Report: Intel Could Spin Out Foundry Business or Cancel Some Expansion Plans to Control Losses

[las]

This will not happen. You really have to think about it. At best, AMD would be paying Intel to improve Intel products and put AMD out of business. At worst, Intel will sabotage AMD chip production and put AMD out of business. Intel’s past suggest they will do both and everything in between. Entertaining anything less malevolent is just brand loyalty.

Thats the life of being fabless

AMD relies 100% on TSMC for now

AMD consider Samsung tho

I guess TSMC milks them too hard, so hard that AMD can't afford to use 3nm but had to settle with 4nm aka 5nm for a brand new ground up CPU design

Can't wait to see Zen 5 (optimized 5nm aka 4nm) vs Arrow Lake (true next gen 3nm)

If Intel fail, no problem, I will grab a 9800X3D ASAP

If Intel don't fail, I will be using a 285K in less than 2 months - just in time for RTX 5090 release

 

[Daven]

Thats the life of being fabless

AMD relies 100% on TSMC for now

AMD consider Samsung tho

I guess TSMC milks them too hard, so hard that AMD can't afford to use 3nm but had to settle with 4nm aka 5nm for a brand new ground up CPU design

Can't wait to see Zen 5 (optimized 5nm aka 4nm) vs Arrow Lake (true next gen 3nm)

The tech ‘industry’ relies on many fab only companies: Glofo, UMC, SIMC, TSMC, Samsung, etc.

If the industry is lucky, IFS will soon split from Intel and join them.

 

[las]

The tech ‘industry’ relies on many fab only companies: Glofo, UMC, SIMC, TSMC, Samsung, etc.

If the industry is lucky, IFS will soon split from Intel and join them.

How well did Ryzen do before TSMC tho?

Without node advantage, AMD never done well

And AMD is losing that now.

 

[ThomasK]

TSMC must be laughing to the bank, manufacturing Lunar Lake on its fabs.

 

[Jism]

AMD relies 100% on TSMC for now

AMD consider Samsung tho

I guess TSMC milks them too hard, so hard that AMD can't afford to use 3nm but had to settle with 4nm aka 5nm for a brand new ground up CPU design

They are considering other options because TSMC is filled, meaning AMD cant get enough chips out.

Has nothing todo with your fanboyism thinking TSMC is charging too much out of some sort of friends politics.

 

[Wirko]

Cancel Some Expansion Plans to Control Losses​

That's how you control your future revenue too.

 

[las]

They are considering other options because TSMC is filled, meaning AMD cant get enough chips out.

Has nothing todo with your fanboyism thinking TSMC is charging too much out of some sort of friends politics.

TSMC is filled because companies with more money exist, life of being fabless, sadly AMD has no other options because they need node-advantage to beat Intel

Sadly for AMD Intel uses 3nm TSMC in a few months, Arrow Lake incoming

And in 2025, Intel 18A is running at full power

I hope AMD prepares for price cuts across the board, Ryzen 9000 already cheaper than 7000 on launch, tough times incoming for AMD

 

[ThomasK]

TSMC is filled because companies with more money exist, life of being fabless, sadly AMD has no other options because they need node-advantage to beat Intel

Okay, now stow your kool aid jar away, please.

 

[Jism]

Yeah well GlobalFoundries threw in the towel in regards of ever expanding costs in regards of going smaller. TSMC is currently expanding in various countries all over the world, spawning up fabs to be able to increase production even further. AMD is well settled in this regard and there's nothing Intel currently has that would beat the current offerings in price / performance and even on a enterprise level.

AMD's move to both Ryzen and (C/R)DNA was excellent.

 

[las]

Yeah well GlobalFoundries threw in the towel in regards of ever expanding costs in regards of going smaller. TSMC is currently expanding in various countries all over the world, spawning up fabs to be able to increase production even further. AMD is well settled in this regard and there's nothing Intel currently has that would beat the current offerings in price / performance and even on a enterprise level.

AMD's move to both Ryzen and (C/R)DNA was excellent.

Take a look at non-Asia TSMC fabs, mostly dated nodes, like 12-16-28nm

Okay, now stow your kool aid jar away, please.

Are you denying that AMD loses node advantage when Arrow Lake hits using 3nm TSMC?

 

[Jism]

That's Ok. There are more fabless designers who don't need cutting high end chip tech.

 

[ThomasK]

Are you denying that AMD loses node advantage when Arrow Lake hits using 3nm TSMC?

I never said that, you did.

Who do you think is ASML's prime customer? Not Intel. It must be regretting to ignore EUV/DUV for so long.

AMD made a comeback with Ryzen using 14nm from GloFo, while Intel had a more than mature 14nm(+++++++++).

Access to more advanced nodes isn't everything. Silicon design engineering plays a big role.

So please, use reasonable arguments.

 

[Jism]

from 5, 4 to 3nm, is not going to cut huge numbers as 14nm to 5, 4nm would.

It's nothing special, other then you have a tidy bit of more space to pack transistors, and from a performance standpoint compared to a older gen, have either less power at the same clocks, or have higher clocks at the same power.

Best example was RX480 vs RX580 - a 14nm vs 12nm, where the 12nm would offer either lower power at same clocks, or higher frequencies due to the additional headroom. AMD picked higher frequencies from the stock 1200Mhz to 1333Mhz but without the faster ram or memory bandwidth, scalability would be terrible.

