[TH] Each Bitcoin transaction uses 4,200 gallons of water, enough to fill a swimming pool, could potentially cause freshwater shortages

[Space Lynx]

Each Bitcoin transaction uses 4,200 gallons of water — enough to fill a swimming pool — and could potentially cause freshwater shortages

Water used for power and maintenance of Bitcoin servers adds more environmental issues.

www.tomshardware.com

Tom's Hardware had an interesting article today, I just read it... very interesting. Lot's of great explanation about the number was calculated, etc.

The studies also observe the bitcoin mining operation in Kazakhstan, which could face a significant freshwater shortage of 997.9 GL by 2030. This is mainly because China banned Bitcoin operations, and as a consequence, many mining operations shifted there, making the country the largest hub for Bitcoin mining.

So if you live in Kazakhstan, and you plan to have drinking water around the year 2035, you are probably fucked. Unless the UN steps in to help you. The USA seems to also have some issues with potential fresh water sources, but only if no mitigation is taken. So, will Bitcoin farms be responsible? Most likely not. lol what a joke. we could be using all that water instead for massive solar panel farms, but humans greed knows no bounds.

 

[mechtech]

hmmm

I thought water was a renewable resource.................at least that's what I remember in school with the water cycle................but that was long ago.

 

[Space Lynx]

hmmm

I thought water was a renewable resource.................at least that's what I remember in school with the water cycle................but that was long ago.

Water shortages are a real thing, sorry to tell you.

 

[LabRat 891]

Starting to love all these sensationalist articles on crypto.

"It's not REAL money" "It's not *actually* worth anything" "Look at all the XYZ resource we say it used!"

Meanwhile, in trying to attack crypto, they just prove it is indeed 'backed by hard resources'.

How much is your Dollar worth?

IDK, something something GDP?

Do you know how much it cost us all for that one buttcoin?!

IDK, like some oil and water, maybe?

Water shortages are a real thing, sorry to tell you.

Unironically, a "Wrong Place, Wrong Time" kinda problem.
Other than water molecules 'lost' to solar wind, etc., water is a cycle, and it's replaced by objects and debris entering our atmosphere.

Did Earth's Water Come from Meteorites?

At least some of our planet’s water was carried here by hydrogen-rich space rocks, but it’s not yet clear how much

www.scientificamerican.com

Meteorites may have brought water to Earth in the recent past

Meteorites might have carried water to Earth later than thought Some meteorites that fell to Earth relatively recently may have contained liquid water within the past million years. This means space rocks might have delivered water to our planet's surface throughout its history rather than just...

www.newscientist.com

 

[agent_x007]

Solar panels aren't profitable enough /s

If water supply is a problem, you won't get Bitcoin mining issue (because getting water to cool serves will eat too much of margin to be profitable at one point)
Also, what does it mean water get's listed as "used" ?
It can't be processed to be drinkable again ?
They cool servers with open loop instead of closed one ?

Lastly, this raport assumes NY/US servers are the same as Kazach ones.

 

[Space Lynx]

Oh, you are going to build a nuclear power plant for building and running desalination plant for the bitcoin operations in Kazakhstan? Very kind of you. Not sure how you plan to fund the nuclear power plant though, those people will be suffering in 2030+. The miners won't care they will just move on. haha humans are funny like that.

Solar panels aren't profitable enough.

If water supply is a problem, you won't get Bitcoin mining issue (because getting water to cool serves will eat too much of margin to be profitable at one point)
Also, what does it mean water get's listed as "used" ?
It can't be processed to be drinkable again ?
They cool servers with open loop instead of closed one ?

Lastly, this raport assumes NY/US servers are the same as Kazach ones.

By the time they move it won't matter for those people who are stuck there. You don't seem to care about the poor in this situation, a folly indeed.

 

[mechtech]

Water shortages are a real thing, sorry to tell you.

Yep, when people drink and use more for industrial purposes than it rains that will happen. Won't stop it from raining though. And I'm surrounded by water..........well it's frozen in the form of snow and ice at the moment

 

[Space Lynx]

Solar isn't profitable? I wonder why so many houses in England (a very cloudy country) manage to have so many residential solar panels on roofs... lived there last year and saw a shocking amount, but I guess it isn't profitable, so they must be idiots.

