Remnant 2: DLSS vs FSR vs XeSS Comparison

[ZoneDymo]

@the54thvoid case in point on the earlier discussion.

This post, selectively quoting and written solely to reply to the personal insult portion of this post, has garnered the most reactions in the entire thread, all unironically liking it. It adds nothing whatsoever to the discussion, and is a net negative to the thread and the forums. I'd report it as low quality/trolling if I thought it might actually achieve that, but I do that pretty often and very few get through, what do you think?

honestly, you all get as upset with this as people did with that dress thing being gold or blue years ago, or that word that people hear differently, who gives a crap?
Why do you care what someone else says looks better....as if that should influence your own opinion of what you like?

Personally I like the sharpened look better, it allows me to distinguish better between objects, but im all for giving users full control of that and not forcing it.
If its so important to people, im also in favor or showing all upscalers with sharpness levels set to equal amounts so we can better compare....

But even then, comparing is pointless specifically because Nvidia made DLSS proprietary, so what does anyone who doesnt own an RTX2000 and up care anyway for that comparison....

and ultimately, I would still check per game what I like best anyway...

just these emotions surrounding a freaking upscaling tech which in a better world we would not even want or have....tis baffling.

 

[champsilva]

If only more people understood this, if I want sharpening, I'll choose that value myself.

I think people are so used to seeing FSR be over sharpened by default they've become conditioned to equate sharpness with detail lol.

As a photo retouching expert, sharpen is something quite hard to master, you need a several layers with different settings to make a striking result.

Ex:

http://imgur.com/XjM0E3W

 

[ZoneDymo]

yall remember that sweet sweet MSAA? because I do.

 

[wolf]

Why do you care what someone else says looks better

It matters because it's a disingenuous way to debate, if you can even call it that. Personal attacks, insults, rudeness, completely off topic nonsense, this behavior is applauded here and it's baffling to me that some people, including mods, not only enable it, but reward it. That's before we even get to inexperienced people claiming to be full bottle. Would you watch a review for a car, where the reviewer just read the specs or watched a review himself? Or would you prefer to seek experienced people or seek the experience yourself... it's easy for me to see which has more value. It's not even about subject XYZ, it's user attitudes and terrible methods of debating here and across the net. The art of having a respectful, articulate conversation, even in disagreement, seems to be a dying art form. I'm in a good position where I'm perfectly able to call attention to it, discuss, debate, and even increasingly be a bit provocative myself (hard to argue with results eh?) then move on. I just call out what I see, when I see it.

yall remember that sweet sweet MSAA? because I do.

Lawd I love me some MSAA, and to a broader extent Super Sampling as an AA / IQ improving method, it's just so damn resource intensive. The choice would be good though, if it doesn't break all or part of the render pipeline, if not only to revisit games in the future and use it, but I suppose VSR/DSR/DLDSR is there for that, it can just take a lot of resolution sometimes to overcome bad TAA.

 

[Chomiq]

When will people realize that forcing a baked in sharpening filter on everything doesn't magically make one upscaling tech better from the rest? If I want to sharpen the output then give me an option to do it. Even as basic as the FSR 2 implementation in Squad has a slider for FSR sharpening intensity.

 

[ZoneDymo]

It matters because it's a disingenuous way to debate, if you can even call it that. Personal attacks, insults, rudeness, completely off topic nonsense, this behavior is applauded here and it's baffling to me that some people, including mods, not only enable it, but reward it. That's before we even get to inexperienced people claiming to be full bottle. Would you watch a review for a car, where the reviewer just read the specs or watched a review himself? Or would you prefer to seek experienced people or seek the experience yourself... it's easy for me to see which has more value. It's not even about subject XYZ, it's user attitudes and terrible methods of debating here and across the net. The art of having a respectful, articulate conversation, even in disagreement, seems to be a dying art form. I'm in a good position where I'm perfectly able to call attention to it, discuss, debate, and even increasingly be a bit provocative myself (hard to argue with results eh?) then move on. I just call out what I see, when I see it.

I like reviews that show me why they have the opinion they have, if the medium allows for that of course, your car example makes it hard because you cant show how a car feels when handling it.
Angry Joe for example in his game reviews shows what annoys him and I as an individual can then choose if I agree or disagree with that and how that affects me personally.

And I see that the same here, if you like one better because the sharpness gives of perceived detail, then....great? go for that, and if you dont like it then..great, dont go for that.
We dont need this debate really, but I guess it is interesting to see what other people appreciate in an image every now and then.

Personal attacks, insults, rudeness etc is exactly what my last sentence was about:
"just these emotions surrounding a freaking upscaling tech which in a better world we would not even want or have....tis baffling."

But to be completely fair, your very first comment on this thread is baiting for some.... reactions so to speak.

When will people realize that forcing a baked in sharpening filter on everything doesn't magically make one upscaling tech better from the rest? If I want to sharpen the output then give me an option to do it. Even as basic as the FSR 2 implementation in Squad has a slider for FSR sharpening intensity.

Well what makes an upscaling tech better then the rest? if its visuals and people like the sharpened look better....well then it does make it better forcing a baked filter.