The whole I/O die is made on a older node (14nm if i'm correct) - actually clever and saves costs.

 

[Onasi]

@Jism
You are mixing apple and oranges. 5 to 4 is not a big jump because it’s literally the same node, just optimized. Same with your 14 to 12 example - it’s the same node. And no, 480 and 580 used the exact same chip. The shrink was with the 590.

N3, on the other hand, is a fully new smaller node. It’s a significant advancement. The elephant in the room, of course, is how exactly Intel 3nm is going to compare to TSMC 3nm. The whole nomenclature has become kinda pointless, really, since it’s just a vaguely broad denomination.

 

[Jism]

Oops, my bad. I indeed intended to mention the 590 vs 480, they are the same, just a different node and due to the smaller aspect having higher clocks (1200Mhz vs 1333Mhz).

 

[las]

I never said that, you did.

Who do you think is ASML's prime customer? Not Intel. It must be regretting to ignore EUV/DUV for so long.

AMD made a comeback with Ryzen using 14nm from GloFo, while Intel had a more than mature 14nm(+++++++++).

Access to more advanced nodes isn't everything. Silicon design engineering plays a big role.

So please, use reasonable arguments.

Ryzen 1000 and 2000 sucked, especially for gaming, 7/5nm TSMC is the reason Ryzen became good

Intel has been competing just fine, using worse nodes for years now, imagine when they get node-advantage again, which is very soon

 

[R-T-B]

The whole I/O die is made on a older node (14nm if i'm correct) - actually clever and saves costs.

Not since AM4.

 

[Jism]

Ryzen 1000 and 2000 sucked, especially for gaming, 7/5nm TSMC is the reason Ryzen became good

Intel has been competing just fine, using worse nodes for years now, imagine when they get node-advantage again, which is very soon

Yep; all rain will fall on AMD and can close doors due to your prophecy here.

I'm out of this thread.

 

[Eternit]

This will not happen. You really have to think about it. At best, AMD would be paying Intel to improve Intel products and put AMD out of business. At worst, Intel will sabotage AMD chip production and put AMD out of business. Intel’s past suggest they will do both and everything in between. Entertaining anything less malevolent is just wishful thinking based on brand loyalty.

Intel is paying to TSMC to improve TSMC foundries and put Intel out of business. I wouldn’t be surprised if TSMC is sabotaging to get Intel out of business. For them fabless customers are better than Intel.

 

[Daven]

Not since AM4.

Yep. Zen 4 and Zen 5 use TSMC 6 nm for the IOD.

 

[R-T-B]

Ryzen 1000 and 2000 sucked, especially for gaming

Not really, but ok. I had one. Hardly sucked.

 

[Onasi]

I think people here in this thread, as is customary on TPU, are getting very hung up on CPU “gaming performance” and judge entire generations based on that. I know this might come as a shock, but that’s probably a metric that’s on the very bottom of AMDs list and probably so for Intel too. Zen and all its advantages were never aimed at gamers. It’s a server/datacenter architecture first. Everything else is secondary. Even the Zen 5 changes are firmly pointed at that market. And it’s working, we see it with AMDs steadily rising enterprise market share. Compared to that, whether or not Joe the l33t gamur can get a dozen more frames in his AAA slop of choice is completely irrelevant.

 

[Eternit]

Not really, but ok. I had one. Hardly sucked.

They had good multithread performance, but not single thread.

 

[LittleBro]

With Intel you can get both good gaming perf and good application perf in the same chip. You don't have to choose one over the other. Downside is power usage, however, not in gaming. 14700K uses like 100 watts on average in gaming.

14700K uses 116W in gaming on average, whereas for example 7800X3D consumes 46W.

Multi-threaded app performance is in favor of Intel thanks to raising amount of e-cores.
14700K (8P+12E) wins in applications over 13700K (8P+8E) by around 5%. That may not be much but it's thanks to +4 e-cores and very slightly increased clocks.
14700K stands somewhere between 7900X and 9900X in app performance. 12 regular cores with HT vs. 8 regular + HT + 12 e-cores.
AMD has no real hybrid architecture in desktop - something like Ryzen AI 300 series but with 8 Zen-P cores and 8/12 Zen-c cores. I'd like to see how that that would match 8P+12E from Intel.

3nm TSMC will fix Intels power consumption issues, their performance have been fine even with AMD having node advantage. Lets see what Intel can do with node-advantage.

Intel has in their presentetation that 3nm will bring them 18% improvement in perf/watt ratio. That's not enough for them to get on par with efficiency of Zen 5 CPUs.
Hopefully their own presentation is wrong and the perf/watt ratio will improve much further. We need competition.

Arrow Lake and eventually 18A is going to be the turning point for Intel. AMD lost node advantage, and Zen 5 somewhat failed - However 9800X3D might take the gaming crown anyway, due to being unlocked for OC and running higher clocks in general. 3D cache is less fragile this time.

Their Arrow Lake was supposed to be on their own Intel 20A process, yet it will be made (along with Lunar Lake) by TSMC on 3nm.
As for their 18A, I'll believe when I see it. Intel stated that first fully functioning chips fully made on 18A will arrive in 1st half of 2025 and will be in shops shortly after. Let's see.

 

[Daven]

Intel is paying to TSMC to improve TSMC foundries and put Intel out of business. I wouldn’t be surprised if TSMC is sabotaging to get Intel out of business. For them fabless customers are better than Intel.

There's definitely a huge potential for shenanigans across the market here.