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Spurred by M1 Performance, Apple Doubles Shipments of Mac Computers

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I have no opinion on it's performance, will never buy an Apple laptop due their egregious pricing in Australia, but I think it was a masterstroke from them to dump Intel and Intel only have themselves to blame with successive generations of drip fed updates, high prices, and no innovation. Alder Lake in 2018 may have saved them or at least kept them in the game for several more years. Anyway, will be interesting to see the M1x performance. Seeing Intel squeezed now not just by AMD but Apple is great news.
 
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As a hardware enthusiast who like to test out new technology, earlier this year I thought I wanted to give the MacBook Air M1 a spin after hearing the rave reviews. After 2 days, of using it, I sold off my Windows base laptop. While there are a lot of Apple haters, the M1 chip is really a game changer, especially so when it comes to performance vs battery life. In my normal light usage surfing net and watching Youtube videos, the battery just dropped a few % after an hour of usage when I first tested. In fact when it was fully charged, I lost 2% battery after 1.5 hours of usage. Compared to my ThinkPad and Ideapad, the battery would have dropped by no less than 15%. And because there are no fan on it, there is no fan noise and you can use the laptop anywhere without having to worry about blocking the bottom vents causing overheating. MacOS is not good for games, but for games that run on it, it can run the game smoothly while still being passively cooled, where the fan will be roaring away in a Windows base laptop. Which could explain why these are selling so well. But if one games a lot, then best to stick with a Windows system for best compatibility.
 
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Apple may have struck gold by going with its own cpu architecture. Unlike AMD and intel, Apple is vertically interegrated, and its cpu division has only one customer: Apple.

Apple makes the OS, the kernel, the m1 SOC, and the final product: the mac/iPhone/iPad. It takes a lot of courage and talent to be vertically integrated, but it’s paying off as Apple can deeply integrate its OS and its cpu. I do hope AMD and Intel continue to innovate and bring even more performance increases to x86.

Courage isn't the right word, money is. It takes money, not courage.

You are correct, Apple CPUs only have one customer: Apple. That's also a huge disadvantage. If you have an extremely competitive product and you restrict it to only being sold with your products (which for apple inherently appeal to a very specific niche) you are loosing out on a ton of potential revenue. In addition, it also means sales of this processor are entirely dependent on the other parts of it's ecosystem from the Operating system, to the available apps, to the marketing, to the other hardware components. For windows you can simply swap out an innumerable number of parts. For apple though, launch a product with a flawed motherboard design for example isn't as easy to fix and it affect everyone who purchase that product.

For me, Apple doesn't have the right games, Apps, or hardware so it's irrelevant how good their CPU is as I will never be given the choice to use it with something that works for me.

Last, I very much doubt the M1 chip resulted in a significant increase in sales. That very likely was the pandemic. Most people I know who own apple laptops own them for the brand and sometimes app ecosystem. I have never heard someone say they purchased it for the processing power.
 
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Courage isn't the right word, money is. It takes money, not courage.

You are correct, Apple CPUs only have one customer: Apple. That's also a huge disadvantage. If you have an extremely competitive product and you restrict it to only being sold with your products (which for apple inherently appeal to a very specific niche) you are loosing out on a ton of potential revenue. In addition, it also means sales of this processor are entirely dependent on the other parts of it's ecosystem from the Operating system, to the available apps, to the marketing, to the other hardware components. For windows you can simply swap out an innumerable number of parts. For apple though, launch a product with a flawed motherboard design for example isn't as easy to fix and it affect everyone who purchase that product.

For me, Apple doesn't have the right games, Apps, or hardware so it's irrelevant how good their CPU is as I will never be given the choice to use it with something that works for me.

Last, I very much doubt the M1 chip resulted in a significant increase in sales. That very likely was the pandemic. Most people I know who own apple laptops own them for the brand and sometimes app ecosystem. I have never heard someone say they purchased it for the processing power.
If all it takes is money to be a vertically integrated computer manufacturer, then why hasn’t any other company done it thus far ? It takes talent to write an operating system kernel with preemptive multitasking and to design a SOC with cpu, gpu, neural engine, and an integrated thundebolt controller.

