• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

PSU Guide

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
2,259 (0.38/day)
System Name Budget AMD System
Processor Threadripper 1900X @ 4.1Ghz (100x41 @ 1.3250V)
Motherboard Gigabyte X399 Aorus Gaming 7
Cooling EKWB X399 Monoblock
Memory 4x8GB GSkill TridentZ RGB 14-14-14-32 CR1 @ 3266
Video Card(s) XFX Radeon RX Vega₆⁴ Liquid @ 1,800Mhz Core, 1025Mhz HBM2
Storage 1x ADATA SX8200 NVMe, 1x Segate 2.5" FireCuda 2TB SATA, 1x 500GB HGST SATA
Display(s) Vizio 22" 1080p 60hz TV (Samsung Panel)
Case Corsair 570X
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Seasonic X Series 850W KM3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64

p_o_s_pc

F@H&WCG addict
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
13,006 (2.01/day)
Location
Newark ohio
System Name el'lappy|Cruncher | Cruncher 2
Processor intel C2D T6400 | i7 3770k @4.2ghz | AII X2 220 @3.4ghz
Motherboard some Acer | Asus P8Z77-V Pro |Gigabyter GA-M61p-S3
Cooling dual 80mm cooling fan | WC'ing ) |cheapo
Memory 2x2gb ddr3 | 2x2gb Ripjaws 1600 |4x512mb D9s
Video Card(s) onboard | 60 1GB(hd7770 ) |8800GTS
Storage Momuntus xt 320gb |Kingston Hyper X 120gb SATA III|500gb WD
Display(s) 17in | 42" 1080P HD 3D TV
Case lappy case | CM HAF XB |none yet
Audio Device(s) onboard | onboard | onboard
Power Supply Dell brick w/ acer end end | Antec EW 650w |Antec SP 350w(upg.soon)
Software Windows 7 Ult. 64bit---->------->
FSP = Bad...

Found 3 bad caps in my Basiq tonight.

All 3 are from CapXon.

Not all FSP are bad. Antec tells them what they want in the PSU so they make it to how they want. Its been known that Basiq aren't good. The OCZ 700w GXS that i have is made by FSP and i yet to have a problem with it(knock on wood) and its powering the rig in my specs.
 

JrRacinFan

Served 5k and counting ...
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
20,124 (3.09/day)
Location
Youngstown, OH
System Name Snow White
Processor Ryzen 7900x3d
Motherboard AsRock B650E Steel Legend
Cooling Custom Water 1x420
Memory 32GB T-Force Deltas
Video Card(s) PowerColor 7900 XTX Liquid Devil
Storage 20+ TB
Display(s) Sammy 49" 5k Ultrawide
Case Tt CTE 600 Snow Edition
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply EVGA 1200W P2
Mouse Corsair M65 RGB Elite White
Keyboard Corsair K65 Mini
Software Windows 10
Benchmark Scores Avermedia Live HD2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817176005

I thought Sventeam was good? I mean seriously... lol

Seventeam is good. Nice deal btw!

Not all FSP are bad. Antec tells them what they want in the PSU so they make it to how they want. Its been known that Basiq aren't good. The OCZ 700w GXS that i have is made by FSP and i yet to have a problem with it(knock on wood) and its powering the rig in my specs.

I stand by you with that, pos. While FSP is a great OEM, they can only build what they are told to build when given certain components.
 

vipz

New Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
15 (0.00/day)
if due to electrical surge or any disturbance in line a psu blows then what?
every good psu has scp,ovp,olp etc.. but its for anything happen after psu(short circuit in motherboard,etc..)
in my neighborhood a person connect his pc directly to mains without ups and due to irregularities in mains his psu blows and his HDD,motherboard got destroyed.then why one should spend premium for psu's.Does any psu has protection for such events.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.64/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
if due to electrical surge or any disturbance in line a psu blows then what?
every good psu has scp,ovp,olp etc.. but its for anything happen after psu(short circuit in motherboard,etc..)
in my neighborhood a person connect his pc directly to mains without ups and due to irregularities in mains his psu blows and his HDD,motherboard got destroyed.then why one should spend premium for psu's.Does any psu has protection for such events.

For surges? Yes, it's called a fuse. Does the same thing a surge protector does. Have to open the unit to get to it, but it has one.

