SSTC Tiger Shark Elite 2 TB

[Avro Arrow]

Some people like me don't play on a computer.

I use my build for 3D scanning/Modelling/Print preparation. And there one is using much bigger data. Also for programming and Excel. My actual tablesheets takes around 15min for recalculation with my actual 3800x. A full scan on a foot i.e. takes up to 3-5millions of data points. Those ones have to be saved. When converting it to a 3D Model this Model will have a filesize of at least 100MB saved at each modification. When that model-file is prepared to print one saves the file more often. After the print peparation one has (Depending on the size= let's say >500MB of a file. So tjhis is a more heavy usage of the SSD sub system.

Oh absolutely, I agree. I was just talking about the mass DIY market which is primarily gamers. There's no question that there's a niche market for SSDs like this and you would definitely fit the bill. I only posted that because, well, you know how kids are... They see something shiny and go broke on it even if it doesn't offer them any serious benefit. My post was mostly for them so that they could continue to waste their money primarily on things like RGB AIOs that cost $200 (for their Ryzen 5s) and RGB RAM DIMMs.

After all, nothing improves gaming performance like fancy-looking cooling and RGB RAM DIMMs, eh?

To get all of this running fast my rig looks like the following:

CPU: 7950X
CPU Cooler: Custom Loop with all from Alphacool and EKWB
Motherboard: Asus X670e ProArt
RAM: Kingston Fury 64GB (2 x 32GB) 288-Pin PC RAM RGB DDR5 6000
Video Card: Sapphire Nitro+ RX7900XT water cooled
System SSD: Crucial T700 2TB or Samsung 990 Pro 2TB
Data SSD: Crucial T700 4TB or Samsung 990 Pro 4TB
PSU: MSI (Whatever) 1000W

The total incl. Case and Water cooling is around 6k €. Additional different 3D printed individual parts.

I won't lie, that's a damn sweet setup! It's definitely not what I would've expected. I thought that you'd have a Threadripper and an nVidia Quadro (or whatever they call them these days).

I find it very interesting that you use a Radeon for that kind of work because the general narrative when it comes to content creators, especially 3D modellers, is that the best choice for your kind of work is nVidia CUDA. What software suite do you use that works well with Radeons? It would be something that I'd like to look into because I have an RX 7900 XTX. I never thought of even tinkering with something like that or stable diffusion because it was my understanding that Radeons are ill-suited for that task.

What exactly are you smoking? That's a flagship CPU and GPU.

No! 7800X3D and 5800X3D have very high heat density, you absolutely cannot cool them effectively with cheap direct-contact heatpipe coolers.

I must disagree because my R7-5800X3D is cooled by an AMD Wraith Prism and there are no issues with heat. IIRC, the cooling performance of the Cooler Master Hyper 212 is about on par with the Wraith Prism. Also, I used a Cooler Master Hyper 212 on my FX-8350 and that CPU runs far hotter than any of the octocore X3D CPUs.

Click this sentence to see the power consumption of X3D systems in Blender.

Click this sentence to see the power consumption of an FX-8350 system in Prime95.

That's a 47W disparity between them and as we all know, power consumption = heat output. This doesn't tell the whole story though because while the maximum temperatures of the R7-5800X3D and the R7-7800X3D are 90°C and 89°C respectively, the FX-8350 was a much more fragile piece of silicon with a max temperature of only 61°C. With its 125W TDP and temp limit of only 61°C, the FX-8350 needed a FAR BEEFIER cooler than the 8-core Ryzen X3D CPUs. That CoolerMaster Hyper 212 kept that FX-8350 well below 61°C for just over a year before I upgraded to an R7-1700 and used the RGB Wraith Spire that came with it.

At the bare minimum you need a beefier air cooler with a proper base plate that can spread the load over multiple heatpipes. The concentrated area where heat is produced in a 7800X3D is channeled into one or two heatpipes at most with a direct contact cooler, resulting in those heatpipes being overwhelmed and vapor-locked. I've read about the issue on forums, and I've experienced it first-hand with a large 5-heatpipe direct-contact model like the Thermalright Assassin King, getting completely overwhelmed by a 5800X3D, whilst the same CPU not throttling on an old Cryorig M9 which is a pissy little 92mm cooler with just 3 heatpipes, but also a proper copper base plate to sread the hotspot to all three heatpipes.

