Radeon HD 4870 X2, HD 4850 X2 Faster and Better Than GeForce GTX 295, 285: AMD

[Noggrin]

Marketing? LOL, marketing is one thing, dishonesty is another..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishonesty

So yeah, we wont stop "bitching" cos liars deserves whats coming to them..

 

[erocker]

Warnings have been handed out to those who cannot stay on topic. Infractions are next. There is no discussion of this matter, stay on topic or don't post. That includes "quoting" this post. STAY ON TOPIC.

 

[r9]

Same old new shit.

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

Yea, that's his point. 4870x2 only beat 295 because it has higher vram. In most situations gtx295 beats it because a lot of people do 1650 x 1080 and 1920 x 1200 which the 295 will perform better.

It does?

Anyone can explain why NV cards go limp at 2*** res? other than the above explanation

 

[zithe]

It does?

Anyone can explain why NV cards go limp at 2*** res? other than the above explanation

4870x2 (1024 x 2 ) vs. GTX 295 (896 x 2)

 

[CDdude55]

Well, GTX 295 is still in the 1GB range while 4870 X2 is 2GB, they should both fair well at high res, but i guess certain apps that really need VRAM will favor the 4870 X2.

 

[leonard_222003]

Even those who choose a side they still buy the best card for the money they want to spend. (unlles they are very very stupid and fat/Tv raised/unemployed/tipical sit on his ass american)
I like Ati more but i had a lot of Nvidia cards latetly because Ati didn't delivered anything good and i will buy Nvidia again if it proves to be better.
Now trough all the smoke and mirrors Nvidia throws there is little intrest for the buyer of low end and mainstream graphics cards that Ati or Nvidia has the best card , what is most important is what can i get at 50$ or 100$ or 150$ , how much perf. and goodies to make my experience on my computer better (watching movies , playing games ..... etc.).
For me at this time Ati delivered better than Nvidia because is cheaper and has the same or better perf. , maybe next time Nvidia will be better.

 

[kid41212003]

It acts as 1 GB

That's why I wrote 1GBx2.

 

[Marineborn]

anybody that is a fanboy is gonna find a reason to defend there card. i mean come on these cards the 4870x2 and the gtx295 are just redicuously powerfull. i mean what is the reason for this much power. LOL!!! i dont care they stay in competition make stuff cheaper for me. win win. i look forward to anything ati and nvidia do, keep advancing technology i want some sweet stuff

 

[mxvolta]

what if?

what if I (or any) made this images in my laptop... you know 15 mins of search/copy/paste-google-magic??

have anyone tought of that? i mean everybody is taking sides here... cmon you can't be so naive and think this MUST be legitimate... just saying

 

[DaJMasta]

They used the highest resolution which is the weak point of GTX 295, because of its limited memory vs 1GBx2 of ATI cards.

I think this is believable.

I agree, I don't think they'd outright lie, but the definitely cherry picked benchmarks and settings to show their cards in the most positive light.

The DX10.1 shadow thing is interesting, but I'm still on XP

 

[imperialreign]

goodlord . . . the amount of fanboish dribble that's been spewed in this thread . . . not just from the nVidia fanbois, but the ATI fanbois as well . . . :shadedshu

(and why is it these kinds of news articles seem to draw them out of the woodwork like fumigating a termite-infested home?)



anyhow - so nVidia has managed to steal the crown for a short while with the GTX 295 . . . and ATI release some slides that try to claim some kind of hold on it . . . well, all things considered - at least they waited until after the new nVidia card was on the market - unlike the green camp's tactics which usually call for blasting ATI before their cards are on the shelf (like nVidia has special, insider access to ATI's newest beasts )

So - for all those willing to go rush out and grab a 295 . . . please keep in mind that nVidia pretty-much had their asses handed back to them throughout the last half of 2008 . . . and ATI does have a new beast in the works as well (one that seems to have completely confounded most of us in terms of it's specs, and what it will be capable of) . . . it's quite possible that 2, 3, maybe 4 or 5 months from now, nVidia will completely lose the performance crown again . . .