For brown outs and fluctuations? If your mains fluctuate enough to blow a psu, you should automatically have your sensitive electronics on a ups or power conditioner. That's the power company's and your friend's fault, not the psu's. Quite frankly, anyone willing to plug a computer directly into the mains while knowing they have fluctuating power, deserves to lose their stuff.
 

vipz

New Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
15 (0.00/day)
For surges? Yes, it's called a fuse. Does the same thing a surge protector does. Have to open the unit to get to it, but it has one.

For brown outs and fluctuations? If your mains fluctuate enough to blow a psu, you should automatically have your sensitive electronics on a ups or power conditioner. That's the power company's and your friend's fault, not the psu's. Quite frankly, anyone willing to plug a computer directly into the mains while knowing they have fluctuating power, deserves to lose their stuff.

i know very well about surge protectors and fuse.u didn't get my point i want to say that a good psu must have protection for line disturbances.

and the power supply that blows has inbuilt fuse but it didn't work.

Quite frankly, anyone willing to plug a computer directly into the mains while knowing they have fluctuating power, deserves to lose their stuff.

who can predict that there will be a fluctuation in mains.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.64/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
i know very well about surge protectors and fuse.u didn't get my point i want to say that a good psu must have protection for line disturbances.

and the power supply that blows has inbuilt fuse but it didn't work.



who can predict that there will be a fluctuation in mains.

A simple, and cheap surge protector protects you from spikes in voltage. If you do not have your computer plugged into a good surge protector, it's your fault.

For low voltage, a power conditioner or UPS can help. Tho, I rarely see damage from low voltage.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
180 (0.03/day)
A simple, and cheap surge protector protects you from spikes in voltage. If you do not have your computer plugged into a good surge protector, it's your fault.

For low voltage, a power conditioner or UPS can help. Tho, I rarely see damage from low voltage.
Why no damage from low voltage? Because international design standards even 40 years ago - long before PC exists - demanded no damage from any low voltage. In fact, the low voltage region on one chart is quite blunt about it - in all capital letters: "NO DAMAGE REGION".

But many only learn about electricity from myths. Or see damage, then use wild speculation to ‘know’ why damage exists. Some myths to confront:

Shorting a power supply causes damage. Nonsense. Intel even defines how large the shorting wire must be to test that supply. You must short all outputs from any powered on supply and no damage results. A standard long before PC existed.

No power supply must damage any motherboard or other components. More standards that existed long before Intel also demanded same.

Any protection that might work on a power supply's power cord already exists inside the supply. Routine even 40 years ago (again international design standards) was 120 volt electronics to withstand up to 600 volts without damage. Today, ATX specs put that number in excess of 1000 volts. Worse, a protector adjacent to electronics even gives surges more destructive paths. May even compromise protection inside a computer.

Effective surge protection in any facility that can never suffer damage is as close to earth ground as possible. And (in the case of telco switching centers) up to 50 meters separated from electronics. So that protection inside any appliance is not overwhelmed, the rare and destructive surge must be earthed before it can enter the building. And best performed distant from electronics. Separation between a protector and electronics increases protection.

Surges occur daily only when junk science replaces common knowledge. How often is a dimmer switch destroyed every day? Where is a protector that protects it? Even dimmer switches are so robust as to make ‘dirty’ electricity irrelevant. Computers are required to be even more robust.

How robust? Some of the dirtiest electricity comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Of course, the many who know without learning numbers would believe popular myths. The numbers from this typical 120 volt UPS in battery backup mode. Its output voltage is two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. This voltage can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. And since electronics are so robust, this same UPS power is ideal for electronics.

Power that must never harm electronics can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors - devices that are not as robust. Numbers that popular myth forgets to include. Too many above posts are nothing more than wild speculation when the author forgot to first learn basic electric principles. And never once posted numbers.

More numbers. The specifications on all electronics define normal voltage so low that an incandescent bulb at 50% intensity is perfectly ideal voltage to any electronics. That same low voltage may be harmful to the refrigerator, furnace, or dishwasher. One need only learn simple electrical concepts and the numbers to see why that is so.

Why is voltage held so stable to not dim bulbs to 50% intensity? Because voltage variations can cause air conditioner and fan motor damage. Why do so many worry about voltage variations to a computer? Because they believed what they were told to believe rather than first learn any numbers. That and knowledge only from observation are called junk science reasoning.

Why are those myths so widely believed? Because ineffective and obscene profit products are sold to cure those myths. For example, what is a power strip protector? A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts selling for $25 or $150. With profit margins that high, even I would be posting those lies.

