Seasonic Updates its PSU Product Lines

[rtwjunkie]

And you should read more reviews from Aris, because they are from much higher quality then the ones on jonnyGURU.

JonnyGURU is THE recognized leader in power supply evaluations and expertise, because they are so very thorough.

 

[-The_Mask-]

JonnyGURU is THE recognized leader in power supply evaluations and expertise, because they are so very thorough.

You really should read the reviews published on this site, because then you would know that isn't true. Aris his reviews are much more thorough, more in depth and he has much better equipment.

 

[rtwjunkie]

You really should read the reviews published on this site, because then you would know that isn't true. Aris his reviews are much more thorough, more in depth and he has much better equipment.

I read reviews where the experts are. Some are on this site. Some are not. The "truth" is whatever you say it is though, I suppose?

It's also a good idea to get an approximation from many sites in each area.

BUT, just to make you happy, going back to December, 2014, not one of the other PSU reviews rates higher than the 9.8 applied to a Seasonic Prime unit.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/?category=Power+Supplies&manufacturer=&pp=25&order=date

 

[-The_Mask-]

I read reviews where the experts are. Some are on this site. Some are not. The "truth" is whatever you say it is though, I suppose?

Well I'm not a person that's only is posting bull shit, like some. But if you don't believe me, why don't you ask the question on jonnyguru forum which person or site makes the best PSU reviews. Even there the answer will be Aris.

BUT, just to make you happy, going back to December, 2014, not one of the other PSU reviews rates higher than the 9.8 applied to a Seasonic Prime unit.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/?category=Power+Supplies&manufacturer=&pp=25&order=date

Like I already said don't look at scoring but at the performance, quality and design it self. Because not everything goes in to scoring and scoring changes over time, the PSU doesn't.

The AX1500i has btw a even higher score.

 

[ZeDestructor]

Well I'm not a person that's only is posting bull shit, like some. But if you don't believe me, why don't you ask the question on jonnyguru forum which person or site makes the best PSU reviews. Even there the answer will be Aris.

Fun fact, Aris (or as he's known around most places, crmaris) skulks in the JG.com forums, and will post thoughts and comments on the really impressive PSU designs, like ath AX1500i and the Seasonic PRIME.

I also agree that the AX1500 is the best PSU designed and built so far.. The ripple and regulation performance at 1500W, without using in-cable capacitors, at 80Plus Titanium levels of efficiency is truly outstanding. Before the AX1500i, I'm pretty sure only the ooold Antec SG-850 could produce numbers anywhere near as good.. discounting efficiency of course.

I want an AX1500i....

EDIT: Also, I have yet to see another PSU ship with threadlocked clips holding the switches to the heatsinks! Seriously, that thing is better built than freaking server PSUs!

 

[rtwjunkie]

The AX1500i has btw a even higher score.

Yes, from May 26, 2014. That is an eternity in the hardware world...2 and a half years ago. It also points to just how few PSU's Aris actually reviews, which makes them hard to use for purchasing comparisons.

 

[ZeDestructor]

Yes, from May 26, 2014. That is an eternity in the hardware world...2 and a half years ago. It also points to just how few PSU's Aris actually reviews, which makes them hard to use for purchasing comparisons.

His test setup and rating criteria haven't changed since 2014, so his reviews and scores are just as relevant as anything he publishes now. Also, he reviews for Tom's as well now, so check there as well for more content.

 

[rtwjunkie]

You both seem to have completely missed the point. Old review of old product, and not a lot of models tested since to say it is THE best. The sample is small enough it only points to it being the best of HIS sample of reviews. I give up; talking to the wall is easier.

 

[-The_Mask-]

Fun fact, Aris (or as he's known around most places, crmaris) skulks in the JG.com forums, and will post thoughts and comments on the really impressive PSU designs, like ath AX1500i and the Seasonic PRIME.

I also agree that the AX1500 is the best PSU designed and built so far.. The ripple and regulation performance at 1500W, without using in-cable capacitors, at 80Plus Titanium levels of efficiency is truly outstanding. Before the AX1500i, I'm pretty sure only the ooold Antec SG-850 could produce numbers anywhere near as good.. discounting efficiency of course.

I want an AX1500i....

EDIT: Also, I have yet to see another PSU ship with threadlocked clips holding the switches to the heatsinks! Seriously, that thing is better built than freaking server PSUs!

