Ryzen 7950X on air..?

[Macro Device]

How about you give us a list of what you have to pick from instead of having us name stars?

ID-Cooling:
• SE-207-XT
• SE-226-XT
• FROZN A610 ARGB
• FROZN A620 ARGB

DeepCool:
• AK620
• AG620 Digital
• ASSASIN 4S

Thermaltake:
• ASTRIA 600 ARGB Lighting

Thermalright:
• ARO-M14O
• Macho MAXX

 

[Harlow]

No, I'm asking if air cooling can allow unleashing the CPU's potential. Like, if we lose more than 5 percent speed because of throttling then it's a cancer idea.

I'm running a Noctua NH-D15 (Mark 1 twin fan) on my 7950X but I freely admit a 360mm or 420mm AIO would probably extract another 5% extra performance. You could read a few reviews where they compare "big air" wi
th big AIO on the 7950X.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-cooling-requirements-thermal-throttling/

If you want a big air cooler available in Russia, consider this one at 14,322 Roubles (the claimed cooling capacity of 270W should be enough to cope with an overclocked 7950X).
https://ru.microless.com/en/product...re-applied-thermal-paste-black-ct-9010011-ww/

Air coolers in Russia seem to be much cheaper than the triple fan 360mm AIOs on this web site, e,g. this AIO is "only" 19,729 Roubles
https://ru.microless.com/en/product...m4-lga1700-1851-1200-black-mlx-d36m-a25pz-r1/

This more expensive AIO is 36,455 Rubles:
https://ru.microless.com/en/product...peed-fluid-dynamic-bearing-black-rl-kr36e-b2/

Ive never used a PC where the cpu sits at 90C for hours on end.

I've run long video renders lasting up to 36 hours. My 7950X (no PBO, no XMP) dissipates up to 180W (typically 120W to 150W) and the GPU RTX 3060 12GB dissipates up to 170W (typically 160W) during the render. CPU temperatures range from mid 70's to low 90's Centigrade, depending on which AI algorithm I use. The 7950X only bounces off the 95C red line during benchmark stress tests.

Noctua coolers are embarrassingly expensive where I live. Budget models are sold for what can buy you a premium device from most other vendors.

I quite happily use cheaper Thermal Right Peerless Assassin 120 and 140 dual-tower dual-fan coolers in other builds. It's only for premium builds I spend extra on Noctua. Some modern air coolers beat the NH-D15 Mark 2 by a small margin.

I've never tried an AIO but I would not consider a 240mm on a 7950X. A good 360mm or even a 420mmAIO would be a better choice, if you want to extract the last ounce of performance.

 

[Macro Device]

a 360mm or 420mm AIO would probably extract another 5% extra performance

These are expensive and there's no way we fit a 420 into this lad's case and spending on a new one won't come in handy whatsoever.

should be enough to cope with an overclocked 7950X).

No one will seriously overclock it. Most likely PBO with some negative offset and some thermal limit.

What about coolers I posted above? I reckon they might provide 1 to 3 percent worse performance overall (compared to your Noctua NH-D15) but I might be off. If I'm not off then I'm buying the best one amongst them and liquid cooling waits for a build that explicitly needs it.

 

[Cynelit]

ID-Cooling:
• SE-207-XT
• SE-226-XT
• FROZN A610 ARGB
• FROZN A620 ARGB

DeepCool:
• AK620
• AG620 Digital
• ASSASIN 4S

Thermaltake:
• ASTRIA 600 ARGB Lighting

Thermalright:
• ARO-M14O
• Macho MAXX

If you really cannot get your hands on Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE or EVO then the obvious choice here is DeepCool AK620. It has very similar performance at very similar sound too.

 

[Macro Device]

If you really cannot get your hands on Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE or EVO

I can but I don't like the store. Also can get it 2nd hand... So I pick whatever's best price to warranty I guess.

 

[AleXXX666]

But why air, I understand a custom loop will be far more expensive but an Artic Liquid Freezer II 360 is not that much more expensive that a good air cooler, is there a specific reason you don't want AIOs ?

mounting, for example. Need BIG *overpriced* case too, for lotta space and bells and whistles for all that stuff "management" inside.

ID-Cooling:
• SE-207-XT
• SE-226-XT
• FROZN A610 ARGB
• FROZN A620 ARGB

DeepCool:
• AK620
• AG620 Digital
• ASSASIN 4S

Thermaltake:
• ASTRIA 600 ARGB Lighting

Thermalright:
• ARO-M14O
• Macho MAXX

Thermalright:
• Macho MAXX - this name is very "LOVED" in Russia so I'd suggest it. As I haven't used any Thermalright product I can't just blindly "trust" "youtubers" and say "superb".

