Tertiary timings on Ryzen

[tabascosauz]

Just tested both tRFC/2/4 manual (324-241-148) and tRFC/2/4 Auto (324-468-288). This is what I got. Top is manual, bottom is Auto:

Seems like I lost a little bit of Read/Write/Copy while latency remained the same.

That 54C was while stressing everything in my PC at 1.4v on DRAM. I have 4 sticks of Trident Z Neo. I dropped the voltage back to 1.35v to be safe. The memory is stable, ran countless memory tests.

However temp concerns me, because it's B-die. It still reaches close to 50C on memory stress testing, and might surpass it with the GPU in action. I hope it's not gonna be an issue on 1.35v.

My case airflow is good, I have a NH-D15S fan in the middle circulating air, and three 140mm Pure Wings 2 PWM High-Speed fans as case fans, one as exhaust and two as intake, in a Pure Base 500DX.

Did a cold boot test too. After unplugging the PC completely and turning off the PSU for 20 minutes, and putting it back in (simulating a cold boot problem I had with tRFC 288 @ 1.35v while cleaning my PC), it booted instantly with little to no time on the DRAM light. So I assume that problem is fixed on tRFC 324 @ 1.35v.

That's 6MB/s, 100MB/s and 80MB/s respectively, that's the very definition of negligible. Anything up to 0.5-1GB/s is margin of error on AIDA and that kind of variance can be easily achieved without even changing any settings, just run-to-run differences.

Over 50 is fine but if that's just during stress testing, that's pretty warm. I've had dual rank CJR on an ITX board peak at just under 50C in P95, but rising all the way up to 58C with a 2060 Super in action in just CSGO. Hynix isn't temp sensitive, so I didn't have problems, but can't say it'll work for B-die.

Granted, it was a 12.5L case, but tower coolers don't actually help that much with RAM airflow. Easiest way to get air flowing is with a small fan slapped directly on the RAM, or a downdraft cooler. My C14S does much more for my RAM than my Dark Rock Pro 4 ever has.

Only way to find out is to spend a few hours gaming in the most intensive game you can find.

Also run some membench to determine actual performance differences between manual/auto.

 

[Glaceon]

I'll just use the RAM as is at 1.35v on tRFC 324 and we'll see if anything happens. I'll run Kahru memtest overnight and see what temp it peaks at.

As for tRFC 2 & 4, I'll take your word for it and keep it on Auto. I heard the Ryzen IMC doesn't use these values at all

 

[Glaceon]

Good news. I am able to POST at 3800/1900 1:1 with the exact same optimized timings.

Even survived 20 minutes of TestMem5 before I got an error possibly due to high temps. I had 55C on a stick and 53C on the rest.

I will be getting some Arctic P14 fans which should be an improvement to my Pure Wings 2, and then I'll attempt to OC my RAM further. At least I know my CPU can handle FCLK 1900 now.

There is no reason why my RAM should be at 40C idle and 55C in a simple stress test WITHOUT gpu heat.

 

[Space Lynx]

Makes a lot of sense to just wait for new BIOS in a month or two. Lot of things should be more stable then.

 

[Glaceon]

I'll try again with my RAM at lower temps hopefully. If that doesn't fix it then I'll just stick with my timings and wait for a bios update

 

[thesmokingman]

Do you have decent airflow in the case? Those ram temps are wicked high.

 

[Glaceon]

I have three 140mm Pure Wings 2 High Speed. Two front intakes and one rear exhaust. Noctua NH-D15S cooler. Pure Base 500DX case. 4 sticks of 8 GB Trident Z Neo.

No idea why my RAM is so hot. I hope the Arctic P14's help since they seem to be the best 140mm fans on the market atm

 

[thesmokingman]

But is there airflow over the dimms? From what your temps are saying, the dimms are getting terrible airflow for cooling.

 

[Glaceon]

There are my two front intakes and the Noctua cooler's fan lowered to blow air over the dimms and VRMs. Look up the case and see how it looks for yourself. It has a mesh front.

I don't have active cooling on DRAM cuz lets be serious if that is a necessity then there's an issue with the case airflow.

Again, this shouldnt be an issue, no idea why my sticks are so hot.

 

[tabascosauz]

There are my two front intakes and the Noctua cooler's fan lowered to blow air over the dimms and VRMs. Look up the case and see how it looks for yourself. It has a mesh front.

I don't have active cooling on DRAM cuz lets be serious if that is a necessity then there's an issue with the case airflow.