Also, ever since Apple launched m1, Mac revenue has surged 70 percent. Apple just announced that during its fiscal second quarter that ended March 27, the Mac business reached an all-time quarterly record of $9.1 billion. Yeah overall increased demand for computers during the pandemic might be part of the increase in Mac revenue, but other factors include the insane battery life of m1, how cool the m1 systems run (compared to their intel predecessors), and the performance increase relative to the predecessors of the low-end MacBook Air/Pro and Mac mini. My sister’s m1 MacBook gets over 16 hours of battery life. Customers are getting a better bang for the buck.

Unlike us enthusiasts, many consumers don’t care about modularity and upgradability. They just want a solution that works well out of the box. And m1 does that well.

All that being said, I’m just admiring the technology in m1 and the audacity to leave x86 behind. I’m not aware of any other intel customer (Dell, HP, Razer, Lenovo, etc) abandoning x86 and delivering their own cpu platform. Apple did, and it’s fascinating to me.

But I wholeheartedly agree that Apple has its quirks and some things I don’t like. Like a lack of modularity, lack of AAA games, forced obsolescence of perfectly working Intel macs, and so on. It’s by no means a perfect company.
 
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That's part of it, obviously. What makes it impressive for me is how in some workloads, x86 apps running through Apple's Rosetta translator actually run faster than they natively do on Intel CPUs.
This is what can be achieved when the programmers do more then select -o3 to optimize the code.

As a pc person since inception I hate apple products. To be fair though I haven't used any in a really long time. I try and stay away from China stuff because of their human rights and "re-education" camps. Sometimes you can't help it but slave labor to build exotic products for us so everyone gets rich off their backs doesn't jive with me. I don't care about money. Money is less important than people to me. Some people don't care and that's their right.
I used apple products all through the 90's and early 2000's. I switched when they stopped supporting PowerPC. What makes me hesitant is that Apple could turn around next week and decide that the profit margins on M1 are too small and drop the product. They have done it three times in the past. I have always understood that the Apple Tax held an implication that you will get more then the typical 4.5 years out of a device. Their products do last but the company will throw its users under the bus if it thinks it can make a buck.
 
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Another crytpo advertisement?

Unlike AMD and intel, Apple is vertically interegrated, and its cpu division has only one customer: Apple.
That "vertical integration" sure helped Intel's fab business, cough.

Native x86 getting outclassed by software layer translation of x86 on a RISC SoC. It's not all about the nanometers.
Where are you getting these crazy ideas, friend?
(outdated AND SMALLER) 4800u, with lower power consumption beats 5nm M1 "goodness" of Apple native vs native.


1623827268907.png


Apple's move is driven largely by greediness, those sweet margins of selling a dirt cheap chips for x86's price.
 
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M1 chip is really a game changer, especially so when it comes to performance vs battery life.
Bovine feces.
It does offer neither unseen performance (is pretty mediocre at it for a chip of that size and on 5nm) nor power consumption (even 5800h in a gaming notebook can do 10+ hours on battery).

I've seen a number of freelancers buying apple device for build quality reasons.
I haven't seen a single of them being excited about having to mess with M1.

Or anyone who would say "hey, now that Apple's margins on notebooks rose, let me buy a new notebook I do not need, just because I'm so easily influenced by nonsensical advertisement and that M1 was shoveled into my throat gazillion of times"


Won't even bother clicking, but thanks for the effort.
 
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Bovine feces.
It does offer neither unseen performance (is pretty mediocre at it for a chip of that size and on 5nm) nor power consumption (even 5800h in a gaming notebook can do 10+ hours on battery).

I've seen a number of freelancers buying apple device for build quality reasons.
I haven't seen a single of them being excited about having to mess with M1.

Or anyone who would say "hey, now that Apple's margins on notebooks rose, let me buy a new notebook I do not need, just because I'm so easily influenced by nonsensical advertisement and that M1 was shoveled into my throat gazillion of times"



Won't even bother clicking, but thanks for the effort.
Show me which gaming laptop that does 10+ hours on battery, and not just leaving it inactive. I am watching video on Youtube and surfing net at the same time, and do be mindful of the battery capacity difference. Whether yo u like it or not, x86 processors generally cannot compete in terms of battery life against an ARM device. The latter is generally weaker in processing power, but I've found nothing that I do that the M1 cannot keep up or do better.