Thank you, I almost thought that know one at this forum had PSU knowledge.

You both seem to have completely missed the point. Old review of old product, and not a lot of models tested since to say it is THE best. The sample is small enough it only points to it being the best of HIS sample of reviews. I give up; talking to the wall is easier.

I guess, because a wall isn't gonna say that you're wrong.

 

[ZeDestructor]

You both seem to have completely missed the point. Old review of old product, and not a lot of models tested since to say it is THE best. The sample is small enough it only points to it being the best of HIS sample of reviews. I give up; talking to the wall is easier.

JG.com, [H]ardOCP (depite their IMO unwarranted bitching about <100V supply-related issues.. though I will give em props for confirming that that issue existed in retail units by buying and reviewing a retail example.. in 2015 too), Hardware Heaven, AT, Tom's, PCPer, ITOCP, KitGuru also all report very similar results to TPU's.

Sure it's 2 years old, but the design and part selection has most certainly not changed (remember the Kingston V300 debacle?), so the results should be just as relevant now as they were then. If you want a review now, you'll have to buy one and send it to Aris/whoever you prefer, cause Corsair is not sending out review samples of the AX1500i anymore. If I were upgrading my PSU to an AX1500i, I wouldn't mind sending it though OkW/Tazz and Aris, but I'm not, so you'll have to wait a bit longer I'm afraid.

 

[revin]

IIRC @crmaris only has 220v input from his country. JG use's 120v.
Both have excellent review's and are the go to for review's but the input voltage will produce very different scores/result's.
The lower voltage can uncover issue's that can be masked from higher input and visa versa as well as different control/testing equipment

 

[R-T-B]

Well that's not true, only quality caps that should last really long in all the AXi power supplies. It would be quite stupid to use bad caps in a PSU with 10 years warranty because otherwise you will get a return rate which will come close to the 100%. No company can take that.

FWIW, my lower wattage AXi had CapXon polymers looking at me all over through the grills.

 

[-The_Mask-]

IIRC @crmaris only has 220v input from his country. JG use's 120v.
Both have excellent review's and are the go to for review's but the input voltage will produce very different scores/result's.
The lower voltage can uncover issue's that can be masked from higher input and visa versa as well as different control/testing equipment

Aris his reviews posted on Tomshardware are with an input voltage of 115V.

FWIW, my lower wattage AXi had CapXon polymers looking at me all over through the grills.

Yes but that are polymers, nothing wrong with CapXon polymer caps.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I guess, because a wall isn't gonna say that you're wrong.

and where exactly am I wrong? The best he has reviewed is a 3 year old piece of hardware, which is part of a rather small sampling of multiple sized PSU's, so little continuity or ability to truly compare is present. There's not enough there to truly say it IS the best, right now. I'm not saying it isn't, but the data does not support your claim.

 

[ZeDestructor]

IIRC @crmaris only has 220v input from his country. JG use's 120v.
Both have excellent review's and are the go to for review's but the input voltage will produce very different scores/result's.
The lower voltage can uncover issue's that can be masked from higher input and visa versa as well as different control/testing equipment

Mostly it only affects the efficiency curve a tiny bit (higher voltage achieving higher efficiencies, which 80Plus appropriately raises for 230V testing), and input current limiting (which is what [H] slammed the AX1500i for). I live in 230V countries, and even if I were to move to the US, I'd get a 230V outlet run in for desktop and server purposes.

FWIW, my lower wattage AXi had CapXon polymers looking at me all over through the grills.

As @-The_Mask- said, it's a polymer, it's fine.

Besides, the capacitor plague was over 10 years ago now.. everyone has new tech across entire ranges now. End result is that OkW and Tazz no longer score against tier 1 Chinese caps being used, and instead go back to looking at specs, thermals and warranties. Of course, there is still truly shit-tier stuff out there, but CapXon really isn't one of em. I mean, I've seen Delta and Flextronics use em in server-grade PSUs.. there has to be something decent there..

and where exactly am I wrong? The best he has reviewed is a 3 year old piece of hardware, which is part of a rather small sampling of multiple sized PSU's, so little continuity or ability to truly compare is present. There's not enough there to truly say it IS the best, right now. I'm not saying it isn't, but the data does not support your claim.

