Sony PlayStation 4 "Orbis" Kits Shipping to Developers, Powered by AMD A10 APU

BigMack70 · Nov 2, 2012

_JP_ said:
^That. Considering a value that only is present for a maximum of a second is incredibly relevant for the overall gaming experience.

Do you even nVidia?
Since when does PhysX work on Radeon cards?

Huh? Have you read anything I've been posting? Doesn't sound like it...

I simply posted a link showing that having PhysX disabled for Batman:AC doesn't suddenly give AMD cards a 60fps min. framerate in that game.

_JP_ · Nov 2, 2012

brandonwh64 said:
For ATI/AMD GPU's physx works on the CPU

I know that. But he's talking as if didn't and the impact was irrelevant.

brandonwh64 · Nov 2, 2012

_JP_ said:
I know that. But he's talking as if didn't and the impact was irrelevant.

Ahhh I see. Yea it does impact ATI like with BL2 especially.

SIGSEGV · Nov 2, 2012

BigMack70 said:
Did you even check my link? :shadedshu

No PhysX doesn't magically make a 79xx card hit 60fps minimum framerates. Without PhysX, at 1080p, that's a 7970 getting 28fps minimum.

Obviously PhysX increases visuals and matters, but in the context of this discussion, it's irrelevant - PhysX or no, you're not getting 60fps min fps on Batman AC with maxed out settings.

it's obviously you still think that a next gen console machines will performs (or render) better if their detail hardware specification is close enough with currently a high end pc machine.

TheMailMan78 · Nov 2, 2012

BigMack70 said:
Did you even check my link? :shadedshu

No PhysX doesn't magically make a 79xx card hit 60fps minimum framerates. Without PhysX, at 1080p, that's a 7970 getting 28fps minimum.

Obviously PhysX increases visuals and matters, but in the context of this discussion, it's irrelevant - PhysX or no, you're not getting 60fps min fps on Batman AC with maxed out settings.

I got 60+ FPS with a 570 with no PhysX and a 7950 is a lot faster. Your link is irrelevant.

sergionography · Nov 2, 2012

MxPhenom 216 said:
You guys forget that with consoles developers are able to get 100% usage out of the hardware it has because developers only have to code for one configuration so they are able to utilize the hardware 100% with 100% efficiency. They are able to push hardware in the consoles a bit differently then on a normal desktop PC.

not to mention the dev kit is for game companies to start developing compatible games for the upcomming hardwar, so the final spec might be different but we now know the recipe
so even if sony use steamroller instead with much bigger integrated gpus the compatibility in terms of coding will be pretty much the same just wont take full advantage of the hardware for the next gen of games.

JNUKZ · Nov 2, 2012

PS4 it´s supposed to run games at 4k resolution. But to be honest I think is almost impossible.

BigMack70 · Nov 2, 2012

_JP_ said:
I know that. But he's talking as if didn't and the impact was irrelevant.

Nope. That's the 3rd or 4th time you've completely missed my point even when I've explained it.

Mailman claimed that my contention about a 7950 not doing 60fps minimum framerates in Batman AC was irrelevant because it has PhysX.

I then argued, and posted a link supporting, that PhysX doesn't matter on that count - you're not going to get 60fps min. framerate with or without PhysX.

The fact stands - if you want 60fps minimum framerates on every game with max settings, you need at least two GPUs.

Now, you might say "that's an irrelevant point nobody cares about minimum framerate and who cares if you have to disable some AA in one or two games". OK fine I'm not going to argue that. Some people will care and some won't. But ticking the boxes next to each of the 3 criteria: 60fps minimum fps, maxed settings, all games - that requires more power than any single GPU has to offer.

Heck, it *technically* requires more power than any TWO GPUs have to offer if you're going to count something like The Witcher 2's ubersampling mode. And some poorly optimized games like Batman AC I'm not even sure if it's possible to get 60fps minimum fps there with max settings either.

TheMailMan78 · Nov 2, 2012

BigMack70 said:
Nope. That's the 3rd or 4th time you've completely missed my point even when I've explained it.

Mailman claimed that my contention about a 7950 not doing 60fps minimum framerates in Batman AC was irrelevant because it has PhysX.