. . . and people will still be crying that nVidia's hardware is better, that people purchasing ATI don't know what they're doing . . .

. . . and never give credit for the fact that if ATI hadn't gotten back on the ball last year - you'd be paying $900+ for that spanking-new GTX 295, instead of the $500 it's at right now.


So - all things considered . . . quitcher bitchin.

 

[Noggrin]

please keep in mind that nVidia pretty-much had their asses handed back to them throughout the last half of 2008

Yeah, and ATI had their asses handed to them in for 2 years.. whats your point?

ATI does have a new beast in the works as well (one that seems to have completely confounded most of us in terms of it's specs, and what it will be capable of) . . . it's quite possible that 2, 3, maybe 4 or 5 months from now, nVidia will completely lose the performance crown again . . .

And then nVidia will get out with new card and then ATI and then.. ... ... .... ... ...

and never give credit for the fact that if ATI hadn't gotten back on the ball last year - you'd be paying $900+ for that spanking-new GTX 295, instead of the $500 it's at right now.

I really love this one..

What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?

 

[CDdude55]

There obviously not going to put up slides saying there card fails up against the GTX 295. Just depends what you like or prefer.

 

[imperialreign]

Yeah, and ATI had their asses handed to them in for 2 years.. whats your point?

and 2 years prior, nVidia was getting reamed by ATI - it's a friggin cycle, and will continue to be that way.

My point was for all the fanbois that are screaming the 295 is the "be-all, end-all," like nVidia hasn't had it rough for the last 7+ months.

I really love this one..

What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?

it's somewhat of a first for ATI . . . keep in mind nVidia has a real bad habit of pulling these kinds of stunts . . . they've been more than notorious for it in the past, so much so that most people come to expect it from the green camp - nevermind the fact that nVidia has been re-stickering their low-end and mid-range cards for the last 2 gens.

God forbid ATI fight nVidia on their battlefield, right? - in all honesty, that's proven more beneficial for them over the last year than trying to keep a clean shirt.

But, hey, if you like paying $900 for a card, just for the e-peen and richie-boy braggin' rights . . . keep hoping that ATI will fall back to the rut they were in for 2 years due to the AMD+ATI merger. I'd much rather spend $900 on two cards that handle a heavier workload better.

 

[DaJMasta]

What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?

Do you have proof of lying?

I'm convinced if they lied they would be ratted out and suffer severely in the press for it, they're certainly misleading people by cherry picking benchmarks and settings, but I wouldn't say they are lying unless you have some proof.


I think if you consult benchmarks with very similar settings in the same games, you may get similar results. That all being said, they also may be using beta drivers or old nVidia drivers in an effort to make their products look better.... but the 4870 X2 is a solid competitor and I doubt they really need it.

 

[Woody112]

What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?

ATI isn't lying about anything, if you look at the screen resolution you'll see that they are comparing cards at 2560x1600 w/8xAA. We all know that the 295 wins the crown at standard resolution. However this doesn't change the fact that ATI/AMD isn't lying they are just simply not showing the full truth.

 

[eidairaman1]

Well install TF2 at work and play that.

yup then you lose your job which in turn makes you sell your computer because you cant afford to have it.

 

[CDdude55]

yup then you lose your job which in turn makes you sell your computer because you cant afford to have it.

lol, true, well then Quake Live it is.(can quickly x it out or keep it out of view)

 

[Noggrin]

it's somewhat of a first for ATI

Its not like it makes it any better..

keep in mind nVidia has a real bad habit of pulling these kinds of stunts

Really? When? Can you back up that with links or something?

nevermind the fact that nVidia has been re-stickering their low-end and mid-range cards for the last 2 gens.

Again, what this has to do with anything in this topic?

God forbid ATI fight nVidia on their battlefield, right?

Nah, but 'god' should forbid right down lies..