Reviews take time. JG.com (the man who is known to get a shit PSU, and blow it up) does one a week, and that's super-prolific. As for Aris' methodology, I'd say that his testing gear and methods are the best out there... I mean nobody else does full-power-range ripple measurements and then puts it on a lovely colour-map for our leisurely perusal.

As for the best being 3 years old, that's more a statement on the industry than his smaller sample size. I mean, what else is there that compares?

EVGA G2/P2/T2 (and the Superflowers they're based on)? In-cable capacitors to drop ripple by 20mV to keep up with the AX1500i.
Seasonic PRIME? Nowhere near as high-capacity, somewhat messy power-up curves.
Antec HCP Platinum? Not as good ripple, and only platinum, and only hits 1300W.
Andyson N700 (and variants)? Nobody reputable is using em. (Raidmax is, but it's Raidmax.... Nobody sane wants to buy Raidmax regardless of how good innards are). Also only 700W.
Cooler Master MasterWatt? Poorer ripple and regulation, despite in-cable caps.. and limited to 1200W up until recently.

None of those besides the MasterWatt have any form of software control either, so there's that too in the AX1500i's favour.

Really, right now the AX1500i holds the crown in terms of performance, regardless of size/capacity. I suspect Corsair won't update the AXi line until a true out and out competitor shows up either.. or they get bored. That's possible too...

 

[R-T-B]

They came close, but not close enough. Also the AX1500i is a much more advanced platform with digital signal processors, while the Seasonic Prime Titanium is still just a fully analog power supply.

Digital schmitigal. I'm sorry, but if performance is the same it's a buzzword. Might as well store my electricity in the "cloud" while it's at it.

As @-The_Mask- said, it's a polymer, it's fine.

I never said it wasn't. I said it was "shitty (by premium standards)" I loved my AXi but I don't consider them in the same league as the Prime series sub-1000W.

but CapXon really isn't one of em

CapXon is like the definitive shit-tier electrolytic, but their polymers are ok, at least as good if not better than any Japanese Electrolytic.

Seasonic PRIME? Nowhere near as high-capacity, somewhat messy power-up curves.

I'd argue the messy power-up curves are offset by the huge hold-up time, but that's maybe just because my electric sucks.

Of course, this isn't what I intended to be arguing. I expected more opposition to the idea that Seasonic's line needed updating in the first place, since their fanboyism is quite rife. Interesting how this conversation went down.

 

[eidairaman1]

Digital schmitigal. I'm sorry, but if performance is the same it's a buzzword. Might as well store my electricity in the "cloud" while it's at it.



I never said it wasn't. I said it was "shitty (by premium standards)" I loved my AXi but I don't consider them in the same league as the Prime series sub-1000W.



CapXon is like the definitive shit-tier electrolytic, but their polymers are ok, at least as good if not better than any Japanese Electrolytic.



I'd argue the messy power-up curves are offset by the huge hold-up time, but that's maybe just because my electric sucks.

Of course, this isn't what I intended to be arguing. I expected more opposition to the idea that Seasonic's line needed updating in the first place, since their fanboyism is quite rife. Interesting how this conversation went down.

In order for a company to stay in business they have to release stuff once in a while- that is how I see it. Over 1000 watts is considered Overkill- it just depends on what your needs are as a PSU only dishes out what is needed for a machine. Seasonic has been doing Power Supplies Since 1975 so they have the experience.

You are right about Digitial Schmigital- too. I've seen Analog units walk over ones claimed to be "Digital"

 

[ZeDestructor]

Digital schmitigal. I'm sorry, but if performance is the same it's a buzzword. Might as well store my electricity in the "cloud" while it's at it.

The thing is, it took 2 more years before the analog kit properly matched em.. at half the power. The digital DSP-based design clearly has at least some performance benefits over the pure analog design. This really echoes of the EFI vs mechanical injection debate, where electronics are just faster than analog kit.

I never said it wasn't. I said it was "shitty (by premium standards)" I loved my AXi but I don't consider them in the same league as the Prime series sub-1000W.

Other way round for me. A big part of it is that I consider CapXon a globally tier 1.5 capacitor maker (a tiny bit behind the Japanese). The PRIME loses out in one test, and barely holds up ion the rest while being half the power. Impressive achievement, don't get me wrong, but IMO not enough to dethrone the AX1500i as the absolute top dog in performance

CapXon is like the definitive shit-tier electrolytic, but their polymers are ok, at least as good if not better than any Japanese Electrolytic.