Regardless of what you've read, I've been building PCs since 1988 and I can tell you from personal experience that there is no issue whatsoever with using a Cooler Master Hyper 212 with ANY modern AMD CPU because they consume less power and therefore put out less heat that the pre-Ryzen CPUs. If the Cooler Master Hyper 212 is able to handle an FX-8350 (and I know first-hand that it can), then there's no CPU that isn't an Intel 13th-gen that it can't handle.

I don't know where you got your information but the source was probably someone who was completely inept because, as I've just demonstrated with numbers and simple logic, your information source was just plain wrong. It is literally impossible that they were correct based on the numbers that I've just shown you. If it really concerns you, there is enough money left in the budget to put a second fan on that cooler for a push-pull configuration. However, the idea that the Cooler Master Hyper 212 is not enough for a Ryzen X3D CPU is patently absurd.

 

[gurusmi]

Oh absolutely, I agree. I was just talking about the mass DIY market which is primarily gamers. There's no question that there's a niche market for SSDs like this and you would definitely fit the bill. I only posted that because, well, you know how kids are... They see something shiny and go broke on it even if it doesn't offer them any serious benefit. My post was mostly for them so that they could continue to waste their money primarily on things like RGB AIOs that cost $200 (for their Ryzen 5s) and RGB RAM DIMMs.

After all, nothing improves gaming performance like fancy-looking cooling and RGB RAM DIMMs, eh?

I won't lie, that's a damn sweet setup! It's definitely not what I would've expected. I thought that you'd have a Threadripper and an nVidia Quadro (or whatever they call them these days).

I find it very interesting that you use a Radeon for that kind of work because the general narrative when it comes to content creators, especially 3D modellers, is that the best choice for your kind of work is nVidia CUDA. What software suite do you use that works well with Radeons? It would be something that I'd like to look into because I have an RX 7900 XTX. I never thought of even tinkering with something like that or stable diffusion because it was my understanding that Radeons are ill-suited for that task.

OS: Primary Zorin Linux, Windows for Scanning only
3D Scanning: Creative CRStudio
3D Printing: Lychee and Chitubox for slicing, UVTools for repairing the sliced files. Printing on Elegoo Resin printers
3D Design: OpenSCAD and 3D Builder
Software-Development: Lazarus
Calculation etc.: LibreCalc

I don't use special software. So i can choose the GPU as i want. Originally i use the GPU only to diplay at 2 1440P Monitors at 75 Hz. The choosen GPU is a bit overrated for my tasks. But hey. it's said that the only difference between a boy and a man is the price of their toys.

Afaik the Single core power on Threadripper is lower than on Ryzen. And i need this SC Power for excel. Each time excel faces a Macro it switches to SC. I one of my workbooks i have around 10.000 Lines of code developed und in usage. The MC Power is needed when it's getting to scan 3D models. Originally i will test if the Programs run faster on 16 Core / 16 Threads instead of the standard 16 Core / 32 Threads. I have the CPU and the CPU watercooled. If i will be in need to change the cooling of the SSD/RAM also from air to water will be seen. Integrating that coolers are quite easy on my loop. Only for my water cooling loop i spent more than 1.000€. I use an Asus ProArt X670E as the mainboard. There i have 2 PCIe 5.0X4 and additionally 2 PCIe 4.0X4 NVME slots available. It's possible to run them on RAID-Level 0, 1 or 10. It would be possible to run i.e. 4 2TB NVME drives onboard at PCIe 4.0X4 with the speed of nearby PCI5.0X4. Having 4TB of total space. With a speed of at least 13 MB/Sec. That is faster than an actual crucial T700 PCIe 5.0X4 drive.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Testing I seen shows DS to significantly improve texture pop in and have stutter benefits on these games, not sure why avg FPS is being used to assess DS. Also preventing textures loading in at lower resolution as much.

