NVidia, What gives? Seriously?!?

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Hi,
Well can't say I care about your opinion either bud so guess we're even so what now I'm rubber and you're glue

So to recap.

You don't do tuber's ?

You don't care what they or i say or do.

You buy what you want.

And reviewers you don't like shouldn't get free GPUs and should just buy them.

Interesting!?? Oh and I'm biased .

I'll err leave you to it I haven't the foggiest what the actual ffff your point is?! At all or with the rubber glue shit, you replied to me first and good f#### night sir, sorry madam clearly.

 

[GamerGuy]

nvidia, The way it's meant to be reviewed!

 

[ThrashZone]

So to recap.
You don't do tuber's ?
You don't care what they or i say or do.
You buy what you want.
And reviewers you don't like shouldn't get free GPUs and should just buy them.
Interesting!?? Oh and I'm biased .
I'll err leave you to it I haven't the foggiest what the actual your point is?! At all or with the rubber glue, you replied to me first and good day sir

Hi,
You mad
I say this about tubers and you get mad
Missed your tube channel
Sorry can't quote violations

 

[Kapone33]

I think power is a relevant one wrt cost of ownership when there is a situation of competing cards in performance and price, where the gap in TDPs is substantial. With Vega 64 you could be looking at as much as 25-30% gaps and that is substantial, and worth factoring in.

You can also turn it around, the added cost pf that gap could buy you a higher tier GPU when a stack is properly spaced apart. That aint nothing.

We are talking about devices that accumulate at least 20% of their purchase cost in additional power bill expenses. So in a relative sense... saying this is nothing seems a bit like ignorance is bliss. It gets hidden in a power bill... Not something to make mountains of, but certsinly not a mole hill to completely ignore if all else is about equal.

You can tune a Vega 64 and tune it to pull just over 220 Watts even so if it costs (for me) 0.11 per KWH it is not a mitigating factor in the argument and Nvidia and Intel want it that way too as evidenced by the 3x8 Pin and 400 Watt power draw.....but this thread is about RT.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Great vid by Steve addressing this... highly recommend to go watch.

This has already been posted, but TY all the same.

 

[95Viper]

Stop the back and forth drama.

 

[Vayra86]

You can tune a Vega 64 and tune it to pull just over 220 Watts even so if it costs (for me) 0.11 per KWH it is not a mitigating factor in the argument and Nvidia and Intel want it that way too as evidenced by the 3x8 Pin and 400 Watt power draw.....but this thread is about RT.

You can tune a Pascal card for 80W less too with minimal perf impact. But you are correct about RT.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Hi,
You mad
I say this about tubers and you get mad
Missed your tube channel
Sorry can't quote violations

Let's quit with the insults and personal jabs.

Please stay on topic folks.

Stop the back and forth drama.

Ninja'd! LOL!

 

[phanbuey]

nvidia, The way it's meant to be reviewed!

I died on that line when Steve said it in the vid.... hilarious.

I bet it was the cyberpunk review- because they split it into two sections and rasterization was the main vid and DLSS and RT was the secondary one. Also the 6800 vs 3070 vid. Still a braindead move on nvidia... clearly the PR person that pushed for this didn't step through "Best Case, Worst Case" outcomes of that email.

 

[Valantar]

tech tuber drama, meh, who gives a flying fk

hardware unboxed has been hardcore shilling for amd for quite a while, their videos are so biased and their charts are so tiny it hurts my eyes watching it. got caught with their pants done and potentially have free stuff taken away and they cry on internet hoping for a pitchfork internet mob. Grow a pair of balls hardware unboxed. Nvidia wanna pull the plug then you should just man up and buy your own fking reviewing cards.

JFC I am disgusted by that channel

Hmm... Shilling for AMD by including DLSS-on results alongside native rendering results in reviews of the most recent AMD GPUs? Shilling for AMD by making a dedicated RTX 3080 RTRT video?

And regardless of Nvidia's poorly veiled BS about not sufficiently prioritizing stuff that makes Nvidia look good, do you actually think it's okay for manufacturers to directly police review content like that?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Seems to be the pot calling the kettle black. I don't really see most of these reviewer sites as impartial or particularly honest. They are quite susceptible to hype, and they make a living doing this.

