PSU Guide

[keakar]

i dont know anything about using tecs but the way they are made can have a very dramatic failure when they go out. if they just fail due to an open circuit in them it is no big deal but if they short out they can blow dramatically and with enough power to zap anything on the same line. think of them as a light socket, when you stick a screwdriver in the socket it will flash pretty good and the fuse will trip but before it does it may or may not melt the wire to the lamp. now think of that in terms of the computer being the lamp wire.

i know that tecs are very finiky about having a strong and stable power supply, even minor variations can easily cause them to fail. im not sure but i think they also require a lot of amps to run so it is like double insurance to seperate the power supply for safety in protecting the other computer circuits and also since it has its own power supply it has very strong amps and a stable power supply for running.

the other parts of the computer cause fluctuations in the power supply as power demands change so it is always fluctuating.

 

[keakar]

most people dont even notice the difference so. ?

well i did learn from all this that the psu is different depending on the series it is.

the atx 12v has certain guidelines and amperage limits

the atx 1.1 has certain guidelines and amperage limits that are different

the atx 2.0 has certain guidelines and amperage limits that are different

the atx 2.2 has certain guidelines and amperage limits that are different

each one has different specs from the other as far as amperages, rails, and watts.

so it is very very confusing but the higher the series number it seems the lower the 12v rail amp limit goes but the more rails you get. i think thats where most of the confusion was, comparing psu with different designs so they werent working the same.

 

[Wile E]

i dont know anything about using tecs but the way they are made can have a very dramatic failure when they go out. if they just fail due to an open circuit in them it is no big deal but if they short out they can blow dramatically and with enough power to zap anything on the same line. think of them as a light socket, when you stick a screwdriver in the socket it will flash pretty good and the fuse will trip but before it does it may or may not melt the wire to the lamp. now think of that in terms of the computer being the lamp wire.

i know that tecs are very finiky about having a strong and stable power supply, even minor variations can easily cause them to fail. im not sure but i think they also require a lot of amps to run so it is like double insurance to seperate the power supply for safety in protecting the other computer circuits and also since it has its own power supply it has very strong amps and a stable power supply for running.

the other parts of the computer cause fluctuations in the power supply as power demands change so it is always fluctuating.

You pretty much got it. But the biggest reason, is the sheer amount of power they pull. The TEC that I had pulled near 20A on it's own. A constant 20A draw can get very hard on a normal psu, not to mention cause power issues with other components. Plus, it actually usually ends up being slightly cheaper to run an aux psu, rather than spend the money on an uber psu capable of handling the load a TEC can consume.

But, as you can tell from the link in my sig, not setting it up properly, can result in disaster.

 

[keakar]

But, as you can tell from the link in my sig, not setting it up properly, can result in disaster.

yes, but that was your own fault for spending too much time flirting with that cashier lol.

 

[keakar]

You pretty much got it. But the biggest reason, is the sheer amount of power they pull. The TEC that I had pulled near 20A on it's own. A constant 20A draw can get very hard on a normal psu, not to mention cause power issues with other components. Plus, it actually usually ends up being slightly cheaper to run an aux psu, rather than spend the money on an uber psu capable of handling the load a TEC can consume.

But, as you can tell from the link in my sig, not setting it up properly, can result in disaster.

i am assuming a single rail psu is best to run a tec then?

and maybe a dual rail is best to run a tec with a waterpump for water cooling system?

 

[Wile E]

yes, but that was your own fault for spending too much time flirting with that cashier lol.

lol. Funny, but I think you're thinking of the wrong person. At least as far as my TEC mishap is concerned. lol.

 

[panchoman]

well yeah, thats what i was thinking off, is why not just get a pcp&c single rail 1000 psu, it'll power your 20A tec and still have 60A left over to power your 500W system, and its single rail so it'll be able to draw with no problems as long as you have enough power for it. but then again, many pumps use their own power which they draw from the wall. a p35 chipset board with a q6600 g0 and a 2900xt will be able to run on a 500W psu. and so addind lets say 300Watts worth of tec's and a pump to a 1000w psu with a powerful 80A rail shouldn't be a problem. and it'd just be cheaper then buying an aux (and dont skimp on the relay switch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) everytime i think about tecs and aux psu's, i always think of you and what happend wile e.

 

[Wile E]

well yeah, thats what i was thinking off, is why not just get a pcp&c single rail 1000 psu, it'll power your 20A tec and still have 60A left over to power your 500W system, and its single rail so it'll be able to draw with no problems as long as you have enough power for it. but then again, many pumps use their own power which they draw from the wall. a p35 chipset board with a q6600 g0 and a 2900xt will be able to run on a 500W psu. and so addind lets say 300Watts worth of tec's and a pump to a 1000w psu with a powerful 80A rail shouldn't be a problem. and it'd just be cheaper then buying an aux (and dont skimp on the relay switch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) everytime i think about tecs and aux psu's, i always think of you and what happend wile e.

