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Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

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iGPU, the CPU VGA driver that enhances the capability by AMD driver instead MS Win default, but if you use only discrete GPU then don't even install it...

... the driver version numbers mismatch because motherbords uses customisations so changes number that refer to same base driver sourced from AMD.

//

My Asus B650E-E called :
AMD Chipset Driver V5.03.24.2328 For Windows 10/11 64-bit.
2023/04/10

AMD same date approx :
5.02.19.2221
2/28/2023
 

tabascosauz

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chipset is separate from gpu drivers? what is vga? i thought vga was video card?

and gpu

so what is the the vga? and the number doesn't match either of these, even though it was just released today on MSI motherboard website

???? VGA = GPU

They have always been two separate things.

Just get the latest chipset driver from AMD. Old CPUs have not been receiving performance enhancements for a long time.

iGPU, the CPU VGA driver that enhances the capability by AMD driver instead MS Win default, but if you use only discrete GPU then don't even install it...

... the driver version numbers mismatch because motherbords uses customisations so changes number that refer to same base driver sourced from AMD.

New iGPU in Raphael doesn't get its own driver, still normal Adrenalin drivers. Chipset drivers have never had anything to do with GPU drivers (except for that wack bug between RM and Radeon Software)
 

Space Lynx

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I think everyone is misunderstanding me, or I mistyped something.

I have ALWAYS installed a chipset driver, reboot, then gpu driver, reboot on every clean install I have ever done. I always get both from AMD.com to make sure its the latest.

@Klemc you answered my question about the number mismatch, that is all I needed to know. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some special driver, it always confused me, I always ignored it until now, but because my CPU will be x3d, I wanted to be extra sure its being utilized.

I am curious if I can get God of War to hit 165 fps more steady now, apparently if you set a games settings to medium/original in the case of God of War, it makes the x3d cache go insane... with gains.

so I am curious to replay some parts of certain games, and see how much of an improvement I get. im not expecting much from certain games of course, I did see a youtuber gain 30 fps in god of war over a 5600x though, simply my testing the game with "original" preset instead of ultra/high. this is something benchmarks on websites like tpu never show you, but games on medium to/high settings eat x3d cache for breakfast apparently...

really going to have fun testing it all out :D

Stop talking about the X3D! Some people are fighting with their systems to get their SoC voltage right, and here I am, fighting with my urge to get a 7800X3D just because why not. All this X3D talk is not helping. :roll:

I am pretty happy with my decision to do the 5800x3d while it was on a good sale and 1% tax... next gen gave me TWO giant headaches bot blue and red team... really looking forward to tomorrow, going to take my time and enjoy this build in the new case I have had in storage for awhile. pics will come, before with my old case, and new case... might not get done until friday, we will see.
 

tabascosauz

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@Klemc you answered my question about the number mismatch, that is all I needed to know. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some special driver, it always confused me, I always ignored it until now, but because my CPU will be x3d, I wanted to be extra sure its being utilized.

The special driver is only for 7900X3D and 7950X3D due to the CCD switching logic necessary not to tank performance. 7800X3D and 5800X3D are both chillin'. You only need an AGESA 1206 or later BIOS for 5800X3D to work properly. 1207 if you can't have fTPM disabled. 1208 if you want CO re-added to the BIOS without BIOS modding.

About utilization, framerate will be really the only way to tell, all you can do is just ensure you have good general performance out of the CPU and hope that the specific game benefits. Cache (whether base die L3 or Vcache) does not get hot in Ryzen CPUs, and the cache effective clock in HWInfo is also not really a reliable indicator of utilization, although I have noticed that L3 clock stays relatively high at all times on 5800X3D compared to regular Vermeer CPUs.
 

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The special driver is only for 7900X3D and 7950X3D due to the CCD switching logic necessary not to tank performance. 7800X3D and 5800X3D are both chillin'. You only need an AGESA 1206 or later BIOS for 5800X3D to work properly. 1207 if you can't have fTPM disabled. 1208 if you want CO re-added to the BIOS without BIOS modding.

About utilization, framerate will be really the only way to tell, all you can do is just ensure you have good general performance out of the CPU and hope that the specific game benefits. Cache (whether base die L3 or Vcache) does not get hot in Ryzen CPUs, and the cache effective clock in HWInfo is also not really a reliable indicator of utilization, although I have noticed that L3 clock stays relatively high at all times on 5800X3D compared to regular Vermeer CPUs.