I'd say RT gives more than say going from Xbox one to Xbox series X. Objectively looking at images I think proves that. Saying this is heresy these days, but the core issue is that graphics from a user standpoint haven't moved much in the past 8 years or so. Games require new graphics cards, but they don't look that much better.

For example, which side of this screenshot is best. One of these is XBox one, the other is Xbox Series X.

By comparison, here is RT on and off. To my eyes, it is more evident which is which, but still not earth shattering :

None of this is even close to the difference between say XBox 360 and XBox One, which is 2005 tech vs 2013 tech. That comparison is below. Anyone who isn't half blind can see which is which here.

We're truly in the age of diminishing returns and all these manufacturers are trying to tell everyone their updates are relevant :

 

[FinneousPJ]

Seems to be the pot calling the kettle black. I don't really see most of these reviewer sites as impartial or particularly honest. They are quite susceptible to hype, and they make a living doing this.

I'd say RT gives more than say going from Xbox one to Xbox series X. Objectively looking at images I think proves that. Saying this is heresy these days, but the core issue is that graphics from a user standpoint haven't moved much in the past 8 years or so. Games require new graphics cards, but they don't look that much better.

For example, which side of this screenshot is best. One of these is XBox one, the other is Xbox Series X.

View attachment 179581

By comparison, here is RT on and off. To my eyes, it is more evident which is which, but still not earth shattering :

View attachment 179583

None of this is even close to the difference between say XBox 360 and XBox One, which is 2005 tech vs 2013 tech. That comparison is below. Anyone who isn't half blind can see which is which here.

We're truly in the age of diminishing returns and all these manufacturers are trying to tell everyone their updates are relevant :

View attachment 179587

That's pretty funny given Xbox Series X introduced ray tracing... So you're saying ray trace has more effect than ray tracing?

 

[Valantar]

Hi,
Pretty much like I said tubers can buy gpu's/.... and review those items just like normal people can and do on every release
I haven't jumped on the rtx series at all so I could care a less for the features nvidia is insisting on tubers to show case

But then again I've never watched a tuber and bought a product a tuber ever suggested either
I buy what I want too.

Hi! Please let us know how tech reviewers can buy GPUs and then travel back in time so that they have a review ready day 1 like all the rest of the media outlets. You clearly know how this can be done, so please share! It really shouldn't need to be said, but in the tech press, there are extremely few outlets with a sufficient following to stay afloat without the traffic boosts from day 1 reviews of new high-end products. (And the traffic graphs for those reviews are typically massive spikes on day 1, with precipitous drops after that, meaning if you're late to the party, you don't get anything.)

Seems to be the pot calling the kettle black. I don't really see most of these reviewer sites as impartial or particularly honest. They are quite susceptible to hype, and they make a living doing this.

I'd say RT gives more than say going from Xbox one to Xbox series X. Objectively looking at images I think proves that. Saying this is heresy these days, but the core issue is that graphics from a user standpoint haven't moved much in the past 8 years or so. Games require new graphics cards, but they don't look that much better.

For example, which side of this screenshot is best. One of these is XBox one, the other is Xbox Series X.

View attachment 179581

By comparison, here is RT on and off. To my eyes, it is more evident which is which, but still not earth shattering :

View attachment 179583

None of this is even close to the difference between say XBox 360 and XBox One, which is 2005 tech vs 2013 tech. That comparison is below. Anyone who isn't half blind can see which is which here.

We're truly in the age of diminishing returns and all these manufacturers are trying to tell everyone their updates are relevant :

View attachment 179587

I don't know what size of monitor you're looking at, but even in the tiny side-by-side view in the forum thread I have zero issue picking out that the right top image is dramatically sharper than its comparison. And besides, when speaking of consoles, you can't discount resolution. While your bottom example is clearly much more obvious, it's no secret that base XBone/PS4 games these days are typically blurry AF and chug along. Cyberpunk might be an extreme example, but 720p 15fps on the PS4, with noticeably lower detail levels too? Yeah, that's not really playable even by console standards. As tech progresses and game development matures the fidelity gains will grow smaller over time (I mean, think of the difference from 1991 to 2001 vs. 2010 to 2020 ...), but that's hardly surprising. We also need to take into account growing TV/monitor sizes and higher standards for fluidity, which also affects things - in the 90s, a lot of console games consistently ran at ~15fps after all. 30fps has been the console standard for a couple of generations, but they are now moving to 60fps. Frame rate isn't visible in screenshots, but has a huge impact on the game experience. So of course things are changing, just a bit less, and in different ways than previously. Go figure.