Some 10 year old CapXons in an old switch I have disagree with you there. Also, you clearly haven't heard of such strange companies like Fuhhjjyuu, or CapSan. Now, those, those are truly shit caps that nobody will touch. Delta, Flex, AcBel and such on the other hand will happily pick CapXon for server-grade PSUs, that often run hotter, longer and under higher loads than desktop bits.

I'd argue the messy power-up curves are offset by the huge hold-up time, but that's maybe just because my electric sucks.

When it shows up in multiple tests, it's probably design rather than local shenanigans. Also, huge hold-up time would typically tend towards cleaner standby to on +12V powerup, but that's where the jaggies show up, which suggests something funny hapenning with the controller

Of course, this isn't what I intended to be arguing. I expected more opposition to the idea that Seasonic's line needed updating in the first place, since their fanboyism is quite rife. Interesting how this conversation went down.

Hey, I like arguing tech and results, not brand. Brands are boring.

Personally, as a Corsair-branded-Seasonic owner (AX850 - Seasonic X-Gold 850 guts), I want more. The PRIME is an impressive step forward from the old KM2/3 Gold/Plat platforms, but it needs a revision or two more to iron out it's very few flaws. And a price drop so I can ram it down more people's throats when recommending PSUs ( ), cause as awesome as the AX1500i is (and as useful as it would be for my plans), it's just not practical for your average 450W TDP gaming machine.

 

[-The_Mask-]

You are right about Digitial Schmigital- too. I've seen Analog units walk over ones claimed to be "Digital"

There is a difference in power supplies that claim to be digital and only use a USB controller and a power supplies that actually use a full set of digital signal processors in every stage of the power supply.

I'd argue the messy power-up curves are offset by the huge hold-up time, but that's maybe just because my electric sucks.

Well that explains it, but why not listen to people who do have electrical knowledge? Instead of posting silly things.

 

[R-T-B]

Well that explains it, but why not listen to people who do have electrical knowledge? Instead of posting silly things.

I do listen to people with electrical knowledge. Quite a few reviews back up my claims. In particular they tie (or even beat depending on test) axi in load regulation and ripple.

What have I said that's silly?

FWIW, CapXon is still held in very poor esteem at badcaps.net. It's the worst of the "big cap" makers at any rate.

 

[ZeDestructor]

I do listen to people with electrical knowledge. Quite a few reviews back up my claims. In particular they tie (or even beat depending on test) axi in load regulation and ripple.

Do keep in mind that a lot of those regulate tighter and hit higher efficiency by allowing the remote end to do 30-50mV ripple, and smooth that at the remote end using in-cable capacitors. To me, it's just not as impressive a feat of engineering as seeing the AX1500i do <15mV on all rails at 1500W load without said in-cable caps.

What have I said that's silly?

As far as I can tell nothing... *shrug*

FWIW, CapXon is still held in very poor esteem at badcaps.net. It's the worst of the "big cap" makers at any rate.

Ahh, old memes that never get retired...

I prefer keeping an eye at what servers and other enterprise-grade kit and such use myself, since a lot of those are designed for 7-15 years of continuous loaded running. Sometimes they mess up and fail, but that's incredibly rare - the likes of Delta and Flex Ltd (formerly Flextronics) know what they're doing with their designs, and they're using CapXon caps with perfectly good results.

 

[Hood]

Most don't need more then 450W because that is already enough for building a high-end single GPU gaming machine.

Maybe so, but with 7 drives (2 are PCIe), 7 fans, custom LED lighting, a single power-hungry GPU, an overclocked 4790K, and various peripherals, my power requirements are closer to 700-750 watts (with a little headroom for capacitor ageing/future drive upgrades). Your 450 watt figure would be fine for 2 drives, locked CPU, 2 or 3 fans, and a midrange GPU - but I wouldn't call such a system "high end".

 

[deu]

About time. They were falling behind fast.

You cant fall behind if you are the best always...

 

[rtwjunkie]

You cant fall behind if you are the best always...

You have to constantly forge ahead to remain the best. Seasonic hasn't done much forging ahead until now.

In other words, no matter how far ahead you go. If you stop like the hare did, the tortoise will pass you by and win.

 

[Smanci]

You cant fall behind if you are the best always...

Absolutely true. That one area they are not falling behind in is the amount of nearly religious customers.