I'm on 1.2.0.8. update

I don't think I will mess with anything, going to reset BIOS to all default, reboot, change out the CPU, reboot, set xmp, reboot, then clean install win 11.

since silicon of 5000 series is pretty top notch this late in the cycle, I wouldn't be surprised if I can do a -30 CO on it, would it actually net me real world performance gains in gaming though at 1440p? I honestly haven't looked much into it.

Is it that simple? you just go into CO set it to -30 leave everything else default? I am guessing its not that simple. :D

iGPU, the CPU VGA driver that enhances the capability by AMD driver instead MS Win default, but if you use only discrete GPU then don't even install it...

... the driver version numbers mismatch because motherbords uses customisations so changes number that refer to same base driver sourced from AMD.

//

My Asus B650E-E called :
AMD Chipset Driver V5.03.24.2328 For Windows 10/11 64-bit.
2023/04/10

AMD same date approx :
5.02.19.2221
2/28/2023

I did notice that the motherboard driver for vga on bios for may 10th I linked, is almost 900mb in size, yet the official one 23.4.3 is only around 600mb... hmm.
 

tabascosauz

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I'm on 1.2.0.8. update

I don't think I will mess with anything, going to reset BIOS to all default, reboot, change out the CPU, reboot, set xmp, reboot, then clean install win 11.

since silicon of 5000 series is pretty top notch this late in the cycle, I wouldn't be surprised if I can do a -30 CO on it, would it actually net me real world performance gains in gaming though at 1440p? I honestly haven't looked much into it.

Is it that simple? you just go into CO set it to -30 leave everything else default? I am guessing its not that simple. :D

I did notice that the motherboard driver for vga on bios for may 10th I linked, is almost 900mb in size, yet the official one 23.4.3 is only around 600mb... hmm.

The clean install is a good idea, had to do one to get rid of stuttering from 3700X>5900X, and again 5900X>5800X3D

Most 5800X3D samples have a good shot at -30 because 1) process maturity 2) low clocks 3) single CCD. Because of the way the CPU is hard capped at 4.45/4.55GHz, I doubt CO makes much of a performance difference. CO makes a disproportionate impact on reducing temps and power for this CPU, however.
 

Space Lynx

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The clean install is a good idea, had to do one to get rid of stuttering from 3700X>5900X, and again 5900X>5800X3D

Most 5800X3D samples have a good shot at -30 because 1) process maturity 2) low clocks 3) single CCD. Because of the way the CPU is hard capped at 4.45/4.55GHz, I doubt CO makes much of a performance difference. CO makes a disproportionate impact on reducing temps and power for this CPU, however.

so it's that easy? just go into CO setting and choose -30, reboot? test to make sure stable, if stable I basically am saving on temps but getting same performance?

as long as that is all there is to it, I am willing to give it a go. my ram is staying at xmp though, im done tinkering with ram for the rest of my life. xmp or expo and boom done. i liked it at first, but its just a headache and not worth the effort and time
 

tabascosauz

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so it's that easy? just go into CO setting and choose -30, reboot? test to make sure stable, if stable I basically am saving on temps but getting same performance?

as long as that is all there is to it, I am willing to give it a go. my ram is staying at xmp though, im done tinkering with ram for the rest of my life. xmp or expo and boom done. i liked it at first, but its just a headache and not worth the effort and time

Pretty much. Because clocks are so low and the boost is almost Intel-like, I just ran a pass of default corecycler (around 50min I think) and called it a day. There are a lot of subtle differences in behaviour between the X3D and all the other Vermeers, it's a bit of a "dumb" CPU in that sense.

It also sucks at memory latency which just adds to all the other factors making it a good daily that you don't need to ever think about or fuss over.
 

Mussels

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Gigabytes fix doesnt work, as of 1 hour ago with their F10D BIOS
Note that EXPO isn't even enabled here - he still got a 1.7v alert and shutdown via HWinfo, and a screenshot of 1.55v the next event
1683768882799.png


so it's that easy? just go into CO setting and choose -30, reboot? test to make sure stable, if stable I basically am saving on temps but getting same performance?

as long as that is all there is to it, I am willing to give it a go. my ram is staying at xmp though, im done tinkering with ram for the rest of my life. xmp or expo and boom done. i liked it at first, but its just a headache and not worth the effort and time
thats how mine behaved, none of my other Zen3 CPU's have worked the same way but the x3D seems to just go -30 and be happy with it.