That's pretty funny given Xbox Series X introduced ray tracing... So you're saying ray trace has more effect than ray tracing?

I would guess that specific console game lacks RT?

 

[FinneousPJ]

Hi! Please let us know how tech reviewers can buy GPUs and then travel back in time so that they have a review ready day 1 like all the rest of the media outlets. You clearly know how this can be done, so please share! It really shouldn't need to be said, but in the tech press, there are extremely few outlets with a sufficient following to stay afloat without the traffic boosts from day 1 reviews of new high-end products. (And the traffic graphs for those reviews are typically massive spikes on day 1, with precipitous drops after that, meaning if you're late to the party, you don't get anything.)

I don't know what size of monitor you're looking at, but even in the tiny side-by-side view in the forum thread I have zero issue picking out that the right top image is dramatically sharper than its comparison. And besides, when speaking of consoles, you can't discount resolution. While your bottom example is clearly much more obvious, it's no secret that base XBone/PS4 games these days are typically blurry AF and chug along. Cyberpunk might be an extreme example, but 720p 15fps on the PS4, with noticeably lower detail levels too? Yeah, that's not really playable even by console standards. As tech progresses and game development matures the fidelity gains will grow smaller over time (I mean, think of the difference from 1991 to 2001 vs. 2010 to 2020 ...), but that's hardly surprising. We also need to take into account growing TV/monitor sizes and higher standards for fluidity, which also affects things - in the 90s, a lot of console games consistently ran at ~15fps after all. 30fps has been the console standard for a couple of generations, but they are now moving to 60fps. Frame rate isn't visible in screenshots, but has a huge impact on the game experience. So of course things are changing, just a bit less, and in different ways than previously. Go figure.


I would guess that specific console game lacks RT?

Well yeah but he said "I'd say RT gives more than say going from Xbox one to Xbox series X"; where one of the main differences between XB1 and XSX is ray tracing. So I am drawing attention to that by means of humour, so he may clarify his statement.

 

[RandallFlagg]

That's pretty funny given Xbox Series X introduced ray tracing... So you're saying ray trace has more effect than ray tracing?

Ray tracing is not being used on the vast majority of titles.

What I'm saying is that none of this new crap makes a difference in actual visuals. How about you tell me which of those 2 images are Xbox one and which is Xbox Series X.

But here's a taker :

I don't know what size of monitor you're looking at, but even in the tiny side-by-side view in the forum thread I have zero issue picking out that the right top image is dramatically sharper than its comparison.

And the top right is the Xbox One. The Xbox X is fuzzier due to motion blur.

This is the graphical equivalent of the SSD SATA vs PCIe 3 M.2 vs PCie4 M.2 comparison I think Linus did, where even the 'expert reviewers' could not tell the difference.

The one big advantage of Series X is the SSD speed and SSD interface. Notice this is the focus of most reviews. That's because that's is thus far the main advantage.

Well yeah but he said "I'd say RT gives more than say going from Xbox one to Xbox series X"; where one of the main differences between XB1 and XSX is ray tracing. So I am drawing attention to that by means of humour, so he may clarify his statement.

So show a title that is using RT on XBox Series X.

 

[FinneousPJ]

Ray tracing is not being used on the vast majority of titles.

What I'm saying is that none of this new crap makes a difference in actual visuals. How about you tell me which of those 2 images are Xbox one and which is Xbox Series X.

But here's a taker :



And the top right is the Xbox One. The Xbox X is fuzzier due to motion blur.

This is the graphical equivalent of the SSD SATA vs PCIe 3 M.2 vs PCie4 M.2 comparison I think Linus did, where even the 'expert reviewers' could not tell the difference.

The one big advantage of Series X is the SSD speed and SSD interface. Notice this is the focus of most reviews. That's because that's is thus far the main advantage.

