. Or are we going to have a reversed argument, this time with me saying playable and you not playable?

 

[erocker]

DX11 for Dirt2 is worth it in the image quality department. Without a doubt. You need to play it firsthand to know.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

i have to agree with erocker theres a substancial difference in overall image quality when im playing the game

 

[Binge]

Still playable. Or are we going to have a reversed argument, this time with me saying playable and you not playable?

You can't play Heaven, it's not a game. What are you talking about?

 

[Benetanegia]

You can't play Heaven, it's not a game. What are you talking about?

I mean that if it was a game it would be playable at those frames. Dipping to below 30 sometimes is not a big issue and most of the times dual cards have very similar lows as the single GPU versions of them (absolute lows, median lows are still better than single). That's why I assume that the HD5870 has similar lows.

And it's not a game... that depends, what if you find it entertaining to fly around with the free camera? j/k

It wouldnt be much different from the simulator feature on Google Earth and I know some people who have actually spent some hours playing it... Now I' not kidding.

 

[Steevo]

I like google earth. I use it alot, locating customers, getting a good idea of new hiking, fishing, hunting, camping, gold panning spots.

And there is always the flight sim in it.

 

[bobzilla2009]

I mean that if it was a game it would be playable at those frames. Dipping to below 30 sometimes is not a big issue and most of the times dual cards have very similar lows as the single GPU versions of them (absolute lows, median lows are still better than single). That's why I assume that the HD5870 has similar lows.

And it's not a game... that depends, what if you find it entertaining to fly around with the free camera? j/k

It wouldnt be much different from the simulator feature on Google Earth and I know some people who have actually spent some hours playing it... Now I' not kidding.

Indeed, although heaven was never meant to run at 'playable' settings on normal cards (i.e. <£150) with the huge amounts of tessellation, it was made to really show some tessellation eye candy, something it excels at

In the end, the HD5770 isn't a bad card by any means. But it is not a high end card either. the second digit being a 7 should have given that away

Anyway, we all know that the nvidia version of tessellation is far more powerful than the ATi implementation. But what i'm interested are some real world benchmarks run by independent tech sites, games like dirt 2 and the upcoming AvP should be perfect. Games where tessellation is there, but is generally not the limiting factor for the high end cards (Although it's weird that the menu screen crowd in dirt2 drops frames to ~45-50 (1920x1200, 8xMSAA) whereas the in game crowds look pretty identical but don't take anywhere near the same hit).

Why is everyone getting so defensive anyway? It's good that nvidia have got some great tessellation going for them, it'll mean ATi will step up their game in that area anyway. but also, the big looming fact that everyone is overlooking is that the gtx380 STILL isn't out, and the hd5870 will be 6 month old tech when it does! The gtx380 NEEDS to be amazing, but so far the results are just the expected 'oomph', which i don't feel is good enough.

Apart from the extreme tessellation sections of heaven, the hd5870 is pretty close on it's heels (within 20-30%). Which can be mostly overcome by the PROVEN hd5870's OC'ing ability, not to mention the hd5970. I know that some will say 'you can't look at OC to determine how good i card is!' but i beg to differ, for us overclocking is almost standard. therefore any card MUST have a good overclock headroom, or enough of one to beat other cards in the same price range when overclocked. My hd5870 overclocks a nice round 20% on the core, giving me (approx.) 17-20% fps boost. If the gtx380 can only OC by 5%, I would not consider it a decent card to upgrade to, since the overall difference will be only be around 10-15%.

Of course, nvidia could make their hot and hungry chip very overclockable, i just can't see it at the moment.

Regardless, roll on proper reviews!

 

[mR Yellow]

I've been following this thread for a while. Yes, the GF100 does have great Tess performance. I will reserve judgement once the final card is launched and that will only be end March/Beginning April.

By the time it comes out we will have a few DX11 titles out to test.

 

[subhendu]

Again I found this 2nd part video from youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9tJ4HHUYA
lol........z

 

[yogurt_21]

Again I found this 2nd part video from youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9tJ4HHUYA
lol........z

lol so when's part 3 come out? that one was cliff hanger.


tesselation seems strong on the gf100 but we'll see how much that plays. There seems to be alot of gpgpu changes built into fermi.

 

[subhendu]

^^^fermi is very strong.I am also waiting to buy one,buyt no idea about price

 

[TheMailMan78]

Until we see a review on TPU this is all we really know about Fermi......

 

[DrPepper]

I've found a way to solve organ donor problems with graphics cards. What they should do is offer the graphics card before release only if you donate say your kidney or heart or cornea's. Stuff you don't need That said Fermi will probably worth my kidney.

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

well if i give 1 kidney and 1 cornea that leaves me with 1 kidney and 1 eye hell sign me up for Fermi SLI in that event

 

[DrPepper]

well if i give 1 kidney and 1 cornea that leaves me with 1 kidney and 1 eye hell sign me up for Fermi SLI in that event

Only downside is no 3d effects

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

bah who need 3d effects ill wait on that stuff i dont want 3d till i can enter a damn holodeck THEN 3d will be worth while to me but not until that happens