Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[tabascosauz]

That's not my question. So anyone can confirm that idle spikes are still present in zen 3?

It's the same behaviour in every chip on Zen 2 and 3 architecture. Get a big cooler and set a flat fan curve and hysteresis if you're bothered by the noise, or run a low voltage all-core OC if your fan control lacks features and granularity.

 

[RainingTacco]

Thanks for the actual answer.

 

[Mussels]

5800x on stock with beta BIOS
ROG STRIX X570-F GAMING BIOS 2812 AGESA V2 PI 1.1.0.0 Patch C

Stock, 240mm AIO
~45C idle with chrome open
85-90C load... this sucker just turbos balls to the effing wall, performance is insane tho. 32% faster single threaded than my 3700X @ 4.3GHz, the only limit to MT and temps is what i set the power target to... 65W eco mode has dropped the MT temps by about 10-15C while leaving ST alone


Edit: games that were CPU limited are laughably fast now. flatlining 144FPS in SC2 and grim dawn... its like the change from 60 to 144hz all over again.

 

[Flyordie]

And I might have to RMA my ITX board. All Bluetooth functions from the AX200 straight up disappeared in hardware and software. Wifi 6 works fine so I suspect some part of the BIOS gave up the ghost.

I guess it's reassuring to see that good ol Gigabyte hasn't changed, that they still can't make functional BIOSes worth a damn. Not doing a lot other than some mundane memory testing these past few days, and every day is a new delightful surprise.

Old BIOS settings sticking and unchangeable despite Windows clearly showing reset to default settings, BIOS refusing to reboot into anything other than BIOS, entire menus disappearing from the BIOS (at one point I lost both Smart Fan and AMD Overclocking), corrupted BIOSes that not even Q-Flash can solve, and now the Bluetooth disappearing act.

Kinda glad I left the Gigabyte board for my tinkering rig and not my main computer. Great board, terrible firmware.

I am in 100% agreement with the bolded statement... They STILL haven't fixed the X399 Gaming 7 CPU voltage bug. Pisses me off that I can't change my voltage without it ignoring what I set. The only way the bug goes away is if I downgrade to F3J. After that, any voltage I set.. hits the CPU with 1.6V. Not joking. 1.6V. I've let them know about it, how to replicate it and its still there.

I'd much rather see the damn RGB BS removed from the BIOS. That shit can be control in the OS. -_-

 

[thesmokingman]

I am in 100% agreement with the bolded statement... They STILL haven't fixed the X399 Gaming 7 CPU voltage bug. Pisses me off that I can't change my voltage without it ignoring what I set. The only way the bug goes away is if I downgrade to F3J. After that, any voltage I set.. hits the CPU with 1.6V. Not joking. 1.6V. I've let them know about it, how to replicate it and its still there.

I'd much rather see the damn RGB BS removed from the BIOS. That shit can be control in the OS. -_-

Yeap. I was stupefied when I realized that the bios on the TRX40 Xtreme does not save fan setting in the profiles like every other brand does. Seriously, its an 850 board and they cannot manage that. Imagine during the process or setting up a rig or worse overclocking and every time you reset, load your saved profile but wait you have to go thru and manually input the fan profiles. Each and every damn time... its seriously brain damaged whomever was in charge of that board.

 

[Flyordie]

Yeap. I was stupefied when I realized that the bios on the TRX40 Xtreme does not save fan setting in the profiles like every other brand does. Seriously, its an 850 board and they cannot manage that. Imagine during the process or setting up a rig or worse overclocking and every time you reset, load your saved profile but wait you have to go thru and manually input the fan profiles. Each and every damn time... its seriously brain damaged whomever was in charge of that board.

Strangely enough, fan profiles on my board work great in the BIOS. lol.

 

[Mussels]

system upgrades aren't real until they're in your TPU specs

 

[Chomiq]

It's the same behaviour in every chip on Zen 2 and 3 architecture. Get a big cooler and set a flat fan curve and hysteresis if you're bothered by the noise, or run a low voltage all-core OC if your fan control lacks features and granularity.