Yep, when people drink and use more for industrial purposes than it rains that will happen. Won't stop it from raining though. And I'm surrounded by water..........well it's frozen in the form of snow and ice at the moment

Kazakhstan was never much heavy on that resource of water to begin with, is the difference. Fly you fools.

 

[agent_x007]

Solar panel comment was a sarcasm on my part (added /s to make it more visible).

I still fail to see how bitcoin mining in US and Kazachstan get's the same water usage treatment though...
Report assumes bitcoin guys will set up the same way in both locations, which to me is weird since they want highest profits, and higher price of water is an issue that needs to be solved by money from those profits.

In short : Assumptions, are a great way to make a clickbait titles.

 

[Vya Domus]

This is such utter nonsense, one BTC transaction does not consume one gazillion billion gallons of water for required for cooling.

If you look up the estimated consumption of one transaction is 1000W per hour, you do not need 4200 gallons of water to cool that lol, what the hell, who comes up with these ludicrous claims ?

 

[Space Lynx]

Solar panel comment was a sarcasm on my part (added /s to make it more visible).

I still fail to see how bitcoin mining in US and Kazachstan get's the same water usage treatment though...
Assumptions, are a great way to make a click bait titles.

No one ever said it was the same. I said the US has possible similar problems, if you read the article that is what the article shows, but the article mainly focuses on Kazakhstan and explains it in detail the calculations made to come to said conclusion.

Also, I would argue fresh water is a non-renewable resource in the sense it is too expensive to transport it in great quantities, just ask anyone whose shower time has been limited due to drought restrictions.

This is such utter nonsense, one BTC transaction does not consume one gazillion billion gallons of water for required for cooling.

If you look up the estimated consumption of one transaction is 1000W per hour, you do not need 4200 gallons of water to cool that lol, what the hell, who comes up with these ludicrous claims ?

read the article:

How Is the Freshwater Consumption Calculated?​

The study includes both direct and indirect water footprints, both of which are from freshwater sources. These data centers consume water for cooling systems and air humidification to maintain these servers. Other sources of freshwater consumption are from its usage for electricity production required to keep these servers active. The consumption of electricity is constant, and so is the use of water.

From this observation, it is then calculated that 4,227 gallons of fresh water is used during every transaction.

 

[R-T-B]

Bitcoin and crypto in general is a dying industry and less and less onchain transactions are happening in general.

I don't see this being a longterm issue.

 

[Vya Domus]

read the article:

Maybe you should read it again, they quote that the water is needed for cooling and electricity.

First of all, as far as cooling is concerned there is no way in hell anything close to that figure comes down to cooling, so most of it comes from electricity consumption. Guess what, everything that has a microchip in it uses electricity, if you have a gaming PC you're using a couple of thousands gallons yourself I guess, why is that any more or less special ?

Bitcoin and crypto in general is a dying industry and less and less onchain transactions are happening in general.

I don't see this being a longterm issue.

Doesn't seem like it and also you got to take into account how much slower and more expensive each transaction is becoming over time, this doesn't show any sign of slowing down.

 

[Space Lynx]

Maybe you should read it again, they quote that the water is needed for cooling and electricity.

First of all, as far as cooling is concerned there is no way in hell anything close to that figure comes down to cooling, so most of it comes from electricity consumption. Guess what, everything that has a microchip in it uses electricity, if you have a gaming PC you're using a couple of thousands gallons yourself I guess, why is that any more or less special ?

they are specifically referring to the mega mining operations that are in place in Kazakhstan that formed after the Bitcoin mining ban in China. those operations, yes probably do use that much water. they aren't talking about all operations, just this specific incidence. unless I am reading it wrong. I don't know. Don't really care to be honest, humans are a failed species in many ways from my observations and it will all collapse, probably within our lifetime. Much like the moth to the flame, our greed knows no bounds.

 

[agent_x007]

No one ever said it was the same. I said the US has possible similar problems, if you read the article that is what the article shows, but the article mainly focuses on Kazakhstan and explains it in detail the calculations made to come to said conclusion.

Raport your article is based on :

By using the CCAF’s estimates on power demand and spatial distribution of Bitcoin mining following the approach by Siddik et al.
4
and using the same estimated water consumption factors for electricity generation per country, the water footprint of Bitcoin in 2021 was determined to be 1,573.7 GL (Data S1). This estimate closely aligns with the estimate of 1,572.3 GL by Siddik et al., with the minor discrepancy attributed to the exclusion of certain countries with a small contribution to the total water footprint in Siddik et al.’s study.

