Riot Games Gaffe Results in Sexism Allegations at Pax West 2018

[GorbazTheDragon]

@DeathtoGnomes I guess you have 0 experience surrounding the league community... Riot has a history of insanely hypocritical employees and this is just a continuing trend of their unprofessional, unproductive work environment. The game itself has degraded in quality significantly in the last 2 years, the state of the pro scene has also degraded a lot, many of these issues began and were brought to the surface years ago, those who pointed out the problems and wanted them fixed were literally gunned down by riot and the community was at best divided. At this point all of the internal problems have reached a breaking point.

I definitely agree the league community is toxic, however the riot still managed to one up both r/lol and themselves with this one.

Here are some more posts for your enjoyment:

Some internal messages:

 

[Totally]

You have an incredible aptitude for arguing against yourself.

First off, if nobody cares about people's race or gender, how come everyone but straight white men are dramatically underrepresented in the industry?

Ignoring the copius amounts of ignorance and bullshit in that statement, and lets pretend the "industry" only exists in the western hemisphere and western europe, the reason probably is the gross percentage of people applying themselves to get to the level to compete at those levels are straight white men.

They're just saying they also want the opportunity to enjoy things. Why don't they have that right? What does it take away from you if they gain access here?

Let me explain this in terms cake. If the only cakes available are Vanila, or Chocolate and someone doesn't enjoy them because they prefer some purple whatever, nondescript-flavored cake, that person has no right to complain or protest they can go bake their own cake. But ofc ppl choose to complain because that is much easier than working toward actual constructive change.

 

[Liquid Cool]

I think after reading this thread...I'm going to take a break for a few months.

This world has gotten very angry and ugly. Frankly...I'd prefer to not be a part of it.

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool

 

[Upgrayedd]

As a fellow heli, I was deeply saddened there was no alloted time for us AH-64 Apaches.

 

[Arjai]

Well, Twitter. Awesome that these people have such a wonderful way to communicate. Sad, that these feelings can't be addressed, without twitter. Wouldn't it be nice, if people could argue a point without being so fucking Angry?

Everywhere I go, people are yelling at each other, or into their phones. This country is the worst kind of dysfunctional, groups of people are not fun, because there is too much hate brewing in our lives. Our government seems to relish the divisiveness, from the President on down. There is no Reason left in this country. If there is, it is hiding from my sight!

 

[MrGenius]

Actually, no. The point is pointing out bias and how people are treated differently due to factors entirely out of their control.

You can't be the victim if you're not being treated with bias. Whether real, or merely perceived. Or if whatever you're being victimized for is in your control. So, of course it isn't. Because then the blame gets placed on you. And you're perfect. Totally flawless. Completely blameless. So there's absolutely nothing that needs to change about you. Ever. The entire world needs to change instead.

Yeeeaaahhhh...good luck with that! Narcissist much?

….because... you had the wrong hair color?

Green hair, blue hair, red hair, purple hair, long hair, short hair, no hair...all are my choice. But no need to explain what you really meant by that. I get it. People are "born with" whatever they're "born with". And because they were "born with" it, they don't/shouldn't have to do anything about it. The world should change instead.

Again...good luck with that! If it's them, it's them, it's them...then really...truthfully...in all factuality...IT'S YOU!!!

Just because you haven't lived through systematic discrimination doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You don't know what I have, or haven't, lived through. I happen to be a professional scapegoat. Systematic discrimination is what I do for a living. Well...I wouldn't exactly call it a "living". But as long as I'm still "alive"...I guess you could call it that.

People need to blame all their faults on someone. And that someone can't possibly be themselves. So they find the person whose fault it is the least...and blame them instead. It's a perfect world I tell ya! Gettin' better every day!!!

"Non-binary?" What the hell does that even mean?

Not a clue. Had to google it. Still not a clue...

 

[Caring1]

I think after reading this thread...I'm going to take a break for a few months.

This world has gotten very angry and ugly. Frankly...I'd prefer to not be a part of it.