Aren't those spikes really caused by wrong temperature sensors being read by mobo? That's why there's always temperature variance between RM readout and other software.

 

[tabascosauz]

Aren't those spikes really caused by wrong temperature sensors being read by mobo? That's why there's always temperature variance between RM readout and other software.

No, the different temp readings are just different methods of representing the data from the same array of sensors. It's kinda like recent RDNA GPUs, Tctl/Tdie is more of a dynamic hotspot reading that selects data from the hottest sensor, but unfortunately it's still the only reading that can be tied to fan control. Once you load up something all core like Prime95, Tctl, Tdie average and RM all report the same unchanging temperature because the entire silicon is about the same temp

 

[8BitZ80]

That's not my question. So anyone can confirm that idle spikes are still present in zen 3?

If you're talking about the saw-tooth temperature spikes at idle that made the fan ramp up and down, I can safely say that it's been fixed with Ryzen 5000. At least with mine.

When I had my Ryzen 3100 installed I had horrible saw-tooth temps where it spiked up by 10C every few seconds. Now with my 5600X the temperatures are constant at idle, and the fluctuations you see on these graphs here are less than one degree for the most part.

 

[RainingTacco]

By spike i mean a cpu going from 45 to 60 just because you opened chrome.

 

[EarthDog]

By spike i mean a cpu going from 45 to 60 just because you opened chrome.

As I said (and was an actual answer) this is pretty normal. Intel does it. Ryzen 2000/3000 series... they all do it. I've got a 10980XE here a 10900K a 3900X and 5950X...they all do that.

 

[tabascosauz]

By spike i mean a cpu going from 45 to 60 just because you opened chrome.

That's par for the course and will continue to be so going forward. That's the exact kind of behaviour you'd expect day and night from an AMD or Intel ultrabook, and since 2019 AMD's goal has been to bring that milliseconds-latency laptop hardware responsiveness to the desktop, for a better user experience. Intel has been doing the same since Kaby Lake, though usually with slightly less precision than AMD on desktop.

It's not 2012 anymore; gotta stop thinking about CPU usage as simple divide between IDLE and LOAD. Modern CPUs respond to activity by reaching full frequency after just 2-30ms. Freq, volts and temps all lie on a constantly sliding scale now and depend on a variety of factors. Cores come out of idle at a split second's notice, then go right back into a deep idle state once the work's done.

Besides, with any respectable air cooler and well-configured fan control, you'd never notice unless you spend all day staring at the HWInfo screen for some reason.

 

[8BitZ80]

As I said (and was an actual answer) this is pretty normal. Intel does it. Ryzen 2000/3000 series... they all do it. I've got a 10980XE here a 10900K a 3900X and 5950X...they all do that.

All CPUs kick up the temperatures instantly when you open a new program etc. True. But speaking from my own experience going from the 4670K to Ryzen 3100, there was a very real idle temperature quirk with Ryzen 3000. I had to set a long fan response delay to stop the constant CPU fan ramping at idle when it spiked every few seconds on the 3100. The problem was still obvious after upgrading from the Wraith Stealth to Noctua cooler, the main difference being the fan was inherently quieter.

Now on Ryzen 5000 that quirk is gone and temperature graphs are flat at idle. The fan delay reset itself after upgrading but I haven't needed to change it anyway. No more fan ramping. There was a real issue with Ryzen 3000 and I know because I spent so much time adjusting fan curves. The 5600X has higher temperatures overall but it is far better behaved at idle, so it has been a much nicer CPU to use for office work. That's been my own experiences to date.

 

[EarthDog]

Odd... mine was 'flat' at idle (3900x) that I recall. Interesting.

But yeah, regardless of CPU, opening up a program like dude asks, there is always a blip. It's been that way for generations.

Idle temps don't really matter (outside of if they are out of whack warm, you're going to run hot on load, generally)... and blips are normal.