Can people not see past FPS numbers or something as if thats the only metric that matters?

The testing also showed however gen 5 isnt needed for DS, so any company marketing a gen 5 SSD I would take that with a pinch of salt, I think the SN850X gaming mode has been talked about on here as well with suggestions to keep it turned off.

Agreed on fast gen 3 being good enough.

This channel has some interesting DirectStorage videos, but I got shit last time I linked to one, so have a look yourself.
That said, PCIe 3.0 drives won't be fast enough for some games.

https://www.youtube.com/@Compusemble

 

[chrcoluk]

This channel has some interesting DirectStorage videos, but I got shit last time I linked to one, so have a look yourself.
That said, PCIe 3.0 drives won't be fast enough for some games.

https://www.youtube.com/@Compusemble

I can accept in the future when things move on the bar will go up, but for now 3.0 at least will technically work, just might not be at the same level of performance. I think 4.0 will be fine for a long time as the consoles are the baseline. Will have a look at the video later today.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I can accept in the future when things move on the bar will go up, but for now 3.0 at least will technically work, just might not be at the same level of performance. I think 4.0 will be fine for a long time as the consoles are the baseline. Will have a look at the video later today.

Maybe not first gen and budget 4.0 drives, but everything mid-range and up should be fine for just about anything for a good few years.
3.0 was such a mixed bag, but the last generation or two of higher-end drives should be fine, but maybe not for Direct Storage features. I guess we'll find out as soon as some of the game developers release some actual system requirements.

 

[Avro Arrow]

OS: Primary Zorin Linux, Windows for Scanning only

Oh yeah, Linux is great for productivity because of its low hardware overhead and Radeon's support of Linux means that they easily has the best Linux drivers.

3D Scanning: Creative CRStudio
3D Printing: Lychee and Chitubox for slicing, UVTools for repairing the sliced files. Printing on Elegoo Resin printers
3D Design: OpenSCAD and 3D Builder
Software-Development: Lazarus
Calculation etc.: LibreCalc

The only one of those that I recognise is LibreCalc because I do use LibreOffice. IIRC, it's their version of Excel.

I don't use special software. So i can choose the GPU as i want. Originally i use the GPU only to diplay at 2 1440P Monitors at 75 Hz. The choosen GPU is a bit overrated for my tasks. But hey. it's said that the only difference between a boy and a man is the price of their toys.

Hahaha, I love that!

Afaik the Single core power on Threadripper is lower than on Ryzen. And i need this SC Power for excel. Each time excel faces a Macro it switches to SC. I one of my workbooks i have around 10.000 Lines of code developed und in usage. The MC Power is needed when it's getting to scan 3D models. Originally i will test if the Programs run faster on 16 Core / 16 Threads instead of the standard 16 Core / 32 Threads. I have the CPU and the CPU watercooled. If i will be in need to change the cooling of the SSD/RAM also from air to water will be seen. Integrating that coolers are quite easy on my loop. Only for my water cooling loop i spent more than 1.000€. I use an Asus ProArt X670E as the mainboard. There i have 2 PCIe 5.0X4 and additionally 2 PCIe 4.0X4 NVME slots available. It's possible to run them on RAID-Level 0, 1 or 10. It would be possible to run i.e. 4 2TB NVME drives onboard at PCIe 4.0X4 with the speed of nearby PCI5.0X4. Having 4TB of total space. With a speed of at least 13 MB/Sec. That is faster than an actual crucial T700 PCIe 5.0X4 drive.

Good lord, you've got that rig tuned to the max! That's some insane power right there and for what you're doing I would guess that it's exactly what you need. That's an amazing workstation right there, no doubt!

 

[gurusmi]

Oh yeah, Linux is great for productivity because of its low hardware overhead and Radeon's support of Linux means that they easily has the best Linux drivers.

The only one of those that I recognise is LibreCalc because I do use LibreOffice. IIRC, it's their version of Excel.