How much power does a computer consume? Typically 200 watts. Therefore install 350 watt supplies. However, due to what they are measuring, some 350 watt supplies are also called 500 watts. No, they are not lying. They are just measuring something different.

To hype better 'quality', another myth is what Tim Allen so routinely mocked, "More Power!". More wattage does not mean a better supply. In fact to cut costs, some supplies sell more power while forgetting to include other essential functions. If the computer boots, the naive will not notice the missing functions. Sell a 1000 watt supply without those functions for less than $60 means a higher profit margin compared to a 400 watt supply with all those functions for more than $60. Those who know without first learning numbers and what those basic functions are will, instead, hype the 1000 watt supply. And then suffer failures latter due to those missing functions.

I believe that is enough challenged urban myths for one day.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
43,615 (6.46/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF x670e-Plus Wifi
Cooling EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory 32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 4090
Storage WD/Samsung m.2's
Display(s) LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s) Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Amp, Adam Audio T5V's, Hifiman Sundara's.
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard Epomaker 84 key
Software Windows 11 Pro
Why no damage from low voltage? Because international design standards even 40 years ago - long before PC exists - demanded no damage from any low voltage. In fact, the low voltage region on one chart is quite blunt about it - in all capital letters: "NO DAMAGE REGION".

But many only learn about electricity from myths. Or see damage, then use wild speculation to ‘know’ why damage exists. Some myths to confront:

Shorting a power supply causes damage. Nonsense. Intel even defines how large the shorting wire must be to test that supply. You must short all outputs from any powered on supply and no damage results. A standard long before PC existed.

No power supply must damage any motherboard or other components. More standards that existed long before Intel also demanded same.

Any protection that might work on a power supply's power cord already exists inside the supply. Routine even 40 years ago (again international design standards) was 120 volt electronics to withstand up to 600 volts without damage. Today, ATX specs put that number in excess of 1000 volts. Worse, a protector adjacent to electronics even gives surges more destructive paths. May even compromise protection inside a computer.

Effective surge protection in any facility that can never suffer damage is as close to earth ground as possible. And (in the case of telco switching centers) up to 50 meters separated from electronics. So that protection inside any appliance is not overwhelmed, the rare and destructive surge must be earthed before it can enter the building. And best performed distant from electronics. Separation between a protector and electronics increases protection.

Surges occur daily only when junk science replaces common knowledge. How often is a dimmer switch destroyed every day? Where is a protector that protects it? Even dimmer switches are so robust as to make ‘dirty’ electricity irrelevant. Computers are required to be even more robust.

How robust? Some of the dirtiest electricity comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Of course, the many who know without learning numbers would believe popular myths. The numbers from this typical 120 volt UPS in battery backup mode. Its output voltage is two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. This voltage can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. And since electronics are so robust, this same UPS power is ideal for electronics.

Power that must never harm electronics can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors - devices that are not as robust. Numbers that popular myth forgets to include. Too many above posts are nothing more than wild speculation when the author forgot to first learn basic electric principles. And never once posted numbers.

More numbers. The specifications on all electronics define normal voltage so low that an incandescent bulb at 50% intensity is perfectly ideal voltage to any electronics. That same low voltage may be harmful to the refrigerator, furnace, or dishwasher. One need only learn simple electrical concepts and the numbers to see why that is so.

Why is voltage held so stable to not dim bulbs to 50% intensity? Because voltage variations can cause air conditioner and fan motor damage. Why do so many worry about voltage variations to a computer? Because they believed what they were told to believe rather than first learn any numbers. That and knowledge only from observation are called junk science reasoning.

Why are those myths so widely believed? Because ineffective and obscene profit products are sold to cure those myths. For example, what is a power strip protector? A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts selling for $25 or $150. With profit margins that high, even I would be posting those lies.

How much power does a computer consume? Typically 200 watts. Therefore install 350 watt supplies. However, due to what they are measuring, some 350 watt supplies are also called 500 watts. No, they are not lying. They are just measuring something different.

To hype better 'quality', another myth is what Tim Allen so routinely mocked, "More Power!". More wattage does not mean a better supply. In fact to cut costs, some supplies sell more power while forgetting to include other essential functions. If the computer boots, the naive will not notice the missing functions. Sell a 1000 watt supply without those functions for less than $60 means a higher profit margin compared to a 400 watt supply with all those functions for more than $60. Those who know without first learning numbers and what those basic functions are will, instead, hype the 1000 watt supply. And then suffer failures latter due to those missing functions.