I lol'ed.

But the fact of the matter is, a relay switch and Meanwell can be had for about $120 shipped to your door. Add the $130 I spent on my main psu, and you have $250. A quality 1000w psu costs a fair bit more than that. Although some can be had for around that price. But, even still, thru testing, the aux psu setup proves to be more stable, which is why it's the preferred method.

 

[keakar]

well yeah, thats what i was thinking off, is why not just get a pcp&c single rail 1000 psu, it'll power your 20A tec and still have 60A left over to power your 500W system, and its single rail so it'll be able to draw with no problems as long as you have enough power for it. but then again, many pumps use their own power which they draw from the wall. a p35 chipset board with a q6600 g0 and a 2900xt will be able to run on a 500W psu. and so addind lets say 300Watts worth of tec's and a pump to a 1000w psu with a powerful 80A rail shouldn't be a problem. and it'd just be cheaper then buying an aux (and dont skimp on the relay switch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) everytime i think about tecs and aux psu's, i always think of you and what happend wile e.

well even though you have plenty of power it will still fluctuate as things draw more and less power so it would cause failure if you used a tec. without the tec i dont see a problem but most of the limits they used on the rails were for safety so they had system protection in mind. a single rail wouldnt give you as much protection if it failed. price might be an issue as well, but i cant see any reason you cant use the single rail as long as it has enough power for your needs. heat production and energy efficiency might be different as well.

 

[panchoman]

i noticed something: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3...ry_Power_Supply_SE-600-24.html?tl=g30c105s190

its a 24v psu, the regular psu's are 12 5 and 3.3. i hope companies are working on more eco friendly tecs!!!

is it just mean or that thing huge? looks like one of those longass 1600 psu's only its slimmer, thats one huge rail, and this thing is suppossed to fit in the 5 25 bays?

 

[keakar]

The transformer has a maximum output of 57amp. here is a picture of the OCZ GameXstream pcb showing how the single transformer outputs into a common rail, which is then devided and limited to 18amp each.

all you need to do to get a single rail out of a 4 rail psu is to bridge the terminals it shows here. it starts as one big juction then crosses over the limiting device to 4 individual rails. if you crossed the 4 rails you would only get a single 18amp rail but if you bridged each rail to the main juction you bypass the limits and get full use from any rail. this is not recommended because pulling too much can overheat and melt the wires. it would allow you to get that 20 amps you needed from one rail though. this would only work if the wire was rated to handle that much juice. this would be a last resort type of mod.

 

[panchoman]

all you need to do to get a single rail out of a 4 rail psu is to bridge the terminals it shows here. it starts as one big juction then crosses over the limiting device to 4 individual rails. if you crossed the 4 rails you would only get a single 18amp rail but if you bridged each rail to the main juction you bypass the limits and get full use from any rail. this is not recommended because pulling too much can overheat and melt the wires. it would allow you to get that 20 amps you needed from one rail though. this would only work if the wire was rated to handle that much juice. this would be a last resort type of mod.

but with the proper setup, wouldn't you say that this method is more effective?

oh and wile e, would you like to share some info on that mean well psu and possibly provide us with its ul number so that we can find out how the oem for it is? if you, it'd really help cause i'll be putting up a tec section. heres some updates that i'm going to do over the weekend(and some over the week if i find time):

-color coding revamp for the 3rd time

-19 more brands (this could take longer, its my last thing on the to do list for this guide)

-updating rails and modular sections(i'll be erasing the sections today, will rewrite em l8r)

- adding auxiliary psu information.

 

[keakar]

but with the proper setup, wouldn't you say that this method is more effective?

well thats hard to say because i thing what makes one better than the other is how it fits your computer setup.

depending on your power needs a single rail is better for lower amperge needs but when you get to higher amperages the wires just cant handle that many amps so they need special premium grade wires of higher guages. this got exspensive to do so they decided to just run more than one wire to power the same source and thats how dual rails were born and again with sli and crossfire they needed even more amps so they kept adding rails.

when it comes down to it they are just using two wires together to power the same thing but instead of connecting the wires together they run power through the board as well as directly from the plug. but your still just connecting 2 wires from the same power source to 1 device.

a 2 rail psu using 14 guage wire can safely supply the system with up to 32 amps on each leg and 12 guage wire can safely supply the system with up to 41 amps on each leg according to this chart: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

 

[Wile E]

but with the proper setup, wouldn't you say that this method is more effective?

oh and wile e, would you like to share some info on that mean well psu and possibly provide us with its ul number so that we can find out how the oem for it is? if you, it'd really help cause i'll be putting up a tec section. heres some updates that i'm going to do over the weekend(and some over the week if i find time):

-color coding revamp for the 3rd time

-19 more brands (this could take longer, its my last thing on the to do list for this guide)

-updating rails and modular sections(i'll be erasing the sections today, will rewrite em l8r)

- adding auxiliary psu information.

