PSU question Regarding GPU upgrades

[EarthDog]

I wonder how many of these people who are so hypercritical when it comes to the Power Consumption of various GFX cards, are running a PSU that is overkill for the power needs of their machine?

You just need to look at their systems and see.

If you look at mine, the relevant part is the daily driver. Obviously a test bench needs more power. When I had 295x2 and 5820K overclocked, is when I bought that Supernova G2 750W PSU. I got rid of that card and CPU. Clearly, it doesn't make any monetary sense to sell my PSU and get a smaller one. However, if I was buying for my current system, (6950X and GTX 1070). I wouldn't buy more than a 500W PSU as I don't run multiple GPUs. Both the 1070 and 6950X overclocked to the moon on ambient wouldn't use more than 400W and that is with both folding or doing something at 100% (i.e... not gaming - more of a worst case).

 

[Ungari]

Another question is:

What sense does it make to buy a Titanium or Platinum rated PSU if your wattage is overkill since you will never reach 80 percent load?

 

[EarthDog]

Another question is:

What sense does it make to buy a Titanium or Platinum rated PSU if your wattage is overkill since you will never reach 80 percent load?

I don't understand your question.......you do understand how PSU efficiency works and how flat its curve is over the measure points, right?

I wouldn't buy titanium/platinum (at cost) unless I used it 24/7/365. Unless you are running loaded 24/7/365, chances are you will not make up that 1% difference a Platinum makes over gold or titanium over platinum. We suggested he keep his awesome gold PSU...

What are you getting at Ungari?????

 

[64K]

This is often misunderstood what a PSU is rated for. A fine explanation can be had here by one of our members

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...lly-need-an-80-plus-gold-power-supply.129456/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus

Unless the PSU will be needed for max 24/7 then it's not really an issue to buy a Platinum or Titanium PSU unless electricity is really expensive where you live.

 

[Ungari]

I don't understand your question.......you do understand how PSU efficiency works and how flat its curve is over the measure points, right?

I wouldn't buy titanium/platinum (at cost) unless I used it 24/7/365. Unless you are running loaded 24/7/365, chances are you will not make up that 1% difference a Platinum makes over gold or titanium over platinum. We suggested he keep his awesome gold PSU...

What are you getting at Ungari?????

What I'm saying is if say a system has a max power draw of only 400W, and a person installs a 1500W Platinum PSU, that PSU will never be taxed to worry about 80+ percent efficiency , correct?

Such an overkill PSU would override any energy bill savings given by the higher efficiency rating too, no?

Sorry, if I don't understand, I'm just trying get an explanation.

 

[Frick]

What I'm saying is if say a system has a max power draw of only 400W, and a person installs a 1200W Platimum PSU, that PSU will never be taxed to 80 percent, correct?

I assume you mean that PSU's is supposed to be most effective at 80% load? That is not strictly true, it depends on the PSU probably. A quick look on a couple of jonnyguru reviews shows it really is most effective in the 20%-80% range. And besides, I don't get how you can buy a PSU based on how effective it will be at 80% load because 1) the hungry components (CPU and GPU) have awesome regulation capabilites so the voltages are in constant fluctuation, and b) it's not worth it.

 

[EarthDog]

What I'm saying is if say a system has a max power draw of only 400W, and a person installs a 1200W Platinum PSU, that PSU will never be taxed to worry about 80+ percent efficiency , correct?

Such an overkill PSU would override any energy bill savings given by the higher efficiency rating too, no?

Sorry, if I don't understand, I'm just trying get an explanation.

Still not quite sure what you are asking...If someone bought a 1.2KW PSU and their system ran 400W, they just wasted a ton of money. Modern PSU efficiency curves are pretty darn flat throughout the measure points. Look at some reviews: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story3&reid=377

You can see there the difference throughout the range was 3%. If you paid $250 for a 1.2KW PSU versus $80 for a 500W... you will NEVER EVER make up the cost difference in efficiency, even at 24/7/365. The 'sweetspot' for PSUs is around the 50-60% range, but again, the difference there and running it at say 80% of its capacity, still doesn't make up the monetary difference through efficiency. YOu are now talking a 500W PSU versus an 800-1KW...Maybe if you were 24/7/365 for several years (talking 6-10) would you come close to making up the difference.

Just takes some basic math to figure it out.

 

[Ungari]

I had edited my post to a 1500W PSU for the example to make sure I was getting loads under 20% under normal conditions.
My understanding was that 80 PLUS did not have to efficient, and often aren't, at loads less than 20%, is this true?

 

[EarthDog]

Depends on the Tier of 80 PLUS you are talking about... It is not until Titanium that a threshold is required below 20% (10%).

But yes, typically, below 20% there is a steep falloff. Regardless though, if I idle at 80W and my PSU is 500W, I am still below 20%... now, if I get a 1KW PSU, I am below 10% now...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus

Im just not sure you are understanding how PSU efficiency works Ungari....... or am I not understanding your question(s)...

 

[thebluebumblebee]

under 20% under normal conditions.
My understanding was that 80 PLUS did not have to efficient, and often aren't, at loads less than 20%, is this true?

This used to be more of an issue than it is now - that efficiency would fall of dramatically at very low power usage levels. It's not that 80 PLUS does not work at these low levels, it's just how PSU's work. As you can see from the chart that @EarthDog just posted, you really don't want to size a 80 PLUS Bronze PSU to be running under 20% load, although, we need to understand that 30% waste for a 60 watt load is not that much anyway. (One of these guys actually did the math to show that it's pennies a month - maybe @newtekie1 ?)

Yet here is a picture of my system under actual full load.

You might want to check for C18 locker aliens.

 

[Ungari]

I'm not sure how to rephrase my questions to be understood, and for that I apologize.

