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Surge protection do we really need it?

do we really need Surge protection

  • yes we need surge protection (please state why you think this)

    Votes: 38 77.6%
  • no not with modern pc powersupplies (please state why you think this)

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • no it's just a gimick they aren't worth it, and might cause more harm than good

    Votes: 3 6.1%
  • i'm not sure

    Votes: 10 20.4%

  • Total voters
    49
My cousin just got his power supply fried from power outages, so I voted numero uno.

Happened to me not long ago. Now I use one of these for all my electronics around the house. Not just for computers
 
unless you've done some fancy work to the breakers on the room your rig is in I'd say we need them. but as other have pointed out a ups is better.
 
looks like they skimped out on one of the components

Actually, no - these components blowed up when about 420V was present in my wall outlet. Not a surge, because It continued for a few hours. it blowed after about 1-2 second usage @ that voltage. But it has a crappy schematic (they don't use MOV "triangle"schematic, it means that if ground voltage level rises due to lightning strike near my house, then it can damage PSU anyway, if it has no triangle schematic too)
That is why I also use UPS, because it then just turns PC off. Model: FSP EP-1000 (1000VA/600W)
Triangle schematic I was talking about:
 

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What has protection inferior to a power strip protector? A UPS. Don't take my word for it. Read the spec numbers. UPS has a least number of joules. Just above zero so that it can claim surge protection. But those educated only by hearsay never bothered to first learn these numbers.

I don't agree with you there.

No, UPS doesn't have inferior protection, because when power surge occurs, UPS senses it and simply turns off/disconnects PC. If in the typical 4 ms switching time some surge energy manages to go thru, then it's "least number of joules MOV"+PSU eliminates it.

Main purpose of UPS is to disconnect equipment from power line when it is out of specs. Not big MOVs needed there. That is my point.

But I still use surge protector in series with UPS to eliminate surges/spikes before they can go to UPS:)
 
No, UPS doesn't have inferior protection, because when power surge occurs, UPS senses it and simply turns off/disconnects PC. If in the typical 4 ms switching time some surge energy manages to go thru, then it's "least number of joules MOV"+PSU eliminates it.
Again, how does a near zero MOV eliminate surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules?

If the UPS does that, well, the power supply already does that. Using circuits with better voltage numbers.

Nothing stops a surge. How does that millimeter switch inside a UPS stop any surge? If doesn't. So UPS specifications do not claim that protection. You cannot ignore the missing spec numbers. Somehow a millimeter switch stops surges? It is legal to lie in advertising.

More numbers. Surges are done in microseconds. The damage is done in microseconds. How does a relay that takes typically 10 milliseconds to open stop what is done in microseconds? It doesn't - which explains no protection listed in numeric specs.

How are MOVs rated? The typical surge is 8/20 us. 28 microsecond surges. Any protection that works in milliseconds is a scam. Therefore that UPS manufacturer does not list protection in numeric specs. How does millisecond protection stop surges that are microseconds? Another damning question.

MOVs were once installed routinely in appliances. For example, Apple II contained them. Then Apple learned why MOVs in (or adjacent) to an appliance are ineffective. Apple no longer uses those MOVs. Many confuse other similar looking devices (capacitors, inrush current limiters) with MOVs. And do not see where superior protection already exists in every power supply.

No MOV - no surge protector - does protection. Not one. An MOV either connects massive energy harmlessly to earth. Or it does nothing useful. MOV must be as short as possible to earth ground. And - this is done in every high reliability facility - the protector is distant from electronics. Distance increases surge protection. Telcos locate their protectors up to 50 meters distant from electronics. Why do telcos COs suffer about 100 surges with every thunderstorm - and no damage? Protectors are located up to 50 meters from electronics - and as short as possible to earth ground. Distances that define what makes MOVs effective.

Distance increases protection for the same reason that every shorter foot of wire between protector and earth decreases protection. Not each ten feet. Every foot shorter to earth is important.