In "Siddik" source which is linked we can read :

Stoll et al. (2019) was the first study to use detailed data on mining hardware, facilities, and pools, along with the pool server, miner, and device IP addresses, to estimate the amount and location of electricity consumption and the carbon footprint associated with Bitcoin in 2018 .

There has previously been no spatially explicit analysis regarding the environmental impact of cryptocurrency and its water consumption is not well understood.

So basically, this article is based on raport that is based on raport, that doesn't have ANY hard numbers on anything water related, and at best uses guesstimated outdated data about power consumption for bitcoin generation.

 

[Space Lynx]

That's fair. Doesn't change my opinion about wasting resources when we should be focusing on saving the planet instead, but regardless you are correct the TH article is a little misleading in this case. I still think humans are fucked, I guess the yacht dwelling rich people will be ok, but yeah most of us or our offspring are prob fucked lol

 

[Nathaaab]

hmmm

I thought water was a renewable resource.................at least that's what I remember in school with the water cycle................but that was long ago.

It is as a whole. But only 3% of the Earth's water is freshwater. 69% of that fresh water is locked away in the form of ice in glaciers and polar ice caps, and 30% another is under the surface in the form of groundwater, which is effectively non-renewable, and not uniform around the globe. So it's unfortunately not so simple.

Edit : For example, only 2.8% of Kazakhstan is covered with water...

 

[Vayra86]

Oh, you are going to build a nuclear power plant for building and running desalination plant for the bitcoin operations in Kazakhstan? Very kind of you. Not sure how you plan to fund the nuclear power plant though, those people will be suffering in 2030+. The miners won't care they will just move on. haha humans are funny like that.



By the time they move it won't matter for those people who are stuck there. You don't seem to care about the poor in this situation, a folly indeed.

Guess what a nuclear power plant needs a LOT of, indeed...

At some point you're building a system of systems that has a net loss.
The overarching theme is, we need water for literally everything, and we need it in varying qualities. To get those qualities we need to filter water. Which comes with its own footprint.

 

[AnotherReader]

This is such utter nonsense, one BTC transaction does not consume one gazillion billion gallons of water for required for cooling.

If you look up the estimated consumption of one transaction is 1000W per hour, you do not need 4200 gallons of water to cool that lol, what the hell, who comes up with these ludicrous claims ?

The estimated power per Bitcoin transaction is 694.49 kWh which is almost three orders of magnitude more than 1 kWh. Compare it to a VISA transaction to see how wasteful Bitcoin is.

 

[Space Lynx]

yeah, that is precisely the point, its a matter of scale. and 8 billion humans consuming = the math doesn't work out. many people are going to suffer in the next decade or two, but we live in 1st world nations so we won't see it first hand.

I could also make the argument that 80% of the worlds coltan supply is mined by slaves in the warlord controlled mines of the DRC, the fact we turn on our smartphone or computer every day, or those bitcoin miner setups, and most likely the coltan that is in there came from slaves who live under horrific circumstances probably doesn't make you bat an eye eh? not in your control so you just move on with life eh? fucking all lying to yourselves and missing the bigger picture. this is all going to fucking collapse in our lifetime, and I am going to laugh as the chimpanzee dna in us all turns full inward to its animal side and we forget we are capable of reason. although, our species being capable of reason is possibly just an illusion, based on my current observations of the world. truly a shame, humans were capable of so much, yet so little.

 

[the54thvoid]

Other than water molecules 'lost' to solar wind, etc., water is a cycle, and it's replaced by objects and debris entering our atmosphere.

Did Earth's Water Come from Meteorites?

At least some of our planet’s water was carried here by hydrogen-rich space rocks, but it’s not yet clear how much

www.scientificamerican.com

Meteorites may have brought water to Earth in the recent past

Meteorites might have carried water to Earth later than thought Some meteorites that fell to Earth relatively recently may have contained liquid water within the past million years. This means space rocks might have delivered water to our planet's surface throughout its history rather than just...

www.newscientist.com

Just to point out from your quoted source that water is not being replaced from meteorites/comets these days:

These meteorites may have continued to supply water and organic compounds to Earth in the recent past

There are a few comments here from people suggesting there's nothing wrong with the earth's water. That's only true if we didn't need to use more and more of it. There are plenty of data points from many studies to show water usage going up and up across the globe. It's obvious considering the expansion of the human population. I mean, yeah, there's a water cycle, but that's not drinking water. That's all water, and it's a finite source of 'x'. Geographically, humans tend to live near fresh water, so we build near water. We farm close to it (or we use irrigation to do that). Access to clean water is an issue.