Load optimised defaults in the BIOS after the CPU change, it helps a lot. That should prevent needing an OS reinstall.
 
Last edited:

3x0

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Gigabytes fix doesnt work, as of 1 hour ago with their F10D BIOS
Note that EXPO isn't even enabled here
Software readings are unreliable, so no conclusion can be drawn here.
 
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I am pretty happy with my decision to do the 5800x3d while it was on a good sale and 1% tax... next gen gave me TWO giant headaches bot blue and red team... really looking forward to tomorrow, going to take my time and enjoy this build in the new case I have had in storage for awhile. pics will come, before with my old case, and new case... might not get done until friday, we will see.
Yeah, the 5800X3D is a sweet CPU, especially at current prices. I really should have got one while I was on AM4. I swapped when I got tempted by 11th gen Intel due to them being very easy to cool - which I didn't regret until the 5800X3D came out. Rocket Lake is really super easy to cool compared to any Ryzen. I'm also happy with the 7700X. It's way more than I need (even the 11700 was), but here I am, drooling over 7800X3D reviews. With my gaming habits, I'd probably be fine with a 5600, but nah... I'm gonna have to learn to control my impulses, I guess. :laugh:

Gigabytes fix doesnt work, as of 1 hour ago with their F10D BIOS
Note that EXPO isn't even enabled here
View attachment 295366
How about PBO? There have been news that enabling PBO disables safeties on some boards.
 

Space Lynx

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Gigabytes fix doesnt work, as of 1 hour ago with their F10D BIOS
Note that EXPO isn't even enabled here
View attachment 295366


thats how mine behaved, none of my other Zen3 CPU's have worked the same way but the x3D seems to just go -30 and be happy with it.

Load optimised defaults in the BIOS after the CPU change, it helps a lot. That should prevent needing an OS reinstall.

fuck I am so glad I went with 5800x3d, and this is partly why, next gen just looks like a train wreck.
Yeah, the 5800X3D is a sweet CPU, especially at current prices. I really should have got one while I was on AM4. I swapped when I got tempted by 11th gen Intel due to them being very easy to cool - which I didn't regret until the 5800X3D came out. Rocket Lake is really super easy to cool compared to any Ryzen. I'm also happy with the 7700X. It's way more than I need (even the 11700 was), but here I am, drooling over 7800X3D reviews. With my gaming habits, I'd probably be fine with a 5600, but nah... I'm gonna have to learn to control my impulses, I guess. :laugh:

i think you should stick with 7700x if its all working well for you, leave BIOS alone until 8800x3d comes out, update bios when that comes out, then upgrade. that's my advice to you.
 
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i think you should stick with 7700x if its all working well for you, leave BIOS alone until 8800x3d comes out, update bios when that comes out, then upgrade. that's my advice to you.
That's probably what I'm gonna do. Having an X3D is a nice thought... spending over 400 quid on something that I don't really need, not so much. :ohwell:
 

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Software readings are unreliable, so no conclusion can be drawn here.
They can be, when multiple sensors are in agreement - his CPU temps spiked at the same moment, which is proof enough that the voltage spiked.
What you cant judge 100% is how high they spiked - so far the voltage readings have been reading *lower* than the hardware readings, when tested by the professionals.
 
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They can be, when multiple sensors are in agreement - his CPU temps spiked at the same moment, which is proof enough that the voltage spiked.
What you cant judge 100% is how high they spiked - so far the voltage readings have been reading *lower* than the hardware readings, when tested by the professionals.
I find it strange that his compute die temperature spiked. VSOC relates to the IO die, as far as I know.
 