And to correct, I did not buy it because of the advertisement. It was based on reviews that I read/ watched, and my own 2 days of testing that I decided to keep it. I am not a fan of Apple, but the product is good, and so objectively worth keeping/ using. My gaming system is still based on Windows.
 
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If all it takes is money to be a vertically integrated computer manufacturer, then why hasn’t any other company done it thus far ? It takes talent to write an operating system kernel with preemptive multitasking and to design a SOC with cpu, gpu, neural engine, and an integrated thundebolt controller.
You really really didn't need to mention the fact that there is an integrated thunderbolt controller. That's like saying you've made a cold fusion generator with a fancy cupholder installed on the side, the cupholder being insignificant to the scale of the prior listed items.

Why don't more companies do it? Not many compaies are worth a trillion dollars plus.
Also, ever since Apple launched m1, Mac revenue has surged 70 percent. Apple just announced that during its fiscal second quarter that ended March 27, the Mac business reached an all-time quarterly record of $9.1 billion. Yeah overall increased demand for computers during the pandemic might be part of the increase in Mac revenue, but other factors include the insane battery life of m1, how cool the m1 systems run (compared to their intel predecessors), and the performance increase relative to the predecessors of the low-end MacBook Air/Pro and Mac mini. My sister’s m1 MacBook gets over 16 hours of battery life. Customers are getting a better bang for the buck.

You are actually just parroting exactly what TIm Cook said on the conference call but Apple in fact does not provide data that specifically shows the M1 is the reason for the increase:


It's stated but the provided data is the same as any other quarter. Of course, Apple will always tout to investors that it's their products when in reality anyone looking at the market or Apple's provided data can see you'd have to be inept to not being selling record numbers right now.

16 hours of battery life is not realistic, reviews have it pined at an average of 10.5, which is certainly achievable for x86 laptops without a discrete GPU.

Mind you it still starts at a $1,000 USD so bang for your buck would only be in comparison to other apple products.

Unlike us enthusiasts, many consumers don’t care about modularity and upgradability. They just want a solution that works well out of the box. And m1 does that well.

All that being said, I’m just admiring the technology in m1 and the audacity to leave x86 behind. I’m not aware of any other intel customer (Dell, HP, Razer, Lenovo, etc) abandoning x86 and delivering their own cpu platform. Apple did, and it’s fascinating to me.

But I wholeheartedly agree that Apple has its quirks and some things I don’t like. Like a lack of modularity, lack of AAA games, forced obsolescence of perfectly working Intel macs, and so on. It’s by no means a perfect company.

That really depends which apps you are running. If you are using a lot of x86 apps, you are looking at an average performance hit of 30%. Given the emulation layer, there's always the chance that an app can take a much larger performance hit at random as well. Apple made the bet that most of it's customers either a) just use basic apps b) won't care about having the best performance in x86 apps anyways. It will take a long time for things to fully transition over and many legacy apps will always be x86. It's fine if you are using the product casually but if you are doing anything serious I would not move over to the platform until extensive vetting is done. I'm not sure I'd call this out of character for Apple, they did remove the headphone jack and DAC from their phones in the name of "progress" so they are willing to take jumps like this because people will buy their products regardless. Then again they did manage to sell people $20 wireless earbuds for $200. As an audiophile myself, the sound output from the Airpods is worse then a $36 pair of Superlux budget cans.

Native x86 getting outclassed by software layer translation of x86 on a RISC SoC. It's not all about the nanometers.

That are some misconceptions about the M1's performance: https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-measurements-x86-versus-apple-m1-performance

First is that Apple M1 does not in fact outclass X86. Desktop X86 blows the M1 away. AMD laptops in the same price range do as well, with over 30% more multi-threaded performance. The only time the M1 is going to beat an equally price X86 laptop performance wise is if the X86 laptop is either not plugged in or just bad. At $1,000 though you typically can get a decent graphics card in your laptop as well though, something that's going to vastly outperform what the M1 can do. The M1 is a big step up but let's not misrepresent things here. The M1 has amazing performance per watt but it doesn't take the performance crown.