 

[wolf]

Personal attacks, insults, rudeness etc is exactly what my last sentence was about:
"just these emotions surrounding a freaking upscaling tech which in a better world we would not even want or have....tis baffling."

Perhaps we've misunderstood each other, I have no gripe whatsoever with the reviewer and their content, it's some of the people in the comments that devolved into such terrible behavior.

As for want or have, I mean, I'm actually happy it came along, mostly. It's a double edged sword, as it can mean that games rely on it to get acceptable performance, which stings extra hard when the game visually doesn't really deliver relative to how heavy it is. But in terms of what it's actually achieving? I'm downright impressed, I'm not going to die on the hill of how the magic pixels make it to my screen, if the results are excellent, and as we've seen, perhaps even in excess of Native+TAA while starting with far less pixels, and giving a performance boost at the same time. Another tool in my optimization toolbox if you will. And often the result is so good (or TAA so bad, making it look good), that I prefer it anyway, and the extra frames are always welcome unless I have render budget excess.

 

[AsRock]

All over a 1/2 baked turd of a game.

 

[Scrizz]

I'm just going to put this here.

The difference between sharpness and detail in video​

 

[forman313]

I do not see any shimmering in the clip. Maybe it is related to the panel used? On a well configured QLED, FSR looks clearly best to me. XESS seems to be worst. I hope HDR was not activated in windows. This can mess things up, even if auto HDR is disabled.

Me neither.

Im playing the video in 4k60 with my monitor also running 60Hz. Game mode etc off.

I usually stay out of these discussions since very often, it comes down to personal preferences. Amount of sharpening etc. But I cant help pointing out a couple details I noticed, or didn't notice....

Brick walls look very different in this game. And since there are lots of them, it could be fun if someone with the right knowledge could estimate the difference in rendering power required.

This looks like some algorithm took a peak at the textures and decided to save some time, bandwidth and VRAM by replacing it with a couple smeared out shades of gray. Not a fan of the washed out colors either. Certainly no need to run out for an OLED. Its quite noticeable all this.. fog?

 

[ZoneDymo]

I'm just going to put this here.

The difference between sharpness and detail in video​

This guy is losing his mind because he is so desperately holding on to the idea that visuals and what is good and what isnt, is a fact and not an opinion, objective and not subjective.
I understand though, imagine your job hanging on something so...fleeting, you would want it to be hammered down, so we all agree on what is good and what isnt.

but sad truth is....no....people dont agree on what looks better sooo live with that.


0:46 "but it is ugly" yeah, that is your opinion, which you are entitled to of course, but its not a fact.
"the other thing you are doing is, you are highlighting the noise" yeah ok, which apparently you really dont like...but maybe I dont like a soft image? again....opinions.
And later on he adds a bit of sharpness anyway....because he thinks it looks better....which again is fine but how does he not see the hypocrisy lol


but fine, its not more detailed, it just LOOKS more detailed, more perceived detail.....are we all ok now?

 

[dir_d]

Me neither.

Im playing the video in 4k60 with my monitor also running 60Hz. Game mode etc off.

I usually stay out of these discussions since very often, it comes down to personal preferences. Amount of sharpening etc. But I cant help pointing out a couple details I noticed, or didn't notice....

View attachment 306612

Brick walls look very different in this game. And since there are lots of them, it could be fun if someone with the right knowledge could estimate the difference in rendering power required.

View attachment 306613

This looks like some algorithm took a peak at the textures and decided to save some time, bandwidth and VRAM by replacing it with a couple smeared out shades of gray. Not a fan of the washed out colors either. Certainly no need to run out for an OLED. Its quite noticeable all this.. fog?

Which is upscalers are used in the wall picture you took.

 

[ZoneDymo]

Which is upscalers are used in the wall picture you took.

you can see it in the image above, where its not focussed/zoomed in, the left image is either DLSS or XeSS and the right is FSR2.2

 

[nguyen]

Man FSR.Quality look completely wash out next to DLSS.Performance (with a touch of Sharpen+ filter) to me

 

[tomcug]

What do you mean by "washed out"? Dynamic weather clearly is at play there.

 

[wolf]

Man FSR.Quality look completely wash out next to DLSS.Performance (with a touch of Sharpen+ filter) to me

10% lower power consumption, 35% more performance, the power of sharpening actually done right, for all of the extra 60 seconds it took to set up.

Care to test XESS and inject sharpening too? If you can replicate anywhere close to these results, yikes. FSR is in trouble.

 

[nguyen]

10% lower power consumption, 35% more performance, the power of sharpening actually done right, for all of the extra 60 seconds it took to set up.

Care to test XESS and inject sharpening too? If you can replicate anywhere close to these results, yikes. FSR is in trouble.

XeSS Performance with Sharpen+ put FSR.Quality mode to shame really

Daniel Owens said in this GPU news that he think XeSS 1.1 look much better than FSR2 in Remnant2 and Ratchet&Clanks (on his Steam Deck no less), so Radeon owners should put out their blind brand loyalty and use XeSS instead .
And yeah everyone should be against AMD blocking XeSS in games from now on

 

[ZoneDymo]

its a good thing you 2 have eachother at least