And back to the original damning question. How does that tiny 1000 joules magically dissipate hundreds of thousands of joules.

It should be obvious who is the engineer who was doing this stuff decades ago. But that only says why I am askng damning questions and demending numeric specifications. Relevent for knowledge are facts and numbers: Where is that UPS numeric spec for protection? This engineer keeps asks damning questions that you should always be able to answer. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate? A protector that cannot answer that is best called a scam. Especially when the protector - i.e. that UPS - costs tens or 100 times more money than a well proven and effective protector.

Excessive cost - more numbers that any consumer can verify. I expect you to verify numbers before posting. And I expect claims to come with numbers. For example, surges are defined in microseconds - not milliseconds. Its 3000 joules defines near zero surge protection.
 
But I still use surge protector in series with UPS to eliminate surges/spikes before they can go to UPS
Plug the UPS and power strip protector into separate receptacles on the same circuit. You have not changed the circuit electrically. If a UPS plugs into the power strip or into another receptacle makes no difference. Electrically, that circuit is unchange. Electrically, protection is same.

But that is not what myths promoted. Somehow a magic device sits inside the power strip between AC mains and the UPS. Good. Show me. And good luck. The connection is direct; except for the always required circuit breaker. Nothing inside a power strip stops or blocks surges. But myths say otherwise. Please learn why your UPS into a power strip protector is a scam so easily promoted.
 
Again, how does a near zero MOV eliminate surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules?

Obviously you are talking only about lightning strike that goes into power lines, that is only thing from where hundreds of thousands of joules comes from.
I was not talking about lightning, because I think there are no surge supressors that can protect us computer geeks from it, except whole house spark gap protection,expensive stuff,etc.
But I do have one question - if you say that MOV that is connected to ground sends all lightning charge to ground, then UPS having small MOV connected to ground should have the same protection from LIGHTNING as Surge protector with bigger one, no?

More numbers. Surges are done in microseconds. The damage is done in microseconds. How does millisecond protection stop surges that are microseconds? Another damning question.

Ok, you are right there.:o After a little reading I agree on this. Ups provide lesser protection from surges than surge protector, because it has less powerful MOV inside.

An MOV either connects massive energy harmlessly to earth. Or it does nothing useful.

I guess you are talking about lightning again, but I am not. There are other causes of power surges where up to few thousand volts are present. Some MOVs are not even connected to earth line, but that doesn't mean they're not useful.
MOV's going to low resistance state has other meaning too - It is to shunt the equipment, thus dissipating surge in itself(MOV).

And I think that people here sudgest UPS because they offer many kinds of protection, not only surge, for example once at my house was nasty power fluctuations @ approx 50 hz frequency (AV receiver's relay was going mad).
But considering that this thread is about surge protectors, your arguments makes sense.:toast:

If a UPS plugs into the power strip or into another receptacle makes no difference. Electrically, that circuit is unchange. Electrically, protection is same.

How did you came to this conclusion?:wtf: Surge protector and UPS, and PSU are in parallel with each other and wall outlet. That means that every MOV is parallel too, thus doubling protection (joule ratings).


But that is not what myths promoted. Somehow a magic device sits inside the power strip between AC mains and the UPS. Good. Show me. And good luck. The connection is direct; except for the always required circuit breaker. Nothing inside a power strip stops or blocks surges. But myths say otherwise. Please learn why your UPS into a power strip protector is a scam so easily promoted.

That "magic device" is called Metal Oxide Varistor. As I already said, MOVs dissipates spikes and surges in itself, lowering it's internal resistance, and that is proven fact.:slap:
Better "Magic device" to dissipate surge energy is called "Gas Discharge Tube". It really dissipates surge energy by arc plasma discharge inside it.

Hope this helps.
 

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surge protectors are not designed to withstand a lightning strike :D, they are to stop random surges from anything such as a faulty transformer... or a power line arcing. they are definetly not intended to stop lightning....


that being said, i use a Powerguard http://powerguard.com.au/prod/plugin/pgextht.html on my PC, i got it for $5 due to damaged packaging lol......

