oh, goody.. a C++ programming book

[Ketxxx]

Downloading M$ Visual C++ Express now, decided to get the whole package in case I need all of it so that's 372MB, probably about half and hour or so and then I'll get going!

link for that? i need all the coding programs i can get my hands on

 

[Jimmy 2004]

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/

 

[Alec§taar]

dont be a weeny jimmy learn lots so u can show driver programmers how a driver should really be made thats one reason why im doing programming, and the other is so i can modify game engines in a lot more detail

There's reasons for it man... usually, venture-capital based ones. Folks that plunge monies into a company (often on loan no less & LARGE sums) demand turn-around times that are pretty incredible... not just in drivers work, either.

This is where GOOD systems/business analysts & mgt. help hugely, by NOT setting "unreal" expectations... how to do that? Well, having done the job, yourself, hands on, for years... then, managing those later who do it as your subordinates.

I can think of NO other more logical approach - Toyota pursues this & has followed it to the letter... internal in-house grown mgt. FROM THE RANKS... it works, there is NO arguing w/ their success.

You often are TOLD to issue code w/ known issues... yes, believe-it-or-not, because patches can always later be issued.

This is ALL to make said deadlines!

See, because IF you don't make deadline contracted in THIS field & yes, others? You're subject to penalties on payment & in violation of contracted terms...

This is the "truly evil" side (money, the root of YOU-KNOW-WHAT, but also your pay & the company's livelyhood too)...

Business' are primarily out there to make a profit, above all else, not build better cards (though, engineering types might disagree, those not 'disillusioned', or lol, rather having had their eyes opened up to realities of this business & yes, others).

Mostly, it's "intermittent" bugs, ones that don't ALWAYS appear & on all types of equipment...

New features often intro. the bugs too, it's dangerous to some extent, in extending softwares of any kind, & especially so (imo, limited here though, in DDK/drivers work).

Using only "proven technology" (another 'Toyoda tenet') has its downsides too, you fall behind your competitors IF you don't use R&D & take SOME risks in new features & such too.

Ms helps A LOT, providing their WHQL testings (takes time & tons of diff. equipment mixes, which is WHY I think it's a miracle Win32 works as well as it does & on MORE peripheral hardware than anything else), & the DDK (device driver kit) templates for base/generic functions of drivers & also debuggers improving PLUS the OS itself doing so (w/ debug symbols inserts builds of the OS, etc.) & far more.

I am NOT the "best guy" to make statements here though, I do my work @ the user-level in Win32 environs... but, W1zz?

He can probably DEFINITELY shed some more light here than I can... he does do Video driver filtering related work, based on what I see in his wares (good stuff, it did impress me when I was an "ATI Man" @ least).

I can tell you 1 thing though Ket... you'd probably be GREAT @ it, & even possibly @ some point, make a 'breakthru' type accomplishment, because of your interest & background already... you pursue this @ THIS LEVEL?

The sky IS the limit for you...

APK

P.S.=> It's NOT that hard spotting a bug, but it is tougher to point out WHERE it is the coder in question went "wrong" or missed errtraps, or is just a coder ONLY (not understanding the OS' mechanics for instance)...

E.G. -> I've caught some "famous" guys in this field on THAT note, & @ levels (like driver related RPL0/Ring 0 level work, or levels of OS operations) & corrected them, CORRECTLY no less, just on guesswork... One guy in particular you'd NEVER think would err in that manner, because he is well-known & respected, & also a PhD (doctorate)... also, @ points, helping folks like the FireFox team fix bugs, & other shareware/freeware guys too.

Don't think it hasn't happened to me too - it has, but mostly users helped me most here.

How?

Because of knowing this lunacy as "inside-out" as I humanly could @ this point @ least (so much more to learn though, but enough's enough, time to move on to my original goal, being a better more capable/knowledgeable mgr. in THIS field)... how to get there?

LEARN TO CODE, LEARN YOUR OS INSIDE-OUT, LEARN ABOUT NETWORKING... as much of all as you can... takes time... apk

 

[Ketxxx]

thats true for me, im not disillusioned and know far too well how hardware should act, interact, and respond. which is why im always so critical of bad coding. its one thing to release buggy code, its another to release code thats so bad its not even R&D Alpha fit.

 

[melkhior]

Holy shit, I can't undertand *almost* Alec§taar says

Well, after the long posts of Alec§taar I have nothing more to add. I'm agree with almost he say.

PS: Alec§taar, please, think in the people who are "short-minded" and write with a more comprensive language xD (of course I only was just kidding... ).

 

[Alec§taar]

Holy shit, I can't undertand *almost* Alec§taar says

Actually, I felt you had a good handle on this stuff... I just didn't agree w/ the part about learning C first, & C++ afterwards... mainly, because it "threw ME for a loop" going from C, then directly into C++... back in the DOS days!

Well, after the long posts of Alec§taar I have nothing more to add. I'm agree with almost he say.

Fair enough - we're diff. folks, & thus we'll see this field & languages, differently! Makes total sense...

