Telegram privacy question

[mihailc]

From what I've gathered recently reading up on E911 chip reddit discussion, no matter which secure applications you launch, it doesn't benefit you, since certain interested parties can directly read your swipes and taps on smartphone screen before it's encrypted.

 

[R-T-B]

Explain this to me then: how can a service provider, provide you with a service if the data to do so, is not present on its servers? Yes, if its temporary storage, then you would have to believe it is actually temporary but another possibility is just that data is in *your* temporary storage and archived after 24 hours. It *could* be erased, but again, this is 100% and only about how much you trust a service provider. You can never get a guarantee, and if you are really hellbent on security of data, that makes it a 'no go'...

It's possible. But not with cloud storage. With cloud storage the easiest answer is to encrypt your data prior to uploading because obviously, they are going to have it.

For chat, you can have no storage of data. But then, you are depending on a client to client model (IP exposed).

From what I've gathered recently reading up on E911 chip reddit discussion, no matter which secure applications you launch, it doesn't benefit you, since certain interested parties can directly read your swipes and taps on smartphone screen before it's encrypted.

Not sure that's true, but I guess it would depend on the firmware and how deep the government has it's fingers in it. I know it's probably not true for a project like Lineage OS.

Truly, and I don't mean this condescending, but do you really need privacy for your chat? particularly, from whom? Third party espionage, or government? If you are worried about the state and such, I would advise you to do a lot more reading (as well as realize you are probably screwed and should stop your likely criminal activity). At any rate, it helps to understand why you need it before pursuing it. True privacy and convienience are often at opposite ends of the spectrum. You won't find them together often. Telegram or Discord should be fine if you don't need any privacy from state level actors.

 

[DRDNA]

opps

 

[Solaris17]

I personally use telegram, I would not use discord. Discord unlike telegram collects alot of your information.

https://discordapp.com/privacy

Discord was never paraded as a security app and should not be used as such if you are worried about it.

Regarding telegram leaking ips for voice chat it should be mentioned it was ONLY for voice chat and ONLY for the desktop clients. and didnt affect other types of chat.

They also corrected it you can read about that here.

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news...its-latest-v1-4-0-desktop-update-5314381.html

 

[Crusti]

Explain this to me then: how can a service provider, provide you with a service if the data to do so, is not present on its servers? Yes, if its temporary storage, then you would have to believe it is actually temporary but another possibility is just that data is in *your* temporary storage and archived after 24 hours. It *could* be erased, but again, this is 100% and only about how much you trust a service provider. You can never get a guarantee, and if you are really hellbent on security of data, that makes it a 'no go'...

Even a service such as Snapchat is likely to have all that data present somewhere. Imagine the stuff they can capture when people live with the illusion that what they send is only there 'temporarily'... even though any idiot can screengrab whatever gets sent...

So again - once you put something up in the cloud, there is always a risk involved. When you consider that, does it really matter what you use? There is realistically no difference between service providers: with each and every single one, its all about how much you trust it.

Okay.. And what if a messenger doesn't have a server or cloud storage and its based on blockchain? Then it's probably no way to reach the messages I've sent.

I personally use telegram, I would not use discord. Discord unlike telegram collects alot of your information.

https://discordapp.com/privacy

Discord was never paraded as a security app and should not be used as such if you are worried about it.

Regarding telegram leaking ips for voice chat it should be mentioned it was ONLY for voice chat and ONLY for the desktop clients. and didnt affect other types of chat.

They also corrected it you can read about that here.

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news...its-latest-v1-4-0-desktop-update-5314381.html

But Telegram collects all the information and moreover - it has an access to it.
They also announced that they will pass some information to 3rd parties if needed.
Is it about privacy?

 

[Vayra86]

Okay.. And what if a messenger doesn't have a server or cloud storage and its based on blockchain? Then it's probably no way to reach the messages I've sent.



But Telegram collects all the information and moreover - it has an access to it.
They also announced that they will pass some information to 3rd parties if needed.
Is it about privacy?

How is it based on blockchain though.

The idea of blockchain is that each entity in the chain adds a piece of information and all participants have access to the 'chain'. But the data it 'protects' must still be available somewhere and as such it is held somewhere - its not on your device, that is for sure, because then the chat would die when you would turn it off. So where else? The only thing blockchain really works well for is authenticity of the data. Still won't protect you from the company itself or '3rd parties' that want the data. In a practical sense there is no difference with any other form of encryption.

The question must again be asked, why do you care so much, because realistically, and as pointed out by others as well, once you put data in the cloud, its anyone's guess how secure it truly is. Perfect security doesn't exist, so the purpose you have for seeking it does matter - you can then find a medium with a very low risk of that 'kind' of exposure of data.

 

[Crusti]

How is it based on blockchain though.

The idea of blockchain is that each entity in the chain adds a piece of information and all participants have access to the 'chain'. But the data it 'protects' must still be available somewhere and as such it is held somewhere - its not on your device, that is for sure, because then the chat would die when you would turn it off. So where else? The only thing blockchain really works well for is authenticity of the data. Still won't protect you from the company itself or '3rd parties' that want the data. In a practical sense there is no difference with any other form of encryption.

The question must again be asked, why do you care so much, because realistically, and as pointed out by others as well, once you put data in the cloud, its anyone's guess how secure it truly is. Perfect security doesn't exist, so the purpose you have for seeking it does matter - you can then find a medium with a very low risk of that 'kind' of exposure of data.

Why do I care? I think every person that is not simply browsing the web and watching kitten pictures should care about his privacy.
I mean there were so many scandals with arrests in different countries for just sending some memes to friends.. Government is watching what do people send to each other, they watch after every step and it's quite annoying.

 

[Vayra86]

Why do I care? I think every person that is not simply browsing the web and watching kitten pictures should care about his privacy.
I mean there were so many scandals with arrests in different countries for just sending some memes to friends.. Government is watching what do people send to each other, they watch after every step and it's quite annoying.

I'm not saying you shouldn't care. I think we collectively don't care enough about privacy as it is.

But. Personally I do fancy being effective at what I do. And worrying about privacy in an online world where you purposely put stuff in mass-surveilled networks and then expect it to remain a secret, is just not going to work.

The bottom line is, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Blanket statements about 'muh privacy and gov surveillance' are not going to get you anywhere. Its a simple case of either/or. Either you choose to invest major time and effort into a truly secure solution that is often very user unfriendly, or you choose to be part of the masses and rely on security through obscurity. As in: there is so much data, the relevance of your personal data is extremely low, you'll take your chances.

Considering we need to take our chances every day (in traffic, in life, etc.), its really not that bad. I think the real problem here is trust. I've said it before: even the client/messenger you use is fundamentally a trust issue. Do you trust your government (or rather: the people who work there, because its not a single minded entity) and the checks and balances that exist in law to protect you, or not?

You need to answer those questions to make the right decisions on privacy. My personal view is that we need collective effort to really make a change. And while the current state of privacy for individuals often seems very poor, there IS law in place to protect you from privacy breaches and there are real steps in the right direction in for example the EU, with GDPR. The major issues people experience with privacy is almost exclusively because they themselves posted all sorts of crap online. Often in public places, too. There is even legislation for thát, the right to be 'forgotten'.

Those are the sorts of changes we need, because privacy only works if it works for everyone, without having to take all sorts of measures to achieve it. That is why privacy still works in the physical letter - its common sense you don't open it and if you do, that's an offense.

 

[Solaris17]

Have you decided on what software you would like to use? That’s what the threads about after all.