This is absolutely not true. Surge protectors are indeed designed to stop lightning strikes that pass through the surge protector. Problem with lightning is that it loves to find ways into the back of your PC through any wire it can--sometimes it doesn't even need wires--even through the USB cable on your mouse if the strike is close enough.

The bottom line is this--too much or too little power are not a good thing at all for your gear. First, buy a surge protector from a well known company. Second, make sure that all your connections (power, ethernet, coax, whatever) are connected through the surge protector. Three, if you need brownout protection because you experience brownouts, get a product that has that feature too. Four, pray that lightning doesn't find another way to get to your electronics anyway--it is very creative if you have ever seen it in action (some stuff inexplicably gets blown up and other stuff is just fine--this isn't the fault of a bad surge protector, but the result of just the creative paths that lightning chooses to take sometimes--if your quality brand name surge protector doesn't get blown by a lightning strike, it is because the lightning totally bypassed it and took another route). Surge protectors are not a guarantee against lightning damaging your gear--they are just the just the best protection we have. Finally, whenever possible, it is still a good idea to unplug/isolate your gear as much as possible anytime lightning is present.
 
That "magic device" is called Metal Oxide Varistor. As I already said, MOVs dissipates spikes and surges in itself, lowering it's internal resistance, and that is proven fact.:slap:
Now learn basic electricity. If its resistance decreases, then less energy is absorbed - not more. The equation from high school physics is:

W = I^2 * R

Decrease the current (I) or decrease the resistance (R) means a decrease in watts (and energy. How does a MOV that "lowers it's internal resistance" dissipate more energy? It doesn't. But when knowledge comes from retail myths, then basic science gets forgotten. Which do you believe? Lies to promote profit centers? Or basic science even taught in high school?

Please learn how easily scammers have promoted junk science. Difficult is for most people to admit the first thing they believed was an intentional lie. Why does that equation contradict what they told you? View the manufacturer spec number. Why do you ignore this? Where is the spec number that lists protection from each type of surge? Does not exist because it does near zero surge protection. But I am only repeating again why you intentionally ignore. No spec number. Explain that?

Lightning is the typical surge. Few surges overwhelm protection already insde every appliance. Lightning is one. But lightning is not the highest energy. Utility generated surges may be even higher energy. And even less frequent.

For example, a 33,000 volt wire fell on local distribution. Therefore hundreds of electric meters were blown 30 feet from their pans - in pieces. So many people who had plug-in protectors had damage even to the protectors. Unacceptable. At least one had failed circuit breakers.

But my friend knows someone who actually knows this stuff (including that above equation). Therefore he had no plug-in protectors, one properly earthed 'whole house' protector, and no damage (except to his meter). Even the protector was undamaged.

If that UPS offered protection (and it did not for so many of my friend's neighbors), then you can post manufacture numeric specs that say so. But you cannot - which explains why you ignore the challenge. For reason after reasons posted previously. And becaue the manufacturer does not even claim that protection. Please learn how easily you have been conned by myths. It even violates high school physics equations.

A UPS connects an appliance directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. That is when the destructive surge seeks earth ground, destructively, through a UPS via the appliance. Why does your UPS not claim any protection in its numeric specs? Again, you cannot avoid that damning reality. So stop listening to hearsay myths about an MOV doing the protection. It doesn't. Even though it is a best protector device available, it does not do any protection. But again, I will keep repeating it until you grasp it. There is a reason why I designed this stuff; and you did not.

Or learn from the NIST (US government research agency) who does this stuff and who is not selling profit centers:
> A very important point to keep in mind is that your surge protector will work
> by diverting the surges to ground. The best surge protection in the world can
> be useless if grounding is not done properly.

How does that MOV without an 'always required' short (low impedance) connection to earth provide protection? It does not. Did you see the word "useless"? Take a $3 power strip. Add those ten cent protector parts. And sell it to those who can be told how to think for $25 or $150. It is not a surge protector. It is a profit center.