I believe that is enough challenged urban myths for one day.

No mention of amperage?
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
180 (0.03/day)
No mention of amperage?
What amperage from where? Output amperage? AC amperage? Amperage to safety ground? Transient amps? Amperage from a current source? Amperage from a voltage source? Foldback current limiting? Of which electrical function are you asking?
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
43,615 (6.46/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF x670e-Plus Wifi
Cooling EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory 32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 4090
Storage WD/Samsung m.2's
Display(s) LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s) Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Amp, Adam Audio T5V's, Hifiman Sundara's.
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard Epomaker 84 key
Software Windows 11 Pro
Generally speaking the amperage that is supplied for a video card and the amperage requirements of video cards in relation to the amount of wattage needed. Obviously I don't have my electricians vocabulary handbook next to me. Is it possible for a PSU to supply enough watts but not enough amperage where it's needed?
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
180 (0.03/day)
Generally speaking the amperage that is supplied for a video card and the amperage requirements of video cards in relation to the amount of wattage needed.
High school physics. Power equals voltage time current. Voltage is fixed. Therefore a power supply's job (among so many) is to provide (adjust) current for the required power. Provide whatever the load demands. That load is a video card and everything else. I don't understand what is causing the confusion.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
43,615 (6.46/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF x670e-Plus Wifi
Cooling EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory 32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 4090
Storage WD/Samsung m.2's
Display(s) LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s) Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Amp, Adam Audio T5V's, Hifiman Sundara's.
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard Epomaker 84 key
Software Windows 11 Pro
Thanks for the information. I wasn't questioning your information, just asking for a bit more. To be honest, I know very little about this kind of stuff. :toast:
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
180 (0.03/day)
Thanks for the information. I wasn't questioning your information, just asking for a bit more. To be honest, I know very little about this kind of stuff.
A power supply is a constant voltage source. It will output as little or as much current necessary to maintain that constant voltage.

Indicator of a defective supply occurs when it does not maintain that voltage during maximum load - when all peripherals are being multitasked to simultaneously. This can be due to a power supply that is undersized or other failures - often long before those failures cause computer problems.

Typically, a power supply will still boot a computer even when not performing properly. But measuring each voltage when the load is demanding maximum current (when all peripherals are being multitasked) can identify a defective supply long (ie months) before that supply causes computer crashes.

A properly working supply will maintain voltages constant (ie measured within three significant digits) as the load demands more and less power.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.64/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
Why no damage from low voltage? Because international design standards even 40 years ago - long before PC exists - demanded no damage from any low voltage. In fact, the low voltage region on one chart is quite blunt about it - in all capital letters: "NO DAMAGE REGION".

But many only learn about electricity from myths. Or see damage, then use wild speculation to ‘know’ why damage exists. Some myths to confront:

Shorting a power supply causes damage. Nonsense. Intel even defines how large the shorting wire must be to test that supply. You must short all outputs from any powered on supply and no damage results. A standard long before PC existed.
Who said anything about that? I'm pretty sure most of us know a shorted psu just shuts off.

No power supply must damage any motherboard or other components. More standards that existed long before Intel also demanded same.
Just because specs say they must not, does not mean that it is true in practice. It's been shown that a defective psu can take the rest of the computer with it. Safeguards mean nothing if the safeguards fail with the rest of the psu.

Any protection that might work on a power supply's power cord already exists inside the supply. Routine even 40 years ago (again international design standards) was 120 volt electronics to withstand up to 600 volts without damage. Today, ATX specs put that number in excess of 1000 volts. Worse, a protector adjacent to electronics even gives surges more destructive paths. May even compromise protection inside a computer.
What about excessive amperage?

Effective surge protection in any facility that can never suffer damage is as close to earth ground as possible. And (in the case of telco switching centers) up to 50 meters separated from electronics. So that protection inside any appliance is not overwhelmed, the rare and destructive surge must be earthed before it can enter the building. And best performed distant from electronics. Separation between a protector and electronics increases protection.
Power surges make it past all the safeguards prior to the wall socket on numerous occasions. Also, the inbuilt surge protection in power supplies may not always work. Nothing works 100% of the time. And if the built in surge protection in the PSU is a fuse, you still go without a computer if it blows, as opening the unit and replacing the fuse yourself will void your warranty. A surge protector is a smart investment. It's just another line of defense. There is nothing wrong with additional safeguards.