Deepcool AG and AK series are SAME stuff just AG are tad more cheaper because of not so "premium" "design" although it's very taste question and I like AG series design way more. But, Assasin is also well-"loved" name but it looks a bit "stronger" for performance too, that's shy I haven't recommended AG/AK620, but, I have AG620 for Ryzen 7500F with just one fan and it's pretty good cooler, but, I SUGGEST "premium" products still suit you usecase better, because I have made builds with Noctua D14 and have had BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 4.

 

[Harlow]

No, I'm asking if air cooling can allow unleashing the CPU's potential. Like, if we lose more than 5 percent speed because of throttling then it's a cancer idea.

If you've decided against a 360mm AIO due to lack of space inside your client's computer case and you don't buy a true, top-of-the-range air cooler (from the performance aspect), you should be prepared for a course or two of chemotherapy.

A good air cooler (as opposed to the best performing air coolers) will probably restrict maxiumum output of the 7950X by more than your specified limit of 5%. Outside benchmarking apps and FPS scores in games, you probably won't notice much difference on air.

If you do buy a big air cooler, check the height carefully. Some computer cases don't have enough room to fit tall air coolers, unless you leave the side panel off. There's also RAM clearance to consider. I had to raise the front fan on my NH-D15 to install DIMMs in the recommended sockets. As a result, the fan sticks out above the top of the heatpipes, but with a couple of millimetres clearance to the side panel.

 

[Macro Device]

you should be prepared for a course or two of chemotherapy.

Great, now I got an excuse for stoking my mane.

If you've decided against a 360mm AIO

Only 420. 360 will fit just fine.

FPS scores in games,

These don't really matter, my client doesn't play anything that needs more than an i3-12100 to max his display out.

If you do buy a big air cooler, check the height carefully.

Case supports ridiculously tall coolers for sure, it's about 210 mm limit. With RAM, of course, it could be delicate.

will probably restrict maxiumum output of the 7950X by more than your specified limit of 5%.

Noted.

But this thread only proved academical. This clown wasted his budget on a Thailand trip so no PC for him this time around.

 

[AnotherReader]

At the time of Zen 4's release, @W1zzard covered air cooling the 7950X. Here's what he had to say:

At highly-parallelized 16-32 thread workloads, the NH-U14S is able to keep frequencies well above the 5 GHz-mark until 40% fan. This translates into a 1-2% performance loss averaged across all tests between 40-100% fan settings, and an almost 3% loss at the lowest fan-speed. Again, the most highly parallelized tasks such as Cinebench nT see performance losses nearing 5%. When comparing the 420 mm AIO with the NH-U14S, the former does achieve (negligible) performance gains in all workloads, including gaming, particularly at the resolutions people typically game at. Even in games that are CPU-limited, the differences are well contained to just a few percent.

 

[Vya Domus]

At the time of Zen 4's release, @W1zzard covered air cooling the 7950X. Here's what he had to say:

From what I can see it's not mentioned whether an open test bench was used or a case, a lot of reviews/tests out there are very misleading because an air cooler will perform far worse once put in a case vs an AIO.

 

[Harlow]

an air cooler will perform far worse once put in a case vs an AIO.

I can see this might be true if an AIO radiator is mounted horizontally at the top, with heat from the CPU being removed directly from the inside the case by fans under the radiator.

But if the AIO radiator is mounted vertically behind the front panel and if the front fans are forcing air into the case, heat from the CPU will be dumped internally, in the same manner as a typical air cooler. In this instance, I can't see the difference between air and AIO. They both dump CPU heat inside the case.

Perhaps I'm mistaken about front fans normally blowing air into the case. When you install a vertical radiator behind the front panel, do you automatically set the front fans to force air through the radiator and out into the room?

 

[A Computer Guy]

I can see this might be true if an AIO radiator is mounted horizontally at the top, with heat from the CPU being removed directly from the inside the case by fans under the radiator.

If you have a radiator ejecting hot air out of your case the downside is the CPU radiator is not getting the most ambient air for cooling. However ejecting warm air out of the case overall can be more efficient as long as there aren't significant obstructions. (dust filter, not enough clearance for easy flow, etc...) I think this is likely the most popular option as most people have air cooled GPU's and getting warm air out of the case is a priority for GPU performance.

But if the AIO radiator is mounted vertically behind the front panel and if the front fans are forcing air into the case, heat from the CPU will be dumped internally, in the same manner as a typical air cooler. In this instance, I can't see the difference between air and AIO. They both dump CPU heat inside the case.