Best Regards,

Liquid Cool

The world hasn't changed, only your view of it.
Welcome to reality.
Reverse sexism will always exist as long as they claim sexism does.
Want a men only gym, won't happen, but try to join a women only gym, that will never happen either.

 

[Rockarola]

Well, I'm taking a long break from TPU...clickbait, inflammatory "news" post and a lot less hardware.
I've gotten to the point where I check the site out of habit, not out of desire and I've had enough...hardOCP, Tom's Hardware and the rest might lack a bit, but at least they are not provoking political discussions under the guise of "news"

 

[hat]

provoking political discussions under the guise of "news"

Heh, I'm rarely critical of the site, but I'm kinda thinking the same here. This article in particular is a sure-fire invitation for "political discussions", to put it lighty...

 

[Basard]

I find it funny how expressing opinions is generally not allowed--unless you're a minority. Also, expressing facts is extremely not allowed--no matter what.

 

[VSG]

Heh, I'm rarely critical of the site, but I'm kinda thinking the same here. This article in particular is a sure-fire invitation for "political discussions", to put it lighty...

It is news that has been important enough to merit coverage one way or the other, and I figured the best way to do so would be to make a brief post presenting the status of things as they are to encourage an open discussion how there are more and more instances of the gaming industry reps not finding a good way to separate professional and personal believes, which in turn affects games and customers alike. Perhaps it was too optimistic, however, so I can see your point. Please do report posts you feel have crossed the line.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Not a clue. Had to google it. Still not a clue...

I think non-binary means non-conformist but non-conformist in regards to what? I looked back at the text as originally quoted and it really gives no clues other than appearing in close proximity to "women." If we assume binary would mean men or women, non-binary would basically be the LGBT group of non-conformists. They could have just said LGBT but I suspect they attempted to disguise intent hence "non-binary."

Looking at this picture again, they don't even hide the fact that the above analysis is correct. Instead of saying "no men allowed" (because that's too blatant, I guess?) they said "women and LGBT non-binary allowed." They pretend like not being sexist starting at "2:30 P.M." is okay...

Has Riot Games officially commented on it? I expect a "mistakes were made and they will not happen again" type of response from corporate.

 

[hat]

It is news that has been important enough to merit coverage one way or the other, and I figured the best way to do so would be to make a brief post presenting the status of things as they are to encourage an open discussion how there are more and more instances of the gaming industry reps not finding a good way to separate professional and personal believes, which in turn affects games and customers alike. Perhaps it was too optimistic, however, so I can see your point. Please do report posts you feel have crossed the line.

I see your point. This sort of thing is an existing issue in the gaming community, for better or worse. Unfortunately, it's a powder keg, and everybody is far too easily offended these days... fortunately I'm not one of them (who is easily offended).

I think non-binary means non-conformist but non-conformist in regards to what? I looked back at the text as originally quoted and it really gives no clues other than appearing in close proximity to "women." If we assume binary would mean men or women, non-binary would basically be the LGBT group of non-conformists. They could have just said LGBT but I suspect they attempted to disguise intent hence "non-binary."

I have no idea. Those groups seem to go through terminology like they go through underwear. I'm all for everybody's rights to do/be/feel whatever they want (so long as it doesn't step on someone else's, of course) but I don't even know what half of these words mean anymore.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

This sort of thing is an existing issue in the gaming community, for better or worse.

Not really, no. Volumes can and have been written about this and it more or less mirrors the aftermath of GamerGate. Not going to go through all that again but what is important to mention is that GamerGate started as a genuine ethics in journalism issue. Here, I don't know that there is a genuine issue because it really only boils down to this: "Are clubs allowed at PAX West? Yes/No" If yes, then this is getting a crapload of coverage that it doesn't deserve. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a club for wizards at PAX West too. To each their own. If no then Riot Games might get blacklisted as per #5 "Don't Harrass Anyone" policy. The entire PAX event is all inclusive "safe space" for everyone. Pretty sure PAX doesn't approve of the "no men allowed" policy that Riot Games enforced for their specific event.