Surges occur daily only when junk science replaces common knowledge. How often is a dimmer switch destroyed every day? Where is a protector that protects it? Even dimmer switches are so robust as to make ‘dirty’ electricity irrelevant. Computers are required to be even more robust.
No, computers are not, and have never been, more robust than a simple rheostat.

How robust? Some of the dirtiest electricity comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Of course, the many who know without learning numbers would believe popular myths. The numbers from this typical 120 volt UPS in battery backup mode. Its output voltage is two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. This voltage can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. And since electronics are so robust, this same UPS power is ideal for electronics.
Proof? And don't show me an experiment on some generic, low-quality generic UPS.

Power that must never harm electronics can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors - devices that are not as robust. Numbers that popular myth forgets to include. Too many above posts are nothing more than wild speculation when the author forgot to first learn basic electric principles. And never once posted numbers.

More numbers. The specifications on all electronics define normal voltage so low that an incandescent bulb at 50% intensity is perfectly ideal voltage to any electronics. That same low voltage may be harmful to the refrigerator, furnace, or dishwasher. One need only learn simple electrical concepts and the numbers to see why that is so.

Why is voltage held so stable to not dim bulbs to 50% intensity? Because voltage variations can cause air conditioner and fan motor damage. Why do so many worry about voltage variations to a computer? Because they believed what they were told to believe rather than first learn any numbers. That and knowledge only from observation are called junk science reasoning.
Except that the scope of this thread includes only computer power supplies, so what effects low mains voltages has on motors or compressors has no bearing in this conversation.
Why are those myths so widely believed? Because ineffective and obscene profit products are sold to cure those myths. For example, what is a power strip protector? A $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts selling for $25 or $150. With profit margins that high, even I would be posting those lies.
Who said anything about having to spend $25+ on a power strip?

How much power does a computer consume? Typically 200 watts. Therefore install 350 watt supplies. However, due to what they are measuring, some 350 watt supplies are also called 500 watts. No, they are not lying. They are just measuring something different.

To hype better 'quality', another myth is what Tim Allen so routinely mocked, "More Power!". More wattage does not mean a better supply. In fact to cut costs, some supplies sell more power while forgetting to include other essential functions. If the computer boots, the naive will not notice the missing functions. Sell a 1000 watt supply without those functions for less than $60 means a higher profit margin compared to a 400 watt supply with all those functions for more than $60. Those who know without first learning numbers and what those basic functions are will, instead, hype the 1000 watt supply. And then suffer failures latter due to those missing functions.
Read most of the recommendations in this thread, and in the rest of the forum actually, you would notice that most everyone here pushes build quality over wattage ratings. We'd rather you buy a 400W Corsair than a 700W generic psu.


I believe that is enough challenged urban myths for one day.

No, I believe all you have done is speculate further. You have provided no more evidence than anyone else in this thread.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
19,725 (2.86/day)
Location
w
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 5 7600
Motherboard MSI X670E Gaming Plus Wifi
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Corsair Vengeance @ 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Plantronics 5220, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Dell SK3205
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
A simple, and cheap surge protector protects you from spikes in voltage. If you do not have your computer plugged into a good surge protector, it's your fault.

Tell that to the guy who has no idea what the heck voltage means.

And he said "some myths", indicating he meant general myths, not just whatever myths have been posted here.
 

HammerON

The Watchful Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
8,400 (1.45/day)
Location
Up North
System Name Aki
Processor AMD 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS ROG STRIX X670E-A
Cooling MSI MAG CoreLiquid E360
Memory Patriot Viper Elite 5 32GB 6200
Video Card(s) PNY RTX 4090 XLR8
Storage Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB + WD Black SN850 1TB
Display(s) Dell 32" Curved Gaming Monitor (S3220DGF)
Case Corsair 5000D Airflow
Audio Device(s) On-board
Power Supply EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G5
Mouse Roccat Kone Pure
Keyboard ASUS ROG Strix Scope II Wireless
Software Win 11 Pro
Benchmark Scores Always changing~
I agree. I found westom's post helpful:)
But then again I am ignorant when it comes to understanding psu's~
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
180 (0.03/day)
Who said anything about that? I'm pretty sure most of us know a shorted psu just shuts off.
A post based in insufficient electrical knowledge. Denials made without 'reasons why' is insulting to everyone who bothered to first learn before posting.