If the radiator is ejecting hot air inside the case it's probably getting the most ambient air for cooling but you need to now manage getting the heat out of the case for your other components to cool. In the case of air cooling you may be able to duct your CPU heatsink output so heat dumped into the case is minimized.

Perhaps I'm mistaken about front fans normally blowing air into the case. When you install a vertical radiator behind the front panel, do you automatically set the front fans to force air through the radiator and out into the room?

I would say most people probably don't do that. Front panels typically have mesh, or mesh filters, or if you have poor case design not allowing a lot of clearance for air to escape, and those things create restrictions on getting heat out of the case. If you don't have those restrictions then front exhaust would be fine.

 

[Vya Domus]

I can see this might be true if an AIO radiator is mounted horizontally at the top, with heat from the CPU being removed directly from the inside the case by fans under the radiator.

But if the AIO radiator is mounted vertically behind the front panel and if the front fans are forcing air into the case, heat from the CPU will be dumped internally, in the same manner as a typical air cooler. In this instance, I can't see the difference between air and AIO. They both dump CPU heat inside the case.

Perhaps I'm mistaken about front fans normally blowing air into the case. When you install a vertical radiator behind the front panel, do you automatically set the front fans to force air through the radiator and out into the room?

Air coolers are always more dependent on case cooling because with an AIO no matter where it's placed it will either pull fresh air in or exhaust hot air directly out, meaning there is just less hot air being recirculated inside the case. Basically any fan in the middle of the case like the ones on the CPU/GPU coolers will disturb the airflow, and some of that hot air will just keep being drawn back in by those same fans, it's unavoidable.

I have 4 radiators as part of a custom loop, 2 sides pull air in, 2 sides exhaust air out, there is virtually no air being recirculated inside, the glass sides of my case are almost cold to the touch under load (500W+), the air inside would be a lot warmer in an all air cooled PC.

 

[JustBenching]

ID-Cooling:
• SE-207-XT
• SE-226-XT
• FROZN A610 ARGB
• FROZN A620 ARGB

DeepCool:
• AK620
• AG620 Digital
• ASSASIN 4S

Thermaltake:
• ASTRIA 600 ARGB Lighting

Thermalright:
• ARO-M14O
• Macho MAXX

Realistically an air cooler is perfectly fine unless you wanna participate in some overclocking competitions.

Stock 13900k on a U12A - 41200 cbr23 at 85c. Stock 14900k on a U12A - almost 42k at 85c.

Both were temperature limited at 85c. Would I get better scores with an AIO? Probably, but how much, like 500 points?

 

[Harlow]

Basically any fan in the middle of the case like the ones on the CPU/GPU coolers will disturb the airflow, and some of that hot air will just keep being drawn back in by those same fans, it's unavoidable.

I'm considering air coolers from the perspective of server cooling, where sets of fans distributed through the chassis, front to back, maintain a reasonably laminar air flow. Together with internal baffles, this is the way my HP servers are cooled. Server manufacturers take great care to design good cooling.

Fans on the front panels of my tower systems draw air into the case, directing it towards the first fan of a dual tower cooler. The centre fan pulls air through the cooler vanes and immediately behind is another fan extracting air out of the case at the back. Yes, there is turbulence, but that can be beneficial for cooling RAM, VRMs and possibly an M.2 SSD. I've seen AIO builds where people have been forced to install additional fans aimed at the VRMs, because they don't benefit from the "turbulence" of a CPU heatsink with fans.

As for hot air "being drawn back in by those same fans", the room I'm sitting in is getting nice and warm, due to heat from my PC running video renders. The PC heats the room and draws heated air back inside, heats it up further and warms the room even more. Good in winter. Not so good if it's summer and you need AC.

with an AIO no matter where it's placed it will either pull fresh air in ..... meaning there is just less hot air being recirculated inside the case

Which was my original point. When you pull "fresh" air in through a front mounted radiator, you get more hot air inside the case, just as you do with an air cooler. You then have to extract the hot air from the case. It doesn't matter if the heat inside the case came from a radiator filled with coolant, or the vanes of a heatsink bolted directly to the CPU. It's still unwanted hot air that needs to be extracted. A top mounted radiator with exhaust fans seems like a better idea. No extra heat dumped inside the case.

Mind you, some modern servers are moving over to liquid cooling. A good way of extracting 2 kW of heat.

 

[Glina]

What about coolers I posted above? I reckon they might provide 1 to 3 percent worse performance overall (compared to your Noctua NH-D15) but I might be off. If I'm not off then I'm buying the best one amongst them and liquid cooling waits for a build that explicitly needs it.

Therrmalright/Deepcool is a Chinese brand and you can easily source it from Aliexpress. This should work fine in your case.