 

[HTC]

In 2016, there was this German MP that was fined because he addressed the parliament with "Ladies and Gentlemen". He "fixed" this in the very next address, which you can hear for yourself (in German, with subtitles):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8LIHZDfmFM

While the video above is totally unrelated to technology, the issue here is the lengths people go to try and accommodate everyone when a simple "to everyone" would be enough.

EDIT

Apparently, i remembered wrong and the reason for the speech in the video was not the one i thought. It was in fact a "reply" to a proposed bill for gender diversity, and what a "reply" it was, lol.

 

[hat]

Not really, no. Volumes can and have been written about this and it more or less mirrors the aftermath of GamerGate. Not going to go through all that again but what is important to mention is that GamerGate started as a genuine ethics in journalism issue. Here, I don't know that there is a genuine issue because it really only boils down to this: "Are clubs allowed at PAX West? Yes/No" If yes, then this is getting a crapload of coverage that it doesn't deserve. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a club for wizards at PAX West too. To each their own. If no then Riot Games might get blacklisted as per #5 "Don't Harrass Anyone" policy. The entire PAX event is all inclusive "safe space" for everyone. Pretty sure PAX doesn't approve of the "no men allowed" policy that Riot Games enforced for their specific event.

Well, by that I meant how all these different groups don't feel included, so game devs try to make them feel included. There's plenty of controversy surrounding Battlefield 5 because of that.

 

[Frick]

Whoever brought this diversity garbage into gaming industry should be hanged by the balls assuming they even have them. No one cares if you're a minority black transgender lesbian with one leg and dyslexia, that literally never was the point of gaming which used to be reserved for the dirty nerds coz it was too childish, but now everyone wants to have a pie of it coz its so fun. I also don't understand why they are obsessed with this notion that characters in games need to be a reflection of our real selves (that pushing for all inclusive disabled transgender female minority protagonists). Someone who has no legs probably appreciates that players in FIFA have a pair of healthy legs so they can run around because they can't in real life. And same goes for this "women and minority only" workshops. You can be dyslexic or missing both legs, but you maybe excel at composing music or doing texture designs. You don't need bloody special workshops. Studio will see your talent past your whatever disability if you prove yourself. And legs aren't mandatory for doing great music or textures or models...

This is ... just unreal, on so many levels.

 

[Prima.Vera]

Another proof that America (U.S.A for the rest of the world) it's the Nr.1 most racist and sexist country from all so called 1st and 2nd World Countries.
The retarded idiots promoting "political correctness" are doing more harm than good by involuntary discriminating the races, sexes or sexual orientation.
People never learn I guess...

 

[RejZoR]

This is ... just unreal, on so many levels.

None of it is "unreal" because this garbage actually exists and there are people who demand all of this shit.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Another proof that America (U.S.A for the rest of the world) it's the Nr.1 most racist and sexist country from all so called 1st and 2nd World Countries.
The retarded idiots promoting "political correctness" are doing more harm than good by involuntary discriminating the races, sexes or sexual orientation.
People never learn I guess...

I think it's actually symptomatic of not having a greater, unifying enemy (terrorists, commies, Nazis, slavers, European monarchs, etc.). Deprived of something to focus their attention, people focus on what is closer to home. The tribe isn't the whole of a nation any more with clearly defined goals, it's political parties, sports teams, gender identity, religion, etc.

When your house is on fire, you tend to not care that there is also an ant infestation of the house. The house really hasn't burned since the fall of the Soviet Union so now we're chasing after ants and everyone is angry because they reproduce faster than they can be squished. If there was an alien invasion, global food shortage, or <insert something else here>, no one would care about minor tribalism strife. The elephant in the room always gets the attention.


For the record, you're factually wrong. USA is 85th in terms of ethnic diversity and 66% of 15-64 females are working versus 77% of 15-64 males. More or less average in both cases. Thing is, virtually everyone in the USA 12 and older has access to a smartphone, Twitter, and Facebook. Anyone can make a lot of noise about nothing--and this is spreading thanks to the rapid modernization of third world countries. Tribalism will get much worse and may never actually get better. It's in our genes as a survival instinct.