Second is that Apple M1 prefers 1 thread per core while X86 prefers 2 threads per core. Tests need to take this into consideration.

Last is that X86 can utilize advances instructions whereas ARM (like the M1) can only utilize simple instructions. In applications that utilize things like AVX or SSE the X86 processor will almost always be faster. I don't know how Apple is emulating programs that do utilize those features but I imagine the emulator is telling the X86 software to use the code path with those features disabled.

There are many more considerations to comparing X86 vs M1 than simple X86 vs X86. If it fair to use AVX? Is it fair to only use 1 thread per core? Is the code path for the program equally as optimized for both platforms? Ect. That aside, what I do know is that Geekbench is and has always been utter trash and people should stop using it as any meaningful measure of performance.

Show me which gaming laptop that does 10+ hours on battery, and not just leaving it inactive. I am watching video on Youtube and surfing net at the same time, and do be mindful of the battery capacity difference. Whether yo u like it or not, x86 processors generally cannot compete in terms of battery life against an ARM device. The latter is generally weaker in processing power, but I've found nothing that I do that the M1 cannot keep up or do better.

And to correct, I did not buy it because of the advertisement. It was based on reviews that I read/ watched, and my own 2 days of testing that I decided to keep it. I am not a fan of Apple, but the product is good, and so objectively worth keeping/ using. My gaming system is still based on Windows.

It really depends as many X86 devices aren't designed to be run off battery 24/7 whereas ARM device are. There are certainly X86 devices with good battery life. That said, it all isn't 100% down to the hardweare. The software plays a part too and windows doesn't have as many power saving features as most ARM based Operating Systems do. You have to come into this with the acknowledgement that most X86 devices are designed for performance first and foremost. You simply won't find a gaming laptop that'll do 10+ hour at a good performance level, ARM or otherwise. That said, Nvidia and AMD do offer more performance per watt in regards to graphics than Apple's M1.
 
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Show me which gaming laptop that does 10+ hours on battery
All AMD Advantage laptops (at the very least).


generally cannot compete in terms of battery life against an ARM device
A myth. We see EPICs beating ARM multicres at perf/watt, so uh, oh, you were saying?
 
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I always said that ARM is the future, due to the simple fact that is not a closed and ancient tech like x86 is.
 
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Won't even bother clicking, but thanks for the effort.
It’s just your words edited to show that the 4800u beats the m1 in 3/9 of the benchmarks you posted; you’re welcome!

Haters gonna hate I guess :shrug:
 
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It’s just your words edited to show that the 4800u beats the m1 in 3/9 of the benchmarks you posted; you’re welcome!
You have stated that M1 wipes the floor with x86 chips "even when software emuing".
You were shown OUTDATED and SMALLER chip CONSUMING LESS POWER on OLDER fab beating M1 in NATIVE code.

The problem with arguing with certain kind of people is they do not realize how embarrassing their "arguments" are.

Are you ok, hater?
 
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I actually didn’t say anything of the sort... I think you have me confused with another user.

The problem with arguing with haters is that they’re irrational, don’t know who they’re yelling at at any given moment, or why, and can’t read the article they’re referring to/a basic bar graph that contradicts their claims :shrug:

You must realize that the (1st gen) m1 beat the 4800u you’re referring to in 6/9 of the benchmarks you posted, right? That’s why 6/9 of its bars are longer in that chart :love:
 
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I always said that ARM is the future, due to the simple fact that is not a closed and ancient tech like x86 is.

Closed and ancient, you mean Apple right? xD
 
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Another crytpo advertisement?


That "vertical integration" sure helped Intel's fab business, cough.


Where are you getting these crazy ideas, friend?
(outdated AND SMALLER) 4800u, with lower power consumption beats 5nm M1 "goodness" of Apple native vs native.


View attachment 204108

Apple's move is driven largely by greediness, those sweet margins of selling a dirt cheap chips for x86's price.