 

[RainingTacco]

As I said (and was an actual answer) this is pretty normal. Intel does it. Ryzen 2000/3000 series... they all do it. I've got a 10980XE here a 10900K a 3900X and 5950X...they all do that.

Not only my old intel ran cooler it didn't have such spikes. I went straight from haswell into ryzen 3600 and was negatively surprised by the inferior operation when it comes to self regulation, loudness, sensor reading. Ryzen CPUs have really high heat density, therefore their cooling is very poor compared to intel[at least older intels dont know how 9000/10000 fare]

Thanks poopipeboy, your experience was like mine. Ryzen was dogshit after going from intel platform. It's good to hear they improved the cpu/temperature behaviour, maybe my next CPU won't be an intel after all if ryzen run its course? I will still probably return to intel because i feel like its better, like its a proper CPU company with their own fabs, manufacturing, more experience. If something is wrong i won't doubt manufacturer but myself then

But yeah, regardless of CPU, opening up a program like dude asks, there is always a blip. It's been that way for generations.

Blip yes, but not a 25*C increase in some cases. Going from 37 to 62 is just insane behaviour and should never be tolerated by anyone who has at least some self respect to what he/she buy. It's very hard to plot any relevant and suitable fan curve with this bullshit behaviour. I don't have problem with milisecond reaction, improving latency and making cpus more energy efficient by dropping clocks aggressively, what i have problem with is the sudden temperature change whether its because of sensor, or actual heating. If the temperature change was more gradual[meaning cpu ihs was designed to remove that sudden heat] there would be no problem.But AMD cpus werent designed for that apparently, because there's high heat density, there's less heat inertia, and heat accumulate much quicker, given same/constant heat removal by cooler. Improving thermal mass means absolutely nothing -same behaviour is observed on crappy wraith and scythe mugen 5 which is two times heavier. AMD just fugged with their chiplet design[?] and transistor density[?] without proper ihs, bigger thermal mass[copper plating] inside? Idk but looks like it.

 

[EarthDog]

Going from 37 to 62 is just insane behaviour and should never be tolerated by anyone who has at least some self respect to what he/she buy.

Thats a bit drastic.. wow. The rest of that passage...more or less known. But nobody screwed the pooch.

FTR, I have zero problems setting a fan curve in any of these machines. Low. They dont budge. The difference in temps, a few C, doesn't allow better overclocking or maybe 100 mhz. So MEH. Quite simply, if I'm benchmarking, ill crank the fans. If not, they stay in silent/low. No reindeer games to worry about these common spikes. Ive got better things to do... like game and not worry.

 

[8BitZ80]

Odd... mine was 'flat' at idle (3900x) that I recall. Interesting.

But yeah, regardless of CPU, opening up a program like dude asks, there is always a blip. It's been that way for generations.

Idle temps don't really matter (outside of if they are out of whack warm, you're going to run hot on load, generally)... and blips are normal.

Now that's weird. I don't know if it's less pronounced on other SKUs or if it's a power plan thing, but for the life of me I couldn't stop it from ramping. My suspicion is that it was the continual hand-off between CPU cores over the infinity fabric that was creating activity every few seconds at idle. But if so, it would've been inherent to the Ryzen 3000 architecture and there's not much that can be done about it. Very annoying behavior for a silent PC build. But once you loaded it up with a game it performed great and ran at a constant temperature.

Thanks poopipeboy, your experience was like mine. Ryzen was dogshit after going from intel platform. It's good to hear they improved the cpu/temperature behaviour, maybe my next CPU won't be an intel after all if ryzen run its course? I will still probably return to intel because i feel like its better, like its a proper CPU company with their own fabs, manufacturing, more experience. If something is wrong i won't doubt manufacturer but myself then

YW, I reckon it's safe to say that Ryzen can compete with Intel on quality at this point. I expected with upgrading to Ryzen 3000 that the differences between Intel vs AMD would be imperceptible, but in reality there was some noticeable differences in the sensor behavior. The cores would constantly alternate in usage, that kind of stuff. Now with Ryzen 5000 I'd struggle to tell for certain if I were on Intel or AMD without looking at the processor specs, and that says a lot about how refined Ryzen is now. The improvements in architecture and unified cache have had a bigger effect on refinement than most reviewers were letting on.