Racism and discrimination are wrong as a matter of principle, not of science.

…

From our earliest years we want to belong to a group, conform to its rules and punish those who violate them. Later, our instincts prompt us to make moral judgments and to defend our group, even at the sacrifice of one’s own life.

 

[RejZoR]

You have an incredible aptitude for arguing against yourself.

First off, if nobody cares about people's race or gender, how come everyone but straight white men are dramatically underrepresented in the industry?
Secondly, if games aren't supposed to represent reality, but some fantasy, why does that fantasy have to be dominated by white-looking characters, straight characters, binary-gendered characters and male characters? Last I looked, protagonists in AAA games were >90% male, and the vast majority of those were white. Practically none were openly non-heterosexual. Which is wildly different than the demographic makeup of "gamers", which is (and has always been) a very diverse group.
Thirdly, "whoever brought this diversity garbage" there? It's always been there. Women have been making games as long as games have been around. As have people of color and a vast swath of other minorities.
Fourth, "used to be reserved for the dirty nerds coz it was too childish, but now everyone wants to have a pie"? Wtf? Are you in kindergarten, and is someone stealing your toys? Last I checked, nobody was telling you what to play or how to enjoy it. They're just saying they also want the opportunity to enjoy things. Why don't they have that right? What does it take away from you if they gain access here? Honestly, you just come off as selfish and scared of change.
As for the "you don't need special treatment, this is a meritocracy" argument, that's been proven to be false time and time again. Hiring bias is real. Performance evaluation bias is real. White, straight men are systematically given preferential treatment in a large number of ways in this industry. Does this need to change? Obviously, unless you're actively advocating that we are somehow "better". If so, please bring some data to back up your ridiculous and offensive claims.


As for this situation, it just comes off as miscommunication and bad heaping on top of bad. The initiative seems good, and limiting attendance to underrepresented groups is a good idea, given that white, straight men have many advantages to begin with. This is leveling the playing field, not giving preferential treatment. But of course, to people blind to their own privilege, this is impossible to understand.

Arguing against myself. And then you go and literally go and argue against yourself...

a) There are tons of highly iconic female characters in games and movies, but as we all know it, you all conveniently insist on ignoring them to fit your narrative.

b) Who gives a shit if they are openly gay non binary hermaphrodites, just imagine it yourself that they are. How the hell I played through Alien:Isolation imagining I'm Amanda Ripley. While being a dude. Mind blowing, right?

c) 90% of characters used to be male white characters because that was the largest audience in the beginning and because of technical limitations. If you look games from the past, literally all enemies were male and they looked exactly like the protagonist himself. Guess what, technology. They couldn't afford to make 50 different models and paint them with 50 different textures each. It's also ironic when diversity folks want more female characters as NPC's and then cry misogyny when you shoot them. But are fine when we mow down thousands of male characters. It's just so ironic and funny it makes me roll on the ground and laugh like a madman.

d) "used to be reserved for the dirty nerds coz it was too childish, but now everyone wants to have a pie" And here is the usual case of people yet again not understanding the context of words where I literally called myself " dirty nerd"... No one is stealing my toys, I was stating that gaming was considered as something negative in the past and quite frankly, in my country still is. If you say you're a gamer in your 30's they'll consider you childish. And that wasn't any different when I was 15 or 20... We just had our hobby and we had fun in it not really giving two fucks about anything other than having fun and doing crazy shit. And now the Diversity Squad arrived and wants their BS shoved in with full force. That was the statement I made. But you just proved me right by arguing with yourself and stating like someone is stealing my toys. It's not "stealing my games" as much as it's "ruining the games" diversity garbage is screwing up the games because people who demand diversity have no concept of designing games. They just shove in some gay shit totally out of context and call it a day. Like in Mass Effect Andromeda where character first introduces itself and then in the same sentence states it's gay. Do you ever introduce yourself to someone with first sentence about your sexual orientation? Give me a break. And that's just the most obvious example. They are just obsessed with shoving their diversity nonsense in for the sake of having it in. God forbid someone would actually take great care to craft a complex story that potentially includes that. No, just throw it in there flat on the face. Only thing selfish is expecting quality from games and they are trading it for diversity points. A checklist of what all skin colors, sexual orientations and 700 trillion genders they can tick off.