So look, here's the deal. When you make the comparison of x86 vs M1 you have to remember three simple things:

1. Intel is the main competition for M1 since it's the only other option for new Mac systems. You can choose any color you like as long as it's Intel; hence the message you replied to was itself a response about intel. AMD doesn't get chips in Macs, AMD chips barely run useful macOS apps properly since nobody fixed their virtualization issues forcing fallback methods and clunky workarounds.

2. Macs are built around specific workflows that are important to their primary customer base. When you're drawing a comparison of chip performance in a Mac, you generally use the library of Mac workflows that people actually buy the machines for.

3. We were addressing Rosetta2; the software translation of x86_64 to run on M1, and its performance. Not M1 directly. Performance of applications in Rosetta2 (I.E. x86_64 applications recompiled for RISC with some JIT interactions) was the main concern here, since again that's the context of the message you responded to.

Your own link to Anandtech shows M1 beating out Tiger Lake mobile handily (and sometimes the 5950X) and even states Rosetta2 to be 70-80% of AArch64 native, handily still outpacing Tiger Lake in places (541.leela from SPEC2017 for a cherry picked example, others as well if you look at the Rosetta2 page.) So let me ask you what do you think would have been in those M1 Macs if Intel had provided the chips instead. Think about it carefully now, it's a real brain teaser. (Hint: It would have been Tiger Lake.) In fact I'm not really sure why you posted that article, it's a glowing review of M1's performance and shows it trading blows with Zen 3 at its best, and beating the best Intel has at its worst.

"The performance of the new M1 in this “maximum performance” design with a small fan is outstandingly good. The M1 undisputedly outperforms the core performance of everything Intel has to offer, and battles it with AMD’s new Zen3, winning some, losing some. And in the mobile space in particular, there doesn’t seem to be an equivalent in either ST or MT performance – at least within the same power budgets." - Andrei Frumusanu, Anandtech

Desktop X86 blows the M1 away.

Did you uh, look at the power and clock differences there bud? You betcha a chip with close to equivalent IPC, twice as many cores, running 50% higher clocks, and at twice the power draw at load is going to be faster. I'm not really sure what that argument does for you though? Yes, pushing much higher clocks and power got you more performance. The existence of higher clock, higher power CPUs doesn't negate the performance of M1 at its power tier. Did we suddenly forget that IPC is the measure of a core, not watts? I'm getting flashbacks to Zen 3's launch and all the Intel guys yelling about their 280W 5.4GHz i9s still being faster.
 
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1. Intel is the main competition for M1 since it's the only other option for new Mac systems.
Because Zeus said, that if Apple would switch to other CPU manufacturer, he would send thunderbolts to Cuppertino, to fry Tim Cook's bottom.
And as Apple would not be ok with its CEO having bried bottom, they comply with Zeus' request to strictly stick to Intel as 3rd party CPU supplier.
Sounds plausible.

2. Macs are built around specific workflows that are important to their primary customer base.
:D :D :D
Ok, let me recap actual customers that I know in person:
1) "I buy anything Apple" types, for those, performance/usability/ANYTHING, wait for it, does not matter at all. Most of the time they surf the web or do some lousy video editing using Apple's lousy apps.
Probably the most common type

2) Freelancers, that buy it for high quality (and write it off taxes they pay). These guys will feel the pain.

3) It's a single guy, but still quote notable: dude is literally looking for "most expensive shit there is". (I wish my income was as good :)). Yeah, as with #1, is it shit, or is it not, matters not.

look at the power and clock differences
Look at the context again:
Look at 4800u (smaller chip, outdated chip, outdated fab, consumes less power) beating M1 which is, wait for it, larger, consumes more power and is on 5nm process, and consumes more and think again about all the mythical narrative that is being pushed:

from the "ARM's are soo uber power efficient" to "M1 is so uber fast x86 should be ashamed".

If you feel hurt, it's ok to mix in Intel's fab woes, if it would hurt you less.
 
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<snip>

Their products do last but the company will throw its users under the bus if it thinks it can make a buck.

That makes Apple in no way unique relative to any publicly traded company on earth.

(Yes, I know that's a bit hyperbolic.)
 
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