I then argued, and posted a link supporting, that PhysX doesn't matter on that count - you're not going to get 60fps min. framerate with or without PhysX.

The fact stands - if you want 60fps minimum framerates on every game with max settings, you need at least two GPUs.

Now, you might say "that's an irrelevant point nobody cares about minimum framerate and who cares if you have to disable some AA in one or two games". OK fine I'm not going to argue that. Some people will care and some won't. But ticking the boxes next to each of the 3 criteria: 60fps minimum fps, maxed settings, all games - that requires more power than any single GPU has to offer.

Heck, it *technically* requires more power than any TWO GPUs have to offer if you're going to count something like The Witcher 2's ubersampling mode. And some poorly optimized games like Batman AC I'm not even sure if it's possible to get 60fps minimum fps there with max settings either.

A 7950 will get better then a MINIMUM of 60FPS without PhysX. My 570 does.

WhiteLotus · Nov 2, 2012

PS3 has Steam right?

Think I might leave the PC gaming pretty soon. Well perhaps in a few years.

JNUKZ · Nov 2, 2012

WhiteLotus said:
PS3 has Steam right?

Think I might leave the PC gaming pretty soon. Well perhaps in a few years.

No it doesn´t, I own a ps3 and only have psn

Easy Rhino · Nov 2, 2012

none of you have a point. sony will just screw you over with ps4 like they did on ps3. stop arguing about something you wont buy and shouldn't buy!

TheMailMan78 · Nov 2, 2012

Easy Rhino said:
none of you have a point. sony will just screw you over with ps4 like they did on ps3. stop arguing about something you wont buy and shouldn't buy!

Sony didn't screw me over.

BigMack70 · Nov 2, 2012

TheMailMan78 said:
A 7950 will get better then a MINIMUM of 60FPS without PhysX. My 570 does.

Yeah that makes total sense since HardOCP gets a minimum fps in the 20s for the 7970 GHz edition maxed without PhysX. Very plausible. Definitely sounds legit. 12.11 drivers probably give a 100%+ boost compared to 12.9.

:rolleyes:

Solaris17 · Nov 2, 2012

Easy Rhino said:
none of you have a point. sony will just screw you over with ps4 like they did on ps3. stop arguing about something you wont buy and shouldn't buy!

they didnt screw me over and you had a thread when you got yours. your just mad. Didnt you just get on the mac bandwagon? anything that doesnt have an apple logo on it in th comming months isnt going to be worth it to buy to you.

TheMailMan78 · Nov 2, 2012

BigMack70 said:
Yeah that makes total sense since HardOCP gets a minimum fps in the 20s for the 7970 GHz edition maxed without PhysX. Very plausible. Definitely sounds legit. 12.11 drivers probably give a 100%+ boost compared to 12.9.

HardOCP is not TPU. We know how to review and test hardware properly. Look at OUR benches.

Solaris17 said:
they didnt screw me over and you had a thread when you got yours. your just mad. Didnt you just get on the mac bandwagon? anything that doesnt have an apple logo on it in th comming months isnt going to be worth it to buy to you.

No hes mad they got rid of Linux support. One thing I have learned about Easy Rhino is he will install Linux on a toaster oven if he can......and if he can't that toaster oven is garbage!

BigMack70 · Nov 2, 2012

TPU benches have no AA and don't measure minimum framerate for Batman AC and so aren't relevant to what I'm claiming one way or another.

If you don't like HardOCP, go take a look at the Batman AC chart for overclock3d as another example. See any cards with 60fps minimum framerate? Nope. (I don't know exactly what settings they're using)

I've not seen ANY benchmarks of maxed Batman AC, with or without showing PhysX, that show minimum fps above 60.

Random Murderer · Nov 2, 2012

btarunr said:
The design goal is to be able to play games 1920 x 1080 pixels resolution, with 60 Hz refresh rate, and with the ability to run stereo 3D at 60 Hz.

1080p still? Didn't Sony say they were working on a 2k+ capable system less than a year ago?

TheMailMan78 · Nov 2, 2012

BigMack70 said:
TPU benches have no AA and don't measure minimum framerate for Batman AC and so aren't relevant to what I'm claiming one way or another.