Again, this shouldnt be an issue, no idea why my sticks are so hot.

Like I've already said, "airflow" in this context refers to a downdraft cooler or fan laying directly on top of the DIMMs. Tower coolers don't do jack shit. If you rely on case airflow alone, you're looking at the likes of a Noctua iPPC 2000 or 3000 running at 50% speed all the time, and even then you're pushing your luck. Not your average airflow.

Go watch some serious RAM overclockers on Youtube and how they deal with airflow. If someone's benching on an open-air bench with just 2 DIMMs and still uses a 92mm or two blowing onto the DIMMs to prevent temp-based instability.....they might be pushing higher voltage, that's true. But you also have four sticks jammed up next to each other, in an upright case where all GPU heat gathers towards the top of the case, without a downdraft cooler, and with bundled case fans (which, knowing Be Quiet, are pretty shite at pushing air).

If you haven't actually put your hand on the RAM and felt significant cool air coming all the way from the front fans, it's a moot point as to how theoretically great the case is. A mesh front is preferable, but it isn't magic, especially without capable fans.

You could pay this thread a visit. There are one or two experienced 4-DIMM B-die users on there who are struggling with thermals at 1.45-1.5V, even with a dedicated fan for the RAM.

Still confused as to why you're so worried, if your stability remains unaffected even in games.

 

[Glaceon]

The case fans aren't bundled, they're different higher RPM models. But not like I run them at more than 1200 rpm anyway.

If the Arctic fans don't help with airflow, I'll quit this and just keep my timings at 3600 cl16. Any additional benefit is not worth the hassle

 

[Zach_01]

Yeah you need a dedicated fan on those dimms. Its easy to do it on a case. You just place it on top of GPU back plate facing (close to) the dimms.
50+C is not good and samsung b-dies do cause errors. Keep it under 50C, better around 45C.

I have a 120mm (700~800rpm) right over dimms and no problems with errors even at 3800MHz and 1.47V. Blowing 24C air to them as I'm case-less. No dimm temp sensor...

 

[brandon7171]

I would say that they have little to no impact on overall latency.
tRFC seems to be the most important one beyond tCL.
Considering you're "only" at 3600MHz, maybe try hitting 3733 or 3800MHz 1:1 instead of worrying about the minor timings.
I'm on Hynix CJR chips and this is what I get with four modules at 3800MHz.
Keep in mind I can't tighten my timings as much as you have.

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Wow that is some crazy stuff on the Hynix die. I am having issues with my thermaltake Hynix die. When ever I turn my system off and the power drains with timings similar u have my computer will not boot. I load my old profile that I know is working and I don’t have that prob. So u may be able to tell me if this is a ram issue r a moth board problem? I am about to go Gskill ram which I know it’s B-die. I am just scared that my motherboard could be the problem. But I have in my head hoping it’s the ram for sure lol.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Wow that is some crazy stuff on the Hynix die. I am having issues with my thermaltake Hynix die. When ever I turn my system off and the power drains with timings similar u have my computer will not boot. I load my old profile that I know is working and I don’t have that prob. So u may be able to tell me if this is a ram issue r a moth board problem? I am about to go Gskill ram which I know it’s B-die. I am just scared that my motherboard could be the problem. But I have in my head hoping it’s the ram for sure lol.

Never had that problem. These sticks have been rock solid.

 

[Zach_01]

Never had that problem. These sticks have been rock solid.

The difference is that he has Hynix D-dies and not CJR...

 

[TheLostSwede]

The difference is that he has Hynix D-dies and not CJR...

I thought DJR was quite similar to CJR, no?

 

[tabascosauz]

The difference is that he has Hynix D-dies and not CJR...

I thought DJR was quite similar to CJR, no?

DJR is a newer revision of CJR, if JJR is the shitty CJR then DJR is the better CJR, but the unlike with JJR the differences should be minor. But Thaiphoon can and will incorrectly identify CJR as DJR, so we might never know what it really is without pulling the heatspreaders.

Like half of all instances of "RAM problems" it could be a number of things ranging from board+RAM incompatibility, board firmware not knowing what to do with training timings, user messing with obscure timings, IF can't reliably exceed 1800MHz, VSOC too low or too high, etc.

 

[Zach_01]

I thought DJR was quite similar to CJR, no?

My bad!
I didn't know that Hynix D-dies = DJR

 

[massaBeard]

I followed some of buildzoid's videos, hence my weird timings, but it posts, and have no errors at all and as you can see, great latency.