e) The hiring bias has come so far that companies now hire women for the sake of diversity and diversity quotas even if they had a far more qualified man applying for the position as well. Yay, great win for diversity, hiring people because vagina! Also, lets just entirely dismiss the fact that more men apply for mathematics and programming and as a result, more men will end up working in such positions. I just love it how no one ever demands 50% diversity quotas by filling in positions with women and non-binary snowflakes in the ranks of garbage collectors, sewer maintenance, electrical engineers working on high voltage power lines, dep earth miners, oil rig workers and construction site workers. Oh, but that's just inconvenient because they are all nasty dirty jobs and men can do them and no one gives a damn about diversity, but we'll save the nice clean air conditioned jobs for the womynz because yay, diversity everyone! It makes me vomit.

 

[Arjai]

The elephant in the room, does not solve anything. It may unite due to survival but, it doesn't solve the underlying need to blame somebody for the Elephant being there. If anything, we should be uniting together to eliminate the elephants, so to speak. Rather than reacting to them and being forced to deal with it!!

People need to realize that we have WAY MORE in common than we don't! Start giving a shit by listening to your neighbor, guy on the street, whomever. Show empathy, join a cause, do something other than sitting around and bitching about so and so did this.

Be pro-active. Not Re-active. Best advice I have.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I would caution that those being disruptive about relatively minor things are being proactive. Proactivity isn't necessarily a force for the common good. Proactivity counters laziness, idleness, and indecision.

The best tool against tribalism is logic (why did the tribes form?) and management (what are the priorities?). Case in point: tribes would form over what to do with elephants in a room (e.g. slaughter or befriend). Logic begs the question why are they inside in the first place when they belong in the wilderness. Management suggests the efforts of the tribes should be focused on relocating the elephants to the wilderness where the needs of all parties are fulfilled satisfactorily.

This Riot Games/PAX/social media thing is yet another case of politically correct outrage that isn't worth anyone's time. It's another textbook example of tribalism gone too far.

 

[Arjai]

You misunderstood. Being Proactive is the elimination of Reactive. Disruption is caused by reaction. Being Proactive means being prepared, means squarely meeting one's self and correcting one's flaws. Mentally being present and accounted for, not reactionary. Things don't happen to proactive people. Things always happen to reactive people.

It's a tough road, but anyone one can do it. When you are no longer a victim, you can actually help others.

The whole story, Pax/RIOT, is about "Reaction". Any self aware human would not have had an issue with what the "Rita's" wanted to do. It was not a news article until someone felt victimized, wrongly, and made a fuss.

 

[RCoon]

Classic Riot. They are the dude-bro of the gaming development world, all chest bumping and energy drink chugging. Then when their flaws are pointed out they over correct and end up arse over tit like this. I assume this all happened because a number of female employees came out and said it was a fairly awful place to work for women (that I can believe after seeing various comments by their director's and owners). Now they're desperate to change face and hoping to bring more female and non-binary employees, and their solution was this bizarre overcomplicated and clearly unprepared session.

Was it so hard to just say "hey, this room between these times is for female/non-b Riot employees and female/non-b hopefuls to get together and discuss job prospects and look over resumes."

Then once the reddit and 4chan man-childs thrashed and foamed at the mouth at two whole hours of allotted time, they could swiftly be ignored by everyone and no problems would be had. Issue is all those hormonal teenagers think they hold the power over these companies and can get what they want, since historically, various spineless people in high management have listened to and done their bidding.

As for the analogies of "we have no male only X", well yes, we do. In my local area we have 3 male only gyms and 2 female only gyms. You know why we have 2 female only gyms? Because men are cantankerous morons and think their local gym is tinder. Is it so difficult for us dudes to understand that sometimes people want just a wee bit of time away from us?