A shorted power supply does not power off. It goes into current foldback limiting. A post based in observation and wild speculation would not know what supplies did even 50 years ago. One is supposed to learn this technology before posting.

Computers are some of the most robust devices in a building - as was demonstrated by examples and from manufacturer spec numbers. At least one had enough respect for the reader to also post ‘reasons why’.

Power supplies make a computer robust. Numeric specs make that obvious. UPS in battery backup mode outputs power so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. But electronics are so robust as to not be harmed by, for example, two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. Contrary to myths, power supplies make computers robust.

Anyone knows a dimmer switch is not "a simple rheostat". Obvious using two simple equations from high school physics (V=IR and P=VI). If it was a rheostat, then a dimmer switch would be too hot touch – as simple arithmetic says. Obviously - a dimmer switch is a semiconductor device; not as robust as any computer. If daily surges exist - as only the most electrically naive are told to believe - then everyone is replacing that semiconductor dimmer switch hourly or daily.

Power supplies only destroy a motherboard when the human has insufficient technical knowledge - ie buys power supplies that do not even meet minimal industry standards. Due to experts without electrical knowledge, those supplies can be dumped into the market at lower price and higher profits. The only reason why a motherboard can be damaged by the supply: Same technical knowledge that somehow 'knows' dimmer switches are rheostats.
And if the built in surge protection in the PSU is a fuse, you still go without a computer if it blows, as opening the unit and replacing the fuse yourself will void your warranty.
Anyone with minimal electrical knowledge knows a fuse provides no surge protection. Simplest numbers make that obvious. Surges are done in microseconds. Fuses take tens of milliseconds to blow. 300 consecutive surges could pass through any fuse and that fuse would not blow.

Fuses and circuit breakers protect humans after damage has occurred. Disconnects power so that damage does not cause a fire. But again, basic electrical knowledge. Only those trained in urban myths and hearsay ‘know’ a fuse provides surge protection.

If mains fluctuate, then a power supply maintains stable power or just shuts off. If power fluctuates - bulb dims to 50% - then motorized appliances can be damaged. And electronics remain unharmed. No power supply blows. It either provides constant and stable power. Or it shuts off - unharmed.

Now, an honest naysayer could say what part 'blows' if voltage fluctuates. That means the always required ‘reasons why’ was included. None were provided because that post is urban myths.

Destructive power fluctuations will first damage supplies that are not as robust – ie plug-in UPSes and power conditioners.

Power conditioners, et al are best located on the refrigerator and furnace that are at greater risk due to power fluctuations. Reality - those fluctuations exist only when myths are posted. When someone also 'knows' a dimmer switch is a rheostat. When fuses somehow become a surge protector. Same naivety may even recommend a power strip protector. All recommendations when one knows without first learning simple electrical concepts.

A power supply means power fluctuations are irrelevant and cause no damage.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
19,725 (2.86/day)
Location
w
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 5 7600
Motherboard MSI X670E Gaming Plus Wifi
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Corsair Vengeance @ 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Plantronics 5220, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Dell SK3205
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
Power supplies only destroy a motherboard when the human has insufficient technical knowledge - ie buys power supplies that do not even meet minimal industry standards. Due to experts without electrical knowledge, those supplies can be dumped into the market at lower price and higher profits.

These are not as common as they used to be though (at least not in my corner of the world). ^^
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
180 (0.03/day)
These are not as common as they used to be though (at least not in my corner of the world).
Probably because more now confront popular myths posted from near zero electrical knowledge. Those inferior supplies are still sold in big box stores and are still found in clone computers.

How to identify an inferior power supplies. Locate an AM (longwave) radio adjacent to that computer. Does noise interfere with reception from a 50 or 75 kilometer distant radio station? Then a power supply may be missing essential functions. Even defective power supplies will still boot a computer.
 

CDdude55

Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
8,178 (1.28/day)
Location
Virginia
System Name CDdude's Rig!
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 620
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz
Video Card(s) XFX HD 6970 2GB
Storage OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB
Display(s) ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080
Case Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window)
Audio Device(s) Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply Corsair 850TX
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1
How to identify an inferior power supplies. Locate an AM (longwave) radio adjacent to that computer. Does noise interfere with reception from a 50 or 75 kilometer distant radio station? Then a power supply may be missing essential functions. Even defective power supplies will still boot a computer.

Ya, i'll just stick to buying quality brands.;), For me, as long as it has good wattage, good amperage, maybe even modular cables to boot, then i'm a happy camper.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.64/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
A post based in insufficient electrical knowledge. Denials made without 'reasons why' is insulting to everyone who bothered to first learn before posting.