No Prob. The UL# is E183223, and the OEM is Mean Well themselves. The model # is SP-320-12. It's a 12v 320W peak switching PSU with pfc. It's rated for 25A, and is 86% efficient at full load with 230V AC input.

It's actually an industrial psu. That's the market Mean Well is targeted to. It's not directly marketed for the computer market.

I attached the test sheets.

 

[panchoman]

theres not much of a difference, they're basically the same, same trasnsformer, multi rails aren't truely multi rail, same transformer, only with multi rail the power is seperated into different wires. bridge the rails and you have single rail.

 

[panchoman]

No Prob. The UL# is E183223, and the OEM is Mean Well themselves. The model # is SP-320-12. It's a 12v 320W peak switching PSU with pfc. It's rated for 25A, and is 86% efficient at full load with 230V AC input.

It's actually an industrial psu. That's the market Mean Well is targeted to. It's not directly marketed for the computer market.

I attached the test sheets.

ah very good, thanks for the ul number, i'll put it up on the brand/oem list soon. the stats of the psu are preety sweet.. while its an industrial psu, does it fit in the 5 25 bays like the other aux. psus?

 

[Wile E]

ah very good, thanks for the ul number, i'll put it up on the brand/oem list soon. the stats of the psu are preety sweet.. while its an industrial psu, does it fit in the 5 25 bays like the other aux. psus?

Not quite. You need a bracket, and it's a bit longer than the normal 5 1/4" aux psus.

 

[panchoman]

Not quite. You need a bracket, and it's a bit longer than the normal 5 1/4" aux psus.

so how'd you mount that meanwell psu?

 

[keakar]

theres not much of a difference, they're basically the same, same trasnsformer, multi rails aren't truely multi rail, same transformer, only with multi rail the power is seperated into different wires. bridge the rails and you have single rail.

exacly, but they split it up so they can use smaller wires that are easier to manipulate amps to be safe on standard sized wire.

check this chart of wire sizes and the amps they can handle: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

as you can see 12 guage is limited to 41 amps and a 10 guage wire is very stiff and thick so it would be hell to run on a small wiring harness like in a computer. so i would say the12 guage @ 40 amps would be your single rail size limit per leg but running two legs as most single rails do you can easy handle 80 amps with single rail 2 leg psu.

 

[Wile E]

so how'd you mount that meanwell psu?

Personally, I didn't have a permanent mount, as my rig never made it past the testing phase. But, I had a sheet of aluminum lined up to make a custom bracket. The psu is wider than 3 1/2", but narrower than 5 1/4". It was just a matter of cutting, bending, and drilling the sheet to make it fit in a 5 1/4" bay. Only tools needed would've been a pair of tin snips, vice, drill, and a screw driver. (Aluminum sheet is fairly easy to bend)

 

[panchoman]

exacly, but they split it up so they can use smaller wires that are easier to manipulate and also the very big transformers actually put out too many amps to be safe on one wire.

check this chart of wire sizes and the amps they can handle: http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

as you can see 12 guage is limited to 41 amps and a 10 guage wire is very stiff and thick so it would be hell to run on a small wiring harness like in a computer. so i would say the 40 amps would be your single rail size limit before going to 2 rails.

so well its like it doesn't matter, just get whichever is better via other specs. and same with modular, it doesn't matter, you just get some minor voltage drop, thats all.

 

[panchoman]

Personally, I didn't have a permanent mount, as my rig never made it past the testing phase. But, I had a sheet of aluminum lined up to make a custom bracket. The psu is wider than 3 1/2", but narrower than 5 1/4". It was just a matter of cutting, bending, and drilling the sheet to make it fit in a 5 1/4" bay. Only tools needed would've been a pair of tin snips, vice, drill, and a screw driver. (Aluminum sheet is fairly easy to bend)

i c, how long is it? i think you can just put it on the floor with the hdd's and it'd be fine there.

 

[keakar]

IMHO a psu has only 1 rail as long as it has only 1 transformer.

to have two rails you need 2 power sources not one.

to follow the logic used to call them rails then my old psu is a two rail because it uses two molex leads coming off the same transformer. just because it has a limiter spliced in does not magically make it a seperate power source.

 

[Wile E]

i c, how long is it? i think you can just put it on the floor with the hdd's and it'd be fine there.

It's 215mm/8.5" long. I had it on the floor of my case, but it was raised up a little with a neoprene pad, to keep the airflow holes clear.

 

[keakar]

Personally, I didn't have a permanent mount, as my rig never made it past the testing phase. But, I had a sheet of aluminum lined up to make a custom bracket. The psu is wider than 3 1/2", but narrower than 5 1/4". It was just a matter of cutting, bending, and drilling the sheet to make it fit in a 5 1/4" bay. Only tools needed would've been a pair of tin snips, vice, drill, and a screw driver. (Aluminum sheet is fairly easy to bend)

why not use an old cd drive frame n throw out the guts, instant tray with pre threaded mounting holes