How to identify each ineffective protector? 1) It has no dedicated wire for the always short connection to single point earth ground. 2) Its manufacturer will not even discuss earthing. It is that easy. Or, where does your UPS discuss what is always required for protection? It doesn't. At what point is the evidence damning? Near zero joules means no effective protection. And means retail advertising can claim 100% protection.

That should be more than enough to convince you. But I am not done.

Please. Good chance I was doing this stuff professionally before you ever touched a computer. To know about surge protection means learning about wire impedance. Current source. How does low voltage electricity flow through a tube of low pressure, inert, and non-conductive gas? Most is taught in a first year engineering course. Without basic electrical equations from high school physics, then scammers view you as a mark.

MOVs are some of the best protectors available (when capacitance is not problematic). But no protector does protection. Not even MOVs. That was posted before. If you did not understand that, then you did not yet grasp what a protector does. Or learn from another professionals such as Dr Schneider:
> As previously mentioned, the connection to earth ground can not be over
> emphasized. ...
> Conceptually, lightning protection devices are switches to ground. Once a
> threatening surge is detected, a lightning protection device grounds the
> incoming signal connection point of the equipment being protected. Thus,
> redirecting the threatening surge on a path-of-least resistance
> (impedance) to ground where it is absorbed.
> Any lightning protection device must be composed of two "subsystems," a
> switch which is essentially some type of switching circuitry and a good
> ground connection-to allow dissipation of the surge energy. The switch, of
> course, dominates the design and the cost. Yet, the need for a good
> ground connection can not be emphasized enough. Computer equipment
> has been damaged by lightning, not because of the absence of a
> protection device, but because inadequate attention was paid to
> grounding the device properly.

So who is lying? Those advertisers who spin what an MOV does? Of people who do this stuff professionally including the NIST, Dr Schneider, or well how about AT&T:
> Surge protection for DSL and dialup service.
> Surge protection takes on many forms, but always involves the following
> components: Grounding bonding and surge protectors. ...
> Grounding is required to provide the surge protector with a path to dump
> the excess energy to earth. A proper ground system is a mandatory
> requirement of surge protection. Without a proper ground, a surge protector
> has no way to disburse the excess energy and will fail to protect
> downstream equipment.
> Bonding is required to electrically connect together the various grounds of the
> services entering the premises. Without bonding, a surge may still enter a
> premise after firing over a surge protector, ... traveling into and through
> protected equipment, damaging that equipment in the process. ...
> Now, if all the various service entrance grounds are bonded together there
> are no additional paths to ground through the premise. ...
> By far, the whole house hardwired surge protectors provide the best
> protection. When a whole house primary surge protector is installed at the
> service entrance, it will provide a solid first line of defense against surges
> which enter from the power company's service entrance feed. These types
> of protectors can absorb/pass considerably more energy than any other type
> of protector, and if one does catastrophically fail, it will not typically be
> in a living space. ...
> Plug in strip protectors are, at best, a compromise. At worst, they may
> cause more damage than they prevent. While they may do an acceptable
> job of handling hot to neutral surges, they do a poor job of handling any
> surge that must be passed to ground. ...
> Then, to add insult to injury, some strip protectors add Telco and/or LAN
> surge protection within the same device, trying to be an all-in-one sale.
> Remember bonding? When Telco or LAN protection is added to a strip
> protector, if the premise ground, which is not designed to handle surges,
> cannot handle all of the energy, guess where that excess energy seeks
> out the additional grounds? You got it! The Telco and LAN connections now
> becomes the path, with disastrous results to those devices. ...

Now, reread it. Things this new are not understood in the first reading. AT&T is also saying how protectors adjacent to appliances makes surge damage easier.

We who did this stuff even traced surge damage to a network of powered off computers BECAUSE plug-in protectors earthed that surge destructively through those computers. Again, once energy is inside, then nothing can avert that destructive hunt.

Either energy dissipates harmlessly outside the building. Or that energy is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Plug-in protectors sometimes make damage easier.