A shorted power supply does not power off. It goes into current foldback limiting. A post based in observation and wild speculation would not know what supplies did even 50 years ago. One is supposed to learn this technology before posting.

Computers are some of the most robust devices in a building - as was demonstrated by examples and from manufacturer spec numbers. At least one had enough respect for the reader to also post ‘reasons why’.

Power supplies make a computer robust. Numeric specs make that obvious. UPS in battery backup mode outputs power so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. But electronics are so robust as to not be harmed by, for example, two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. Contrary to myths, power supplies make computers robust.

Anyone knows a dimmer switch is not "a simple rheostat". Obvious using two simple equations from high school physics (V=IR and P=VI). If it was a rheostat, then a dimmer switch would be too hot touch – as simple arithmetic says. Obviously - a dimmer switch is a semiconductor device; not as robust as any computer. If daily surges exist - as only the most electrically naive are told to believe - then everyone is replacing that semiconductor dimmer switch hourly or daily.

Power supplies only destroy a motherboard when the human has insufficient technical knowledge - ie buys power supplies that do not even meet minimal industry standards. Due to experts without electrical knowledge, those supplies can be dumped into the market at lower price and higher profits. The only reason why a motherboard can be damaged by the supply: Same technical knowledge that somehow 'knows' dimmer switches are rheostats. Anyone with minimal electrical knowledge knows a fuse provides no surge protection. Simplest numbers make that obvious. Surges are done in microseconds. Fuses take tens of milliseconds to blow. 300 consecutive surges could pass through any fuse and that fuse would not blow.

Fuses and circuit breakers protect humans after damage has occurred. Disconnects power so that damage does not cause a fire. But again, basic electrical knowledge. Only those trained in urban myths and hearsay ‘know’ a fuse provides surge protection.

If mains fluctuate, then a power supply maintains stable power or just shuts off. If power fluctuates - bulb dims to 50% - then motorized appliances can be damaged. And electronics remain unharmed. No power supply blows. It either provides constant and stable power. Or it shuts off - unharmed.

Now, an honest naysayer could say what part 'blows' if voltage fluctuates. That means the always required ‘reasons why’ was included. None were provided because that post is urban myths.

Destructive power fluctuations will first damage supplies that are not as robust – ie plug-in UPSes and power conditioners.

Power conditioners, et al are best located on the refrigerator and furnace that are at greater risk due to power fluctuations. Reality - those fluctuations exist only when myths are posted. When someone also 'knows' a dimmer switch is a rheostat. When fuses somehow become a surge protector. Same naivety may even recommend a power strip protector. All recommendations when one knows without first learning simple electrical concepts.

A power supply means power fluctuations are irrelevant and cause no damage.
A shorted PSU stops powering the computer, therefore my use of the word off. I didn't think going further was needed (not that I knew exactly why it stopped working), just that it does, and usually turns back on after you fix the short. Didn't really think the technicalities were important. But new knowledge is new knowledge, and I always appreciate that.

Well, after doing a little digging, I see modern dimmers aren't simple rheostats anymore. I had no experience with these, however, as my last home had all rheostat style dimmers (none in my current home). There are still many dimmer switches that are still just a simple variable resistor. Was never one for dimmers, so I concede the point.

But please, show me where a UPS, power conditioner or surge protector on you computer is harmful. I want to see actual studies and tests. Without them, you are still offering nothing but speculation. Am I saying you are wrong? No. I am just saying that you need to back your statements. Flaunting intelligence and providing proof are 2 entirely different things, especially when you are going against common beliefs. You'll need more than just claims to change people's minds.

And I do know the basics. I know that it's generally electric motors that suffer damage from undervoltage. And I know it's because they can't come out of their start cycle. Beyond that, I know little.

I never claimed to be an engineer. I know the basics, and I know it's better safe than sorry for most things, thus the common held belief that surge protectors and UPSs are good things. If all of us that believe that are wrong, please show us.

I also never claimed surges are a daily occurrence. My use of a UPS is for my f@h and WCG progress to be saved in case of a power failure. I just figured power conditioning was an added benefit.

I'd also like to point out, that all claims made in this thread about psus taking out hardware were and are made in reference to sub-standard, low quality brands. AKA: Us warning people against buying low quality psus, and spending a little extra on a quality unit.