PS: Alec§taar, please, think in the people who are "short-minded" and write with a more comprensive language xD (of course I only was just kidding... ).

I have not even HEARD of that one, to be quite honest...

I am VERY "old-school" here, & I don't even think "object-oriented" programming is needed for smaller (relative term here) programs... especially console mode stuff, & I only really use prebuilt constructs/objects the compiler provides on MOST stuff I do, @ least in shareware/freeware in the past.

Larger projects though? Absolutely, I will go to object orientation & use of classes, but it took me getting into .NET to really appreciate it & why/when to use it. Good for code reuse is the TYPICAL thing you hear as to the "WHY" of using it, but imo? MOST times I have used classes in other languages (VB4-VB6 being my first & most exposed to this on larger MIS/IS/IT projects) is that the classes OFTEN become "too specific" to the project @ hand...

Sure, it may be I am relatively "weaker" here still using classes, but it is what I have found.

See, I come outta the 'procedural programming' line of thought, & "drop-down" before it (this is actually one I'll TRY to avoid though, on the latter, & only would use it if the program is MASSIVELY tiny & has a single 'main-body' function, only)...

To each his own on style, & when/what/why/how to use what style of coding, AND language, and when (what circumstances)...

APK

 

[Ketxxx]

i might not be remembering correctly but isnt C++ an extension of C anyway and C++ actually keeps most of what C does? so it seems kinda pointless learning C, may as well jump on to C++

 

[melkhior]

i might not be remembering correctly but isnt C++ an extension of C anyway and C++ actually keeps most of what C does? so it seems kinda pointless learning C, may as well jump on to C++

No, C++ is the evolution of C. Is not exactly the same. Like Alec§taar said there some codes that doesn't work fine with C++ compilers. If you want to read a short article about that go to wikipedia and look for it (in 10 minutes or less you will read it).

Alec§taar, when I said short minded I was refering to me cause for people who doesn't speak english as native language it's a bit difficult to understand you xD.

Anyway, when I said that I prefer to learn first C and then C++ is because C is the base for most of the modern languages (such PHP, Java, C++, C# or D) are totally influenced by C. And if you know C you will have facilities to understand better that languages.

 

[Oliver_FF]

I agree, M$ Visual C++ is a great way to start. The thing it has that most of the other C++ compilers don't have is awesome debugging facilities. (amongst a horrific amount of extra stuff that I don't have a clue as to their purpose)...

I tend to use Dev-C++ for my programming as it's a very neat interface and the cool expandable bar at the bottom to keep things tidy, but when it comes to debugging... Lets just say sometimes issues don't become apparent and sometimes the debugger will jump around loads leaving me to think "Hmm??". This is probably down to the optimizations that get made to your code, but if your going to be writing buggy code and want to be informed of your mistakes, stick with Visual Studio. It'll save you a LOT of time and hassle

 

[Jimmy 2004]

So what type of things have people here done with C++. I obviously only just past the "Hello World!" stage, but from the sound of it people like Alec have a lot more experience. At the moment I can't do anything with it but I was wondering what other people have gotten out of it.

 

[melkhior]

I've done a program about maths (draw every kind of function and two types of fractals), the typical "maze" game (with pseudorandom possibilities), and some more that I can't remember.

At the moment I'm learning about .NET Framework (C# and VB.net). Both languages have lot of interesting possibilities.

 

[Ketxxx]

No, C++ is the evolution of C. Is not exactly the same. Like Alec§taar said there some codes that doesn't work fine with C++ compilers. If you want to read a short article about that go to wikipedia and look for it (in 10 minutes or less you will read it).

Alec§taar, when I said short minded I was refering to me cause for people who doesn't speak english as native language it's a bit difficult to understand you xD.

Anyway, when I said that I prefer to learn first C and then C++ is because C is the base for most of the modern languages (such PHP, Java, C++, C# or D) are totally influenced by C. And if you know C you will have facilities to understand better that languages.

Thats why I said C++ keeps most of C I know there are some things C++ cant really do but C can, but what is left out of C++ that only C can do, is that worth learning? did i make any sence at all there?

 

[Oliver_FF]

I've done a fractal generator before, they're awesome

Amongst others, i've also done loads and loads of programs on data encryption and decryption, i've just added in a GUI to my latest algorithm and a few other cool bits.

A good place to start considering how to tackle writing programs is with simple stuff to solve quadratic equations, simultaneous equations, etc. Once you've covered the real basics, think of something cool to make and start attempting it. When you get stuck, use google (or, beg for help) and keep trying.

 

[Ketxxx]

bump, as more than a few folk seem to need the thread for infozhelp

 

[Oliver_FF]

Just incase people were wondering about using the windows API's and compatibility with Vista, i've just got my hands of the RTM build of Vista, and my programs that use the Win32 API's still function perfectly without the need to be recompiled or anything. Screenshots of one of my programs running in both WinXP and WinVista (the spangled-up one is Vista )