Hahaha, I love that!

Good lord, you've got that rig tuned to the max! That's some insane power right there and for what you're doing I would guess that it's exactly what you need. That's an amazing workstation right there, no doubt!

Well i plan and work on it since April. It started with a detailed view on my workload.

3D Scanning: Creality CRStudio for the scanner CR Scan Lizard
3D Printing: Lychee and Chitubox for slicing, UVTools for repairing the sliced files. Printing on Elegoo Resin printers
3D Design: OpenSCAD and 3D Builder
Software-Development: Lazarus

I added the links in this list so everybody could look anto the programs. Most are free to use.

In Excel i.e. i have tables where are around 10k lines of code in VBA. The processor is quite happy to be at least 90% in the SingleCore Mode as excel switches to it when it uses macros. One full calculation of that Worksheet takes a minimum of 15 minutes. Some others take longer some gets faster calculated. In Lazarus i develop my internal needed software for the managing my company. Sales, Procuction planning, tracking, employees, logistics,... All the tasks a company fulfills is managed in here. This are roundabout 140 tables in two tablespaces in different local dtabases.

And of course there is also the fascination of figures. I.e. driving a RAID-0 volume with 2 PCIe 5.0 drives. And a second volume to have with 2 PCIe 4.0 SSD Drives driven with the PCIe 5.0 speed.

 

[chrcoluk]

Maybe not first gen and budget 4.0 drives, but everything mid-range and up should be fine for just about anything for a good few years.
3.0 was such a mixed bag, but the last generation or two of higher-end drives should be fine, but maybe not for Direct Storage features. I guess we'll find out as soon as some of the game developers release some actual system requirements.

So I see some ground has been made on DS 1.2 they removed another i/o processing bottleneck which improved gen 4 slightly and gen 5 more. The jump from gen 3 to 4 was much bigger, I think because the gen 5 drives are still early adopters and we dont know yet if the DS bottleneck is now high enough to fully take advantage of gen 5 bandwidth until those drives get released.

I dont think this will actually matter in the foreseeable future other than potentially faster loading times, but I appreciate the link

 

[Avro Arrow]

Well i plan and work on it since April. It started with a detailed view on my workload.

3D Scanning: Creality CRStudio for the scanner CR Scan Lizard
3D Printing: Lychee and Chitubox for slicing, UVTools for repairing the sliced files. Printing on Elegoo Resin printers
3D Design: OpenSCAD and 3D Builder
Software-Development: Lazarus

I added the links in this list so everybody could look anto the programs. Most are free to use.

In Excel i.e. i have tables where are around 10k lines of code in VBA. The processor is quite happy to be at least 90% in the SingleCore Mode as excel switches to it when it uses macros. One full calculation of that Worksheet takes a minimum of 15 minutes. Some others take longer some gets faster calculated. In Lazarus i develop my internal needed software for the managing my company. Sales, Procuction planning, tracking, employees, logistics,... All the tasks a company fulfills is managed in here. This are roundabout 140 tables in two tablespaces in different local dtabases.

And of course there is also the fascination of figures. I.e. driving a RAID-0 volume with 2 PCIe 5.0 drives. And a second volume to have with 2 PCIe 4.0 SSD Drives driven with the PCIe 5.0 speed.

Oh man, my head hurts just from reading that (let alone actually trying to do it)!

There is one thing that just popped into my head... Does Linux support Crossfire? That might help you even more. I miss Crossfire...

 

[gurusmi]

There is one thing that just popped into my head... Does Linux support Crossfire? That might help you even more. I miss Crossfire...

It seems that my choosen Linux-Distro (Zorin, a fork of Ubuntu, because of the company and the employees) supports Crossfire. I have to say i don't know how it would help me. My 2 monitors are driven right now by a 4 years old Sapphire Pule RX 5700 XT without any issue. The card is running on the Standard mode. As i said before or anywhere else. I don't game on my machines. The card has to show the Desktop (Windows/Linux)

 

[SOAREVERSOR]

*IF* DirectStorage catches on and improves, maybe faster SSDs will show an advantage.