So basically, if you want to school us, give us links, provide us with reading material and info. Show us why we are wrong. Take the extra step to combat urban myths by providing evidence that we are being duped, because as it stands, your posts provide no more evidence than mine, despite the fact it appears you know much more on the subject than I do.
 

CDdude55

Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
8,178 (1.28/day)
Location
Virginia
System Name CDdude's Rig!
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 620
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz
Video Card(s) XFX HD 6970 2GB
Storage OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB
Display(s) ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080
Case Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window)
Audio Device(s) Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply Corsair 850TX
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1
No need to go all in depth people, we get it, you have a degree in electronics/enginnering.Learning new things is always a good thing, but what is it you're trying to prove?, it went from something about shorting out PSU's to some shit about power conditioners and physics. Say what you got to say about the subject at hand and move on.
Westom:
A post based in insufficient electrical knowledge.
One need only learn simple electrical concepts and the numbers to see why that is so.

Obvious using two simple equations from high school physics

All recommendations when one knows without first learning simple electrical concepts

None were provided because that post is urban myths

Reality - those fluctuations exist only when myths are posted

Those who know without first learning numbers and what those basic functions are will, instead, hype the 1000 watt supply
Calm down dude, no one is questioning your uber superior school degrees.
:shadedshu
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
180 (0.03/day)
But please, show me where a UPS, power conditioner or surge protector on you computer is harmful. I want to see actual studies and tests. Without them, you are still offering nothing but speculation.
Explained is why all telco switching stations locate protectors as close as possible to earth ground. And why a protector is located as much as 50 meters away from electronics. Telco routinely do this because 100 years of knowledge demonstrates what is necessary for surge protection.

A 1994 IEEE paper also describes what happens. Dr Martzloff's very first conclusion describes how plug-in (point of connection) devices are harmful:
> Conclusion:
> 1) Quantitative measurements in the Upside-Down house clearly show objectionable difference in
> reference voltages. These occur even when or perhaps because, surge protective devices are present
> at the point of connection of appliances.

Long before Dr Martzloff's paper, we saw same. Two plug-in protectors connected the surge destrctively into two powered off computer motherboards. Incoming on AC mains. Through protectors (bypassing protection in each power supply). Outgoing via NICs. Through the network. Into a third powered off computer. Out to earth ground destructively via modem and the telephone line. Three times explained is why adjacent protectors are not used and can contribute to appliance damage.

Meanwhile, dimmers were using semiconductors (thyristors) since the 1960s. If hourly or daily surges are destroying electronics, then you are replacing dimmer switches daily. Those mytical surges do not exist despite a majority who believe otherwise. Why are you not replacing dimmer switches and clock radios? Because all electronics already contain protection that plug-in devices are supposed to provide. Some of the more robust protection must already exist in a power supply. But selling a supply that is missing these functions (and still boots the computer) means higher profits even at a lower retail price

Informed consumers worry about the rare and destructive transient that occurs typically once every seven years. A UPS does not even claim to protect from. That number can vary significantly even in the same town. Therefore informed consumers earth one 'whole house' protector. A solution that costs about $1 per protected appliance. That makes even direct lightning strikes irrelevant. That means everything is protected including furnace, refirgerator, and bathroom GFCIs. Which device most needs protection is a surge exists? Smoke detectors (or fire alarms). None must fail during a surge. The single effective solution also makes lesser transients irrelevant.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. If permitted inside the building, then it will hunt for earth destructively via some appliance. The informed consumer earthing one 'whole house' protector so that energy is not inside the building.

US Air Force defines where protectors are best located. Not plug-in protectors. The US Air Force says:
> 15. Surge Protection.
> 15.1. Entering or exiting metallic power, intrusion detection, communication antenna, and instrumentation
> lines must have surge protection sized for lightning surges to reduce transient voltages to a harmless
> level. Install the surge protection as soon as practical where the conductor enters the interior of
> the facility. Devices commonly used for this include metal oxide varistors, gas tube arresters,
> and transzorbs.

Effective protection means energy is harmlessly absorbed in earth. Means protection already inside every minimally acceptable supply is not overwhelmed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Therefore the effective protector is located typically 'less than 10 feet' to single point earth ground. And may cost tens or 100 times less money.
 
Last edited:

vipz

New Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
15 (0.00/day)
i only mentioned that a psu must have a protection for mains fluctuations and this topic goes a long way.
generally a psu dont have protection for mains fluctuations,but only for after psu events.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top