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I find it strange that his compute die temperature spiked. VSOC relates to the IO die, as far as I know.
No answer on that, there has been discussion on shared power rails and physically just being near each other with some of this.
I'm just posting some summaries here as i find them, since not everyone will watch every video







TL;DR:
  • EXPO does not contain VSOC. That is 100% upto the motherboard.
  • AMD is replacing CPUs, free shipping in the US

  • Asus are handling this super badly, at a hardware, firmware, and professional level. GN have called them out repeatedly.
  • Asus edited their website, removing x3D support from previously supported BIOSes from 1101 to 1202, to refuse warranty support if the CPU was used on the board.
  • Asus BIOS settings over-volt, while the AMD overclocking menu is accurate on the same board
  • Asus Agesa 1.0.0.7 was an internal test build, not set for public release
  • Asus EXPO profiles are often not loaded from the RAM, but their own presets.
  • Asus boards are refusing to boot without EXPO and high speed DRAM kits on auto/JEDEC settings, period.
Asus outright broke AMDs rules, then lied about it, and admitted to it.
'7000x3D CPU's dont have voltage control!
1683882405693.png


1683882484822.png

Oh shit did we say that out loud?
I mean uh no, we definitely didnt break AMD's rules and have voltage controls active and killing CPUs, especially from our EXPO profiles Custom tuned overclocking profiles



  • Gigabyte are just ignoring the users settings, with "auto" being something previously set - so if expo set 1.35 and you reset to defaults, it'd stay 1.35v



Multiple boards had too high, or entirely disabled temperature limits.
1683879607396.png


Asus: SoC voltage spikes massively. 1.20v/expo as high as 1.41v
*This varies based on RAM kit. Higher voltage RAM would spike higher*
1683879640480.png


The Asus board also managed to send 38Amps over the 12V EPS cable (CPU power cable) - almost 450W.
It ran over 200C on the CPU.
Not a single safety feature activated.
The CPU explosively delidded itself.
1683880048270.png


Then of course, they just decided that "EXPO I" and "EXPO II" don't actually load the values from the RAM - they're asus overclocking presets.

At this stage, asus "fix" and "1.30v" limit was just to shave 0.5v off these presets, so they still run dangerously high
1683880887346.png
1683880960967.png



Gigabyte/Aorus: BIOS bugs where *PREVIOUSLY SET* SoC voltage remains, even after BIOS reset/changed to auto

1683879583210.png



AMD is helping out, even if the board makers are at fault.
1683879744539.png



Their newest video is just blasting asus for being so shitty about this whole thing.
"Scumbag ASUS: Overvolting CPUs & Screwing the Customer"

"Asus plainly state in their BIOS updates, f*ck you"
(Their fix BIOS fixes nothing, but they're using it to refuse to honour warranty requests)
1683880388639.png


They've had a few bioses go up and vanish and some interesting typos, we're into 6 dimensional ryzens now.
1683880486045.png





I Love this sassyness: Asus say: Do not use EXPO. Use BIOS defaults.
So GN are re-reviewing their boards without EXPO.
Buy our expensive boards to run stock settings, or you kill the CPU
Or update the BIOS to use EXPO and void your warranty.

That's why i'd spend this money!
1683881560219.png

1683881471227.png
 
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freeagent

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Lol Asus..

That’s a fine hole you’ve dug for yourself.
 

tabascosauz

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Lol Asus..

That’s a fine hole you’ve dug for yourself.

I still can't believe the nerve of removing die sense from AM5 ROG......daylight robbery

Now they've got what going for them? VSOC that is somehow still dangerous after multiple attempts to fix, Armoury Crate reminder always on by default, fan hysteresis is nice but T30s now exist so you can just set 1000rpm flat and forget, no more Impact on Intel or AMD, an Asus tax that increases with every generation......

Gigabyte RMA staff can torpedo the brand all day long, but I guess you can count on Asus to save the entire Gigabyte brand in the span of a week.
 
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freeagent

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I honestly don’t even know what to say. Someone forgot to take their clown shoes off before entering the lab..
 
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Like i said, they did it on purpose to mass test their hardware, AMD !!
 
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I can't belive that I'm saying this. But I'm glad I'm on an Asrock X670E board. Tech Jesus said this and it's funny as heck.
 

Mussels

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On a phone call with my brother we talked about how this could happen, and my view was that the actual engineers have a "real" board with all these features working - and some cost cutter has done parts swaps and compromises for the retail boards, so they're making working BIOSes and then the hardware the customers receive are physically different and therefore behaving differently [fixed all the typos in this line]

Something like a different revision VRM controller could be why they ask for X and receive Y - but in other cases it seems absolutely intentional, like the AMD overclocking setting vSoC accurately while the asus settings overvolt.