At the moment, DirectStorage appears to be almost vaporware and the only two games that use it don't show any significant differences; We're talking 2% framerate differences at most (within the margin of error for testing) comparing a slow SATA Samsung 870 EVO at ~500MB/s to a PCIe 4.0 Crucial P5 Plus at ~6000MB/s.

A decent Gen3 drive is plenty fast enough, and I couldn't see a difference when I moved my install to the library drive sitting in a PCIe 3.0 x2 slot, which limits speeds to around 1700MB/s.

Maybe it will. Gen3 is plenty fast now though. The thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the higher end parts show gains in tasks where people make money with their computers and aren't really for gaming. Though they will gladly slap RGB onto it and sell you it as Gaming. Gamers don't need this sort of thing. It's a low end use of computers.

 

[Avro Arrow]

It seems that my choosen Linux-Distro (Zorin, a fork of Ubuntu, because of the company and the employees) supports Crossfire. I have to say i don't know how it would help me. My 2 monitors are driven right now by a 4 years old Sapphire Pule RX 5700 XT without any issue. The card is running on the Standard mode. As i said before or anywhere else. I don't game on my machines. The card has to show the Desktop (Windows/Linux)

Well yeah, but I wasn't thinking about gaming. I was thinking about using two GPUs to speed up the GPUCompute tasks like you use for your line of work. I honestly don't know if it would work but I know that Linux can do some pretty fancy stuff at times.

 

[gurusmi]

The software i use don't utilitize the GPU. The GPU will be used to show the desktop.

 

[Yashyyyk]

Please add Performance/W/$ adjusted for drive size @W1zzard

 

[Mussels]

No! 7800X3D and 5800X3D have very high heat density, you absolutely cannot cool them effectively with cheap direct-contact heatpipe coolers.

This.
I keep telling people, those direct heatpipe things are trash on modern CPUs - they're utterly garbage. You need a solid baseplate, and performance is a world apart.

The Dark rock slim is the cheapest one I use, and it performs better on my 5800x than an EKWB 240mm AIO by over 10c.
It's the difference between seeing the single core 5150Mhz max boost, vs ~4900 (MT was ~150MHz difference)

It performs so well because it's got a nice chunky bit of metal direct to the IHS so that hotspot over the core(s) is spread out before reaching the heatpipes, not being stuck on a shitty strip of aluminium barely contacting the heatpipes

It only takes one core to be over that alu strip and you're having issues, and if its your highest clocking core, you're screwed.

 

[Chrispy_]

This.
I keep telling people, those direct heatpipe things are trash on modern CPUs - they're utterly garbage. You need a solid baseplate, and performance is a world apart.

The Dark rock slim is the cheapest one I use, and it performs better on my 5800x than an EKWB 240mm AIO by over 10c.
It's the difference between seeing the single core 5150Mhz max boost, vs ~4900 (MT was ~150MHz difference)

It performs so well because it's got a nice chunky bit of metal direct to the IHS so that hotspot over the core(s) is spread out before reaching the heatpipes, not being stuck on a shitty strip of aluminium barely contacting the heatpipes

It only takes one core to be over that alu strip and you're having issues, and if its your highest clocking core, you're screwed.

Yeah, people think it's all about TDP - and you have people like Avro proclaiming that a Hyper212 can cool the TDP of an FX8350 and then try to apply that logic to modern CPUs, which simply cannot be done.

You can fit somewhere between 9 and 12 Zen3 cores on TSMC's 7nm node in the same space as a single GF 32nm Piledriver core. The thermal density of a 5800X and FX8350 is easily an order of magnitude apart, and it's why even AIO's capable of cooling 250W+ older CPUs struggle with modern AMDs.

I've not built a K-series 12th or 13th gen, and the locked-down TDP and boost times of non-K are pretty conservative IME - so I'm not sure how bad things are on the Intel side of the fence, but I'd imaging it's soon going to affect Intels as Intel moves to smaller process nodes too.