If you don't like HardOCP, go take a look at the Batman AC chart for overclock3d as another example. See any cards with 60fps minimum framerate? Nope. (I don't know exactly what settings they're using)

I've not seen ANY benchmarks of maxed Batman AC, with or without showing PhysX, that show minimum fps above 60.

Well believe what you like. You have several users here that can do it. If you don't think a PS4 can't do it with DEDICATED hardware that's double the specs of the current system on a game designed for the LAST SYSTEM, who am I to argue with such intellect.

BigMack70 · Nov 2, 2012

TheMailMan78 said:
Well believe what you like. You have several users here that can do it. If you don't think a PS4 can't do it with DEDICATED hardware that's double the specs of the current system on a game designed for the LAST SYSTEM, who am I to argue with such intellect.

Several users here who can do what, exactly? Use magic to achieve something benchmarks show not to be possible?

Also, just to be picky... 1080p 60fps is more than 4x as demanding than what current consoles do, which is ~720p ~30fps.

Darkleoco · Nov 2, 2012

BigMack70 said:
Several users here who can do what, exactly? Use magic to achieve something benchmarks show not to be possible?

Also, just to be picky... 1080p 60fps is more than 4x as demanding than what current consoles do, which is ~720p ~30fps.

Because the benchmarks you are using HAVE to be the supreme authority on what is possible because they support your viewpoint am I right? :laugh:

TheMailMan78 · Nov 2, 2012

BigMack70 said:
Several users here who can do what, exactly? Use magic to achieve something benchmarks show not to be possible?

Also, just to be picky... 1080p 60fps is more than 4x as demanding than what current consoles do, which is ~720p ~30fps.

Of course because logic would dictate you would need 4x more powerful hardware to reach those kind of results. Never mind hardware and software optimization that's happen over the past 6 almost 7 years. Your logic is infallible. Perfect even. Like a liquid sphere in space.

Easy Rhino · Nov 2, 2012

Solaris17 said:
they didnt screw me over and you had a thread when you got yours. your just mad. Didnt you just get on the mac bandwagon? anything that doesnt have an apple logo on it in th comming months isnt going to be worth it to buy to you.

dude, i loved my ps3 when it had all the features that i paid for. i am not on a mac bandwagon, i happen to really like macbooks.

TheMailMan78 said:
No hes mad they got rid of Linux support. One thing I have learned about Easy Rhino is he will install Linux on a toaster oven if he can......and if he can't that toaster oven is garbage!

yes, when you buy a product for its advertised capability and they remove that capability then i will get mad.

anybody who purchases the PS4 deserves to get screwed. :nutkick:

BigMack70 · Nov 2, 2012

My question: If my "viewpoint" is wrong, why are there no benchmarks that show that?

Also... my logic on the "4x more powerful" note is infallible...
1080p = 2.2x as many pixels as 720p
60fps = 2x as many frames as 30fps

So, to render something at 60fps in 1080p as opposed to 720p in 30fps, you need to crunch numbers more than 4x as fast i.e. your hardware needs to be 4x as powerful.

TheMailMan78 · Nov 2, 2012

Easy Rhino said:
dude, i loved my ps3 when it had all the features that i paid for. i am not on a mac bandwagon, i happen to really like macbooks.

yes, when you buy a product for its advertised capability and they remove that capability then i will get mad.

anybody who purchases the PS4 deserves to get screwed.

If I were you I would be mad also about the Linux thing. :toast:

However with that being said you are not the average user. Most people are very happy with the PS3.

BigMack70 said:
My question: If my "viewpoint" is wrong, why are there no benchmarks that show that?

Also... my logic on the "4x more powerful" note is infallible...
1080p = 2.2x as many pixels as 720p
60fps = 2x as many frames as 30fps

So, to render something at 60fps in 1080p as opposed to 720p in 30fps, you need to crunch numbers more than 4x as fast i.e. your hardware needs to be 4x as powerful.

No. It would need to work 4x more efficient. Something that's been done over the past 7 YEARS.

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Sony PlayStation 4 "Orbis" Kits Shipping to Developers, Powered by AMD A10 APU

BigMack70

_JP_

brandonwh64

Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

SIGSEGV

TheMailMan78

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sergionography

JNUKZ

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BigMack70

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WhiteLotus

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Easy Rhino

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