While I was talking about the overkill choices of others when choosing a PSU, this discussion has got me thinking about the importance, or lack thereof of the 80 PLUS certification levels, and what should I choose for myself on the next build that I'm planning. I am looking at either crypto-currency mining with a single card, or gaming with Crossfire depending on future releases. If Platinum and Titanium standards are not worth the extra cost, what would you say is the minimum certification level one should purchase?

 

[EarthDog]

Gold. After Gold the price goes up a lot more than from bronze to silver, and silver to gold in many cases.

I wouldn't waste your time with mining.. that was gone and past (even with value being high now) unless you have dedicated miners (NOT GPUs - ASICs).

But that is WAY off topic for the OP.

 

[Grings]

I agree with you guys for the most part, but would ask the op to consider a few things if you are looking to overclock heavily..

Overclocking these things can add 150w power draw PER CARD https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_Fury_X_Overvoltage/2.html

If you are trying to overclock both by any large margin you are going to see that 280w power draw go well out of the window

wizzards test saw 150w extra power draw in bf3, so conservatively, you are looking at 350w typical to over 400w peak gaming (not furmark, gaming)

I assumed this is why your watt meter reading is quite high for the current specs

Then theres the CPU, again, depending how much you overclock it, the power consumption can get a little crazy

This is probably not the best article, but shows how power draw can climb when pushing the 5960x: http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/september/haswell_e_overclocking_and_power

I also took ther liberty of assuming as you were looking at a 5960x you might consider watercooling in the future, this can add 30w or more (a d5 pump alone uses 28w)

Those power readings are peaks, and while i have no doubt the psu is up to running this, for years at sensible overclocks, its a little too close for comfort in my opinion, and pushing both cards and the chip hard has the potential to go waaay over 850w

I'm not trying to be an argumentative butthole by the way i just see the potential for massive power draw from that 5960 and 2 furies if clocked heavily

 

[EarthDog]

Holy cow... why would anyone do that to themselves? I have a giga 480 coming in soon for a review... may be interesting to see where I end up..

 

[xkm1948]

Not gonna OC FuryX, only OC the 5960X. I have tried OC FuryX in the past and I know it is kinda PITA to deal with.

 

[xkm1948]

And yes I totally agree about going AIO. Plus I HAVE to go AIO if adding a second FuryX. With just one FuryX it is tight within my Define R5. The NoctuaD15 is just HUGE. I will be getting a Predator 280 to cool the new octa core. I will not overclock FuryX but I do plan to OC 5960X to at least 4.3~4.4GHz.


As for another question. Would it be smart if I wait until ZEN release to pick up a new CPU? Used 5960X is still kinda expesnive. I figure if ZEN performs well enough there might be people getting rid of their 5960X or even 6950X cheap.

 

[Grings]

Yeah definitely ok on the evga then

Sorry about the massive doubt post, just didn't want to see you try for competition level clocks (on the gpu's) and hurt anything

I dont think they will drop much, as a top chip you have as good a chance now as any other time to pick one up, people who want the top chip usually also have to have the latest so are selling at the moment to get 10 core broadwells

 

[xkm1948]

Yeah definitely ok on the evga then

Sorry about the massive doubt post, just didn't want to see you try for competition level clocks (on the gpu's) and hurt anything

I dont think they will drop much, as a top chip you have as good a chance now as any other time to pick one up, people who want the top chip usually also have to have the latest so are selling at the moment to get 10 core broadwells

I like you mentioned the OC and I should probably have cleared that in the beginning. Going from 6 core to 8 or even 10 core HEDT is partially because it will benefit my work as well.

As for the second FuryX it is more for VR. Although using FijiXT GPU for OpenCL as well as protein modeling has shown some progress for me, it is still too much work for me right now. As most OpenCL based protein modeling software requires some serious debugging to run.

 

[Mr.Scott]

I wonder how many of these people who are so hypercritical when it comes to the Power Consumption of various GFX cards, are running a PSU that is overkill for the power needs of their machine?

All of them.

 

[i7Baby]

I go on RealHardTech's recommendations - http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
- 1000W for a PC with 2 x Fury X.

I have 2 x Nanos - 750W. I don't OC them though - you can't really. All that happens is that they go a slight bit faster and a lot hotter.

 

[Mr.Scott]

I go on RealHardTech's recommendations - http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
- 1000W for a PC with 2 x Fury X.

I have 2 x Nanos - 750W. I don't OC them though - you can't really. All that happens is that they go a slight bit faster and a lot hotter.

Benched 2 OC'ed 580's and a FX 9590 all sub ambient on a 750w PSU. Never had a problem.

 

[slozomby]

As for another question. Would it be smart if I wait until ZEN release to pick up a new CPU? Used 5960X is still kinda expesnive. I figure if ZEN performs well enough there might be people getting rid of their 5960X or even 6950X cheap.

depends on what you're using the machine for. if its purely workstation/multithreaded work then it makes sense. and you should also consider a 14/16 core xeon. they're fairly cheap on ebay.

 

[wolar]

I go on RealHardTech's recommendations - http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm
- 1000W for a PC with 2 x Fury X.

I have 2 x Nanos - 750W. I don't OC them though - you can't really. All that happens is that they go a slight bit faster and a lot hotter.

Yes but they calculate the worst case , when everything is at 100% and then they put even more up (to sell higher w units i guess).
Realistically 850 is enough , the only problem might be the acoustics as the PSU will stress some times

 

[EarthDog]

Jesus... this site...

How many times do we have to conclusively answer this and talk about acoustics with his specific psu????!!!!! it's dead silent!!!

 

[eidairaman1]

I wonder how many of these people who are so hypercritical when it comes to the Power Consumption of various GFX cards, are running a PSU that is overkill for the power needs of their machine?

Mine is overkill but I have future upgrades for this rig.