 

[biffzinker]

The cores would constantly alternate in usage, that kind of stuff.

Some of that is Windows doing stuff in background causing activity on the cores, and the scheduler shuffling threads around the cores. Just because you did a boot up/reboot, and it’s sitting at the desktop idle doesn’t mean you can consider it B genuinely idle. Plus programs added to startup sitting in the system tray possibly causing activity.

 

[Space Lynx]

I really don't understand all these people with 5600x hitting 4.7 and 4.8 all core at like 1.3 volts... read it in multiple places too... mine can't do it anyway. I can do 4.6 all core at 1.35 volts, and a medium LLC. temps are good and its stable, but I can't get 4.7 for the life of me. will just leave it at 4.6 all core and be happy lol

 

[Mussels]

I really don't understand all these people with 5600x hitting 4.7 and 4.8 all core at like 1.3 volts... read it in multiple places too... mine can't do it anyway. I can do 4.6 all core at 1.35 volts, and a medium LLC. temps are good and its stable, but I can't get 4.7 for the life of me. will just leave it at 4.6 all core and be happy lol

if you're gaming, let it boost [/elsa voice]

i'm seeing all my cores except one hit 5050, no way would i drop to 4.6 all core and suffer the gaming loss

 

[Space Lynx]

if you're gaming, let it boost [/elsa voice]

i'm seeing all my cores except one hit 5050, no way would i drop to 4.6 all core and suffer the gaming loss

Yeah, I ended up resetting BIOS, doing my ram again and nothing else. Then I downloaded Ryzen Master, clicked Auto OC and rebooted, I am getting better scores and temps now than I did even with all core 4.6


So your saying, disable Auto OC and uninstall Ryzen master and just let it do its thing and I might even get higher scores? no BIOS changes needed?

edit: fyi is that a Frozen reference? lol if so well done good sir well done... lol

 

[Mussels]

do you want to build a.... fuck nothing techy rhymes with snowman

I turned on eco mode, changed that boost setting to +200Mhz (not that you get all 200) and undervolted -.05v
shits faaaaaast

i mean i'm still on a 'mere' 1080 and suddenly i'm maxing out games at ultra settings sitting at 1440p when i had no chance of this on the 3700x, its fucking weird how much of an FPS improvement i've had with the CPU and RAM upgrade.

 

[RainingTacco]

lynx29 have you tried ryzen tuner and check what bin you'v got? I wouldn't bother with OC on these ryzens, unless you can get at least -200mhz all core speed than what boost have[so 4,8ghz, anything lower is bad]
Mussels i find it hard to believe that you would get fps improvement with new CPU. My 3600 see 20-60% usage in games, in heaviest one i see 60% usage while my 5700 xt is maxed out. So there's still some cpu power unused. And im playing at 1080p which should excarberate the issue more than 1440p. I think it's your new ram[?] and maybe the latency decrease between CCX make for a smoother frametimes? idk really, maybe its just placebo.

 

[Space Lynx]

lynx29 have you tried ryzen tuner and check what bin you'v got? I wouldn't bother with OC on these ryzens, unless you can get at least -200mhz all core speed than what boost have[so 4,8ghz, anything lower is bad]
Mussels i find it hard to believe that you would get fps improvement with new CPU. My 3600 see 20-60% usage in games, in heaviest one i see 60% usage while my 5700 xt is maxed out. So there's still some cpu power unused. And im playing at 1080p which should excarberate the issue more than 1440p. I think it's your new ram[?] and maybe the latency decrease between CCX make for a smoother frametimes? idk really, maybe its just placebo.

im waiting on a zen 3 update before i use ryzen tuner.