So you're saying XB1 and XSX are indistinguishable whether or not RT is enabled? Or maybe just failed to clarify? That defeats your earlier point then...

And here BTW - https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-series-x-series-s-ray-tracing

The tool is called DuckDuckGo, it's pretty handy.

 

[RandallFlagg]

So you're saying XB1 and XSX are indistinguishable whether or not RT is enabled? Or maybe just failed to clarify? That defeats your earlier point then...

And here BTW - https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-series-x-series-s-ray-tracing

The tool is called DuckDuckGo, it's pretty handy.

I figured the brainless masses would riot, hence the statement about heresy. You fit the mold. You get snippy, you get snippy back. To anyone who isn't brainwashed, just go look at the comparison videos.

The tool is called a brain, the skill critical thinking. It's pretty handy.,

 

[FinneousPJ]

I figured the brainless masses would riot, hence the statement about heresy. You fit the mold. You get snippy, you get snippy back. To anyone who isn't brainwashed, just go look at the comparison videos.

The tool is called a brain, the skill critical thinking. It's pretty handy.,

You still didn't clarify whether you think XB1 and XSX are the same with or without RT.

 

[Kursah]

Stop the back and forth drama.

To those who failed to read this prior, it still stands. Anyone that persists after Viper's warning may be subject to warnings and reply bans.

 

[RandallFlagg]

You still didn't clarify whether you think XB1 and XSX are the same with or without RT.

The image I posted on the Xbox front is of a non RT game. In point of fact the only person who tried to guess which was which on the XBox image guessed wrong. The Xbox One actually looked better, too perfect maybe.

Most people will be able to tell which of the two images I posted was RT and not. But that difference too is minimal.

This all pales in comparison to the posted Xbox 360 vs Xbox one image.

So fanboyisms aside, my point is that there's not much to crow about from any of them. Compared to previous generations of consoles and GPUs, this is all pretty blase. Games simply aren't giving big returns on visual quality for big $$ investment into the hardware that we used to have.

 

[Vya Domus]

If Nvidia had just said they didn't have enough samples to send out, that would have been one thing.

Which might as well have been a lie just as AMD could have lied about the R9 Nano. But that's the thing, they didn't try to lie, they just outright said you're not getting any products until you say what we want you to say.

That leaves two possibilities, the guy who wrote the email was a moron, which I doubt. Or, they obviously knew it was going to go public and they just wanted to make sure other reviewers get the memo. I mean, one way to find out if that really was the case is to see whether or not the guy gets fired or replaced with someone else. If he doesn't ... that clarifies everything.

 

[Valantar]

And the top right is the Xbox One. The Xbox X is fuzzier due to motion blur.

This is the graphical equivalent of the SSD SATA vs PCIe 3 M.2 vs PCie4 M.2 comparison I think Linus did, where even the 'expert reviewers' could not tell the difference.

The one big advantage of Series X is the SSD speed and SSD interface. Notice this is the focus of most reviews. That's because that's is thus far the main advantage.

So you're using in-motion screenshots for image quality comparisons? That's a terrible idea! >90% of monitors/TVs that game is played on are likely to introduce more blur than that motion blur filter. As for the SSD comparison ... nah. Sorry. Not comparable. Seriously, show me a full screen static screenshot comparison of any game across the two console generations where the new generation doesn't either deliver better quality or better framerates (if not both). Picking and choosing one where one system has motion blur added and one doesn't ... doesn't prove that one looks better than the other, just that one has a filter added and the other doesn't. Go figure.

But maybe it's about time this got back on topic? I don't see how this relates to Nvidia's shady marketing tactics ...

 

[Regeneration]

If I give you a supercar to review, and you drive it like a grandma, don't expect to get more cars in the future.

 

[Deleted member 24505]

just seems like a whole lot of dummys out of prams to me.....

 

[Valantar]

If I give you a supercar to review, and you drive it like a grandma, don't expect to get more cars in the future.

What on earth are you on about? Not only is that statement completely nonsensical in this content; If you send out a product for review to the press, you have zero say over that review. Reviewers are not beholden to product makers, nor could they be, as that would make their reviews fundamentally untrustworthy, and thus worthless.