Please grasp this. No protector does protection. Either a protector makes the always required, short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point ground. Or it is ineffective (what the NIST calls "useless").

This soundbyte says it all - a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. At what point does the word "useless" get your attention? But that mean you must reject advertising myths that you were posting. For many, that is difficult. Advertising is that manipulative.
 
Surge protectors are not a guarantee against lightning damaging your gear--they are just the just the best protection we have. Finally, whenever possible, it is still a good idea to unplug/isolate your gear as much as possible anytime lightning is present.
I never unplug because I learned this stuff. Love to follow major thunderstorms on the computer. Never disconnect anything to protect from surges. Instead learn facts and these numbers from the IEEE Green Book entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection Grounding':
> Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or diverted to a path which
> will, if well designed and constructed, not result in damage. Even this means is not
> positive, providing only 99.5-99.9% protection. ...
> Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one
> stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ...

One properly earthed 'whole house' protector means maybe 99.5% of the protection. If I wasted tens or 100 times more money, I could have an additional 0.2% protection from plug-in protectors. Why bother? View the numbers? And appreciate that I upgrade earth ground - the only thing that does protection.

No protector does protection. Good reasons why plug-in protectors do not claim protection in its specs. Yes, either you agree. Or you post those spec numbers. Nobody does. Plug-in protectors even make surge damage easier. Gives a surge even more paths to find earth destructively via appliances.

No protector does protection. Effective protectors connect to what does all protection. And that costs about $1 per protected appliance. Your telco's computer (threatened by about 100 surges with each storm) only uses 'whole house' protectors. An employee might even be fired for using plug-in protectors. Damage must never happen.

Why do telcos upgrade earthing, use 'whole house' protectors, and not waste money on plug-in protectors? How often has your town been without phone service for four days while they replace their switching computer? Why plug-in protectors are not used. And why 'whole house' protectors are used on every single incoming wire.
 
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yup I use one i have this

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...7&cs=19&c=us&l=en&dgc=SS&cid=27530&lid=627063

of course i worked at BB att so i got it stupid cheap. I think that most modern day decent PSU's will catch surges etc before it reaches components. that said I had a 600w TT die about 2 weeks ago from one that I have yet to replace. Good PSU's are expensive not to mention they ARE your PC so why risk it?
 
Good PSU's are expensive not to mention they ARE your PC so why risk it?
Which is why I do not use those plug-in protectors that can even make surge damage easier. Read the AT&T citation. Its describe why plug-in protectors can even make damage easier. We engineers saw this often by performing an autopsy of damaged electronics.
 
I use surge protectors because I need more plugs, and they are a hell of a lot easier than installing more outlets.
 
I use surge protectors because I need more plugs, and they are a hell of a lot easier than installing more outlets.
Best power strip is only a power strip with the always required circuit breaker for maybe $3 or $4.

Appreciate dangers seen maybe once by most every fire department:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol entitled "Surge Protector Fires"
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm
http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339

More reasons why spending less for a straight power strip is a smarter purchase.
 
Which is why I do not use those plug-in protectors that can even make surge damage easier. Read the AT&T citation. Its describe why plug-in protectors can even make damage easier. We engineers saw this often by performing an autopsy of damaged electronics.

I'm sorry I am not going to argue with you. I can already see plain as day the walls of text that were a result of your previous back and fourth, (though the AT&T citation isnt obvious at all) which promptly seemed to end with insults about elementary electronics. This thread asked for my opinion and I gave it and I dont need an "engineer" to tell me my opinion is wrong. My stuff isnt dead and whether it is because its not doing anything or because it has protected me doesnt matter my stuff turns on in the morning and if that brick of outlets gives me peace of mind so be it.
 
I'm sorry I am not going to argue with you.
You did not come here to argue. And I certainly am not. I am putting forth facts. An engineer who did this stuff provided a best solution. Posted with reasons why and numbers. Which identify a recommendation based in knowledge and experience.