My fear - and a fear i'm sure others share is - how many boards do this? How many Asus motherboards, or even just ANY board are secretly overvolting the shit out of things with inaccurate software readings lying to us?

Armoury Crate reminder always
No joke, that one "feature" made me leave asus for gigabyte on my ITX board
And then that board has it for RGB fusion.
At least it's not exploding CPUs i guess.
I can't belive that I'm saying this. But I'm glad I'm on an Asrock
One of the GN videos says that "A user said they're glad they bought asrock..." and he just looked so dead inside.
(Asrock used to be amazing, but they've been more miss than hit in recent years)
 
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freeagent

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That totally makes sense about the physical hardware being swapped by the bean counters.. I did not consider that..
 
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I can't belive that I'm saying this. But I'm glad I'm on an Asrock X670E board. Tech Jesus said this and it's funny as heck.
I've had a lot of success with different ASRock boards on AM4 except that one time my motherboard committed Seppuku and nearly took my CPU with it. I was hoping they would offer to replace my board but I never got a response when submitting the ticket for that issue.
 
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Mussels

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I've had a lot of success with different ASRock boards on AM4 except that one time my motherboard committed Seppuku and nearly took my CPU with it. I was hoping they would offer to replace my board but I never got a response when submitting the ticket for that issue.
That's a big part of the problem - the poor warranty support.
It's also a good example of this trend being a long term thing - why do these boards not have safeties? Why didnt your VRM's throttle better?
Why can PBO or manual OC'ing go so far as to explode a board, when that board has specific hardware safeties with OCP and OVP?

User/BIOS settings can shift those goals, but when those values are 10% out of spec the whole thing should shut down, not go 500% over them and explode

Different markets and very different prices, but yeah - asus has gone to shit. And it may not just be the AM5 crosshairs, but the brand as a whole.
They blamed everything on user error. Despite knowing it's Jayztwocents.
1683956701670.png
1683956716662.png




TL;DR: Below is a lot more content from JayZ this time, and the summary is this:
Their original Asrock board from their very first AM5 review? Still perfect. Zero flaws.
Him personally? 2 boards died in his personal rig, and 3 DOA's.



Oh yeah, this is from the other gross yucky scary blue team but relevant:
Asus released those Z690 boards with a capacitor installed backwards too
(Link is to the new asus topic, but he brings this up)
1683954294865.png

He also has video proof of CPU's arriving direct from ASUS with no middlemen like amazon, with smashed pins. They admitted it was an RMA return sent to him, as a brand new review sample.
How does an RMA with smashed pins get sent out as a new unit?
They sent another one, in non-retail packaging. To a high end famous influencer who's getting the royal treatment.
It also had weird shit in the socket. Is that fuzz? spider legs??
1683954934245.png

It's like theres zero quality control involved whatsoever, it's just "get X units a day shipped" and they give no fucks if they WORK - and this happens at every step of the supply chain, so individual components could be just as bad.

The third attempt? They just sent the entire wrong board.

His own personal system runs one of these boards that are blowing up, and he has a 3D CPU in it.

In early march, it died.

Yesterday on a live stream, it died again.
The key component? The asus crosshair motherboard.

He specified he was running manual settings with no EXPO.


In his most recent stream, he started getting USB disconnect and reconnect errors, then audio crackling and disconnects- like AM4 with high ram speeds and too low and SoC voltage.
How many people with AM4 issues with crackling audio and USB issues were actually facing this exact same issue in the past?


If this how an internal request from an asus rep, for a famous influencer gets treated - how are general end users getting treated with RMA's? How are they getting treated if their brand new retail unit is damaged like this?


I feel like all the board makers have gone backwards in terms of safety, asus is just the one that went backwards the fastest and then tried to blame the users, where the others at least replaced hardware, came up with fixed revisions and veresion II boards etc.

I'd rather they not release shitty products in the first place, if it's made for 45W CPU's then just say that. You can have a $50 AM5 mobo that says "Eco mode required for higher wattage CPU's" and people would accept that, because hey - at least they can install a 7800x3D in that OEM level board, even if MT performance is lowered.

But no, it's all about marketing a budget board as if its high end, and then a high end board as if it's to quote MSI "godlike" - and then it turned out that god was Zeus.
 
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