But, hey, if you like paying $900 for a card, just for the e-peen and richie-boy braggin' rights . . . keep hoping that ATI will fall back to the rut they were in for 2 years due to the AMD+ATI merger. I'd much rather spend $900 on two cards that handle a heavier workload better.

Again, what this has to do with anything? Or you just like making things up for no good reason? Yeah, i see u are amd/ati fanboy, i should have known.. what a waste of time..

 

[erocker]

I've already left a warning in this thread. If any of you want infractions take a look at the post above mine.

 

[imperialreign]

Really? When? Can you back up that with links or something?

There is more than enough information abounding the internet in regards to nVidia posting misleading, or grossly disproportionate marketing propoganda that I'm not going to further muddy up this thread worse than it already is.

The fact of the matter, presenting one-sided marketing slides is just general business in the tch industry. nVidia has done it for years, Intel has done it for years, MS and MAC have done it for years - it's only recently that AMD and ATI have done so.

There's no point in getting out the torches and nooses for the red camp over a few "somewhat misleading" marketing slides . . . at the very least they've presented somewhat factual information, from a point of view to help bolster their position in the market . . . I can't find anything at fault for that . . . no one company in their right mind is going to release marketing propaganda and advertisements that try to sell their product from a point of view that makes their product appear to be the worst choice . . . that's a basic rule of marketing and advertising.

Again, I stress the point that although these slides are somewhat misleading - I don't see how ATI is lying to try and continue sale of their products against nVidia's newest release.

Again, what this has to do with anything in this topic?

it has just as much to do about the arguements I was making, as it does to the whole "topic" this thread has delved in to - if you wanted one example of nVidia pulling mis-leading marketing . . . that's my one example right there.

Nah, but 'god' should forbid right down lies..

I have absoultely nothing to say on this :shadedshu

Again, what this has to do with anything? Or you just like making things up for no good reason? Yeah, i see u are amd/ati fanboy, i should have known.. what a waste of time..

it's not making things up - and if you've taken the time to read many of the posts I've made in these forums, I'm not an ATI fanboi . . . a supporter, yes, but there's a difference. Just becuase any one user on this site, or any tech site, has hardware from one specific manufacturer or vendor does not necessarily make them a fanboi. Jumping to such a conclusion is, IMHO, a good sign that someone has no real point to make, and has no ability to back up their arguments or continue a discussion in an adult and civilized manner . . . and that only leads to flamming and infractions.

I'm sure of which I'll probably get one myself after this post . . . but . . .

I've already left a warning in this thread. If any of you want infractions take a look at the post above mine.

. . . sorry, erocker, I had too.


. . . and now I'll take my leave of this thread.

 

[Frizz]

I don't think there's an argument here. Its a marketing plan, the 2 GPU's are both beasts in its own ways and they both have done this before and probably over 50% of other companies as well. Example? Duracell VS Energizer, what? they both compare their longest lasting batteries to the opposing sides' "Standard" batteries, do the math.

Its obvious gtx 295 crumbles at max resolution with AA turned on, AMD isn't just gonna sit there and do nothing about the gtx295 pwning them everywhere else, they are still going to go with a marketing campaign to attract more consumers to their product and maintain sales. If not, they may as well give up on the 4870x2 which obviously ain't gonna happen.

Its all good competition, don't see why you guys are arguing about such childish things and ignore the fact that the once performance crown holder have reduced their prices, meaning more people on a budget are a little closer to getting one of the latest and greatest.

Its win-win for everyone -.- .......

 

[btarunr]

what if I (or any) made this images in my laptop... you know 15 mins of search/copy/paste-google-magic??

have anyone tought of that? i mean everybody is taking sides here... cmon you can't be so naive and think this MUST be legitimate... just saying

They are. You should look at NV's most recent presentation. That will make you proud of your 8 yo's Powerpoint skills.

 

[eidairaman1]

BTA i hope you see what has happened with your topic here bro, what a mess it has become, all within an hour it seems.