Waste no money on plug-in protectors. Or buy one in the grocery store for $7. Same protector circuit also sells in fanciest plug-in protectors for $40 or $150 from APC, Monster, Belkin, etc. Read its numeric specs. Same circuit. Get same from a grocery store for many times less money.

Protection means money spent on something required. What you never once mentioned. And should have been the one item you most worry about. Earth ground. The NIST said that. “The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly.”

You asked for surge protection. Then discuss something completely different – a protector. The difference is significant especially if you want to spend less money for a superior solution. You need not understand details. But the bottom line is that word "useless". AT&T also says, a plug-in protector can even contribute to appliance damage. Of course. Earthing provides the protection. Worry most about what was ignored. What makes every ‘whole house’ protector so effective – single point earth ground.
 
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You did not come here to argue. And I certainly am not. I am putting forth facts. An engineer who did this stuff provided a best solution. Posted with reasons why and numbers. Which identify a recommendation based in knowledge and experience.

Waste no money on plug-in protectors. Or buy one in the grocery store for $7. Same protector circuit also sells in fanciest plug-in protectors for $40 or $150 from APC, Monster, Belkin, etc. Read its numeric specs. Same circuit. Get same from a grocery store for many times less money.

Protection means money spent on something required. What you never once mentioned. And should have been the one item you most worry about. Earth ground. The NIST said that. “The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly.”

You asked for surge protection. Then discuss something completely different – a protector. The difference is significant especially if you want to spend less money for a superior solution. You need not understand details. But the bottom line is that word "useless". AT&T also says, a plug-in protector can even contribute to appliance damage. Of course. Earthing provides the protection. Worry most about what was ignored. What makes every ‘whole house’ protector so effective – single point earth ground.

That seems legitimate enough and im no sore loser. Give me time to read over what was typed and I will be able to come back for a proper discussion but dont try and hold that engineering degree against me, you dont need a degree to understand how something works. ;)
 
To better appreciate the concept, revue what Ben Franklin demonstrated.

A surge seeks earth ground. A better electrical path is via a wooden church steeple. Even wood is an electrical conductor. But not a very good one. Therefore a 20,000 amp surge through wood results in a high voltage. 20,000 amps times a high voltage is high energy. So the church steeple is damaged.

Franklin put a lighting rod atop the church. But a rod (like a protector) does no protection. Ignored is what does the protection: a connection from that rod to earth ground. 20,000 amps through that conductive wire and earth ground electrode means near zero voltage. 20,000 amps times near zero volts is near zero energy. No damage.

A 'whole house' protector does same. Connects surges harmlessly to earth just like Franklin's lighting rod.

See those wires down the street? A lightning strike to utility wires is a direct lightning strike to everything inside your house. Either a 'whole house' protector connects a surge to earth (like a lightning rod). Or that surge selects which appliances to blow through to earth.

Like the church steeple, no appliance or adjacent protector can stop a surge. That surge will select and use a best path to earth. Sometimes a protector gives it even more and destructive paths.

Like the lighting rod, a 'whole house' protector does not do protection. Like a lightning rod, the protector can only connect a surge to where energy dissipates harmlessly. Like a lightning rod, a protector is also only as effective as that earth ground.

'Whole house' protectors used even 100 years ago. Protection from surges has been understood that long. Nothing stopped a surge then as today. Protection is always about giving a surge a path to ground that does not use church steeples or household appliances.
 
To Westom:

I am not denying everything you say. I was not agreeing only on things I quoted.

You obviously did not read my post entirely because this equation works wery well with what I posted earlier. >If MOV is soldered between Hot and Neutral, then it works.
And being an engineer, you should not throw basic laws at me while not being able to understand how electronic components and circuits work(or read my post more carefully,before posting. I am sure we are both not stupid and that way there will be less misunderstandings)
Gas discharge tube is connected in parallel to main line (between Hot and neutral) just like PSU.
Now you understand?. And I don't need any convincing with many pages of text(starting to look like your company's advertising), because I agree with you about grounding and need for proper protection, but I was discussing basic surge protectors as everyone:).
I am electronics technician and thru of first year engineering course, I am no fan of MOVs, but I am starting to like Gas discharge tubes.:)
Regarding to my posts I still don't agree on word "Useless", and i will say no more.

*edit* Oh, sh.. I forgot to add specificaions. well, I think it's irrelevant because you already mentioned 1000 to 3000 joule protection.
Really, my UPS specs doesn't mention numbers, only mentions that surge protection exists.
My other old/less powerful UPS states, that it has 1050 joule surge protection. I agree, it is very small.
 
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All I can say is YES you need a good surge protector if you are unwilling to get an APC . the least you can do for your computer is a surge protector .
 
I have one, I don't really know if I need it though. Doesn't matter as the cost difference isn't great as far as I remember.
 
Surge protectors are only meant for indirect lightning strikes or power fluctuations. When a direct lightning strike occurs, it usually throws all the wiring and cables from the walls.
 
Anyone ever opened up one of more expensive surge supressors, like APC? I really want to know if components used there are different from cheap $10 things?
 
Anyone ever opened up one of more expensive surge supressors, like APC? I really want to know if components used there are different from cheap $10 things?
Then read the numeric specs. MOVs are MOVs. Old old technology. Like resistors, read the numbers and know what you have.

What makes a better protector? This is also obvious from the numbers. Increased joules means it absorbs less energy.
 
Gas discharge tube is connected in parallel to main line (between Hot and neutral) just like PSU.
A gas tube simply gives a surge on the hot wire access destructively through that appliance via its neutral wire. That surge will enter on a utility wire. And obtain earth via a best path. Hot to neutral still means a surge inside the building must blow through something nearby to get to earth. A GDT hot to neutral only gives a surge more destructive paths.

GDT were a superior replacement for spark gaps. But GDTs degraded quickly for the same reason a fluorescent lamp fails. Which includes gas contamination. MOVs do what GDTs did with a much longer life expectancy. Without degrading so quickly.

Well some get excited over a lower voltage once a GDT trips. But that lower 'after tripping' voltage does nothing to increase protection. More important (in some cases) is a 'before tripping' voltage. GDTs are not good there. GDTs do provide low capacitance. Which is why GDTs are often used in signaling systems.

Learn about avalanche diodes. Avalanche diodes have a lower 'before tripping' voltage. But have low current capacity. Surge protection is always about current; voltage is only the dependent variable (a concept you should learn in 1st year engineering). Diode costs are high. Avalanche diodes also have excessive capacitance. So a specialty type of avalanche diode is available.

Every telco wire has a 'whole house' protector installed at the subscriber interface (NID box). Every home has that 'whole house' protector installed for free. A specialty avalanche diode is commonly used. And like all surge protectors, is either earthed. Or is "useless".

Nothing else that does what is required costs less than an MOV.

If you think a voltage between hot and neutral is relevant, then you have no idea, yet, how surge damage is created and how effective protectors work.

Fact that you do not understand 'useless' says you have not yet learned what causes damage and what is always necessary for protection. NIST, who does this research, accurately says, “The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly.” If you do not understand how major and accurate that statement is, then you still do not understand surge protection.

A 6000 volt surge on the hot wire can be shunted to the neutral wire by a GDT. Now that surge has two wires at 6000 volts and still hunting for earth destructively via some nearby appliance. Yes, the voltage across a GDT is near zero when 6000 volts is also blowing that appliance to obtain earth. Eventually you will learn relevant terms such as normal, longitudinal, transverse, differential, metallic, and common mode. A GDT from hot to neutral implies you have not yet learned that critically important concept.

Those who think a protector between two wires is protection did not learn those relevant concepts. Protection means every wire short (low impedance) to earth. Either directly or via a protector. No protector does protection. Not one. Not even the GDT. Obvious when "where does energy dissipate?" is always asked. Surge protection means answering that question every time.
 
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