However, a closed loop solution for cooling isn't the same. We could arguably close swimming pools to cool down industrial equipment. Fact is, water as a resource isn't something to take for granted, and it needs to be considered when planning practically anything that needs it. But when used as a closed cooling loop then there's less of an issue once the water is sourced.



"Water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink."

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Each Bitcoin transaction uses 4,200 gallons of water — enough to fill a swimming pool — and could potentially cause freshwater shortages

Water used for power and maintenance of Bitcoin servers adds more environmental issues.

www.tomshardware.com

Tom's Hardware had an interesting article today, I just read it... very interesting. Lot's of great explanation about the number was calculated, etc.

The studies also observe the bitcoin mining operation in Kazakhstan, which could face a significant freshwater shortage of 997.9 GL by 2030. This is mainly because China banned Bitcoin operations, and as a consequence, many mining operations shifted there, making the country the largest hub for Bitcoin mining.

So if you live in Kazakhstan, and you plan to have drinking water around the year 2035, you are probably fucked. Unless the UN steps in to help you. The USA seems to also have some issues with potential fresh water sources, but only if no mitigation is taken. So, will Bitcoin farms be responsible? Most likely not. lol what a joke. we could be using all that water instead for massive solar panel farms, but humans greed knows no bounds.

You're letting your climate sensationalism take over. 74% of energy used on crypto is already renewable. Wind, solar, ece. It sounds liek you are blaming a former soviet block's terrible infastructure on bitcoin.

Oh, and that USA part made me LOL. Ever hear of this thing called the great lakes? We have 74% of the WORLD's supply of fresh water. We're not running out anytime soon. Now, those whom insist on living in california? Yeah, they're screwed, but thats what happens when you put 30 million people in a desert.

Solar isn't profitable? I wonder why so many houses in England (a very cloudy country) manage to have so many residential solar panels on roofs... lived there last year and saw a shocking amount, but I guess it isn't profitable, so they must be idiots.

Ever hear of this thing called a government subsidy? England is also MASSIVELY in debt, by definition, it cannot afford those.

Oh, you are going to build a nuclear power plant for building and running desalination plant for the bitcoin operations in Kazakhstan? Very kind of you. Not sure how you plan to fund the nuclear power plant though, those people will be suffering in 2030+. The miners won't care they will just move on. haha humans are funny like that.

Nuclear is a requirement for a green future. For someone who is so doom and gloom, you really dont want any actual solutions built.

By the time they move it won't matter for those people who are stuck there. You don't seem to care about the poor in this situation, a folly indeed.

Bleeding your heart out for the poor is a great way to end up flattened.

 

[Space Lynx]

I am pro nuclear, but it won't ever happen, so no point in talking about it.

Has nothing to do about caring for the poor or not, it has to do with the categorical imperatives by Kant, and we already see society collapsing precisely because it is a slippery slope in how you treat other people.

I'm unwatching thread, and not clicking on any quotes that direct me to this thread, I really just hope humanity figures it out before it's too late.

This might be our last hope, but hopefully it arrives in time:

In nuclear fusion milestone, Japan unveils the world's largest reactor

The planet's journey to clean energy use has taken another leap forward in Naka, Japan, where the world's biggest and most advanced experimental nuclear fusion reactor has...

www.techspot.com

 

[R-T-B]

Doesn't seem like it and also you got to take into account how much slower and more expensive each transaction is becoming over time, this doesn't show any sign of slowing down.

Are all those transactions onchain? I was under the impression a lot of transactions are offchain now, and those don't cost anywhere near as much (much more in line with a VISA charge).

If they are, then heck yes, that's a problem. I'll be the first to admit I'm not as up to date as I used to be.

 

[DavidC1]

First of all, human activity itself consumes something.

By that reasoning if you KILL all humans, then all will be ok. Hmm, sounds a lot like what the elites are thinking nowadays?

Also, the argument about "overpopulation" is flawed. Mouse utopia experiment shows the problem is targetted overpopulation(ie. cities) and it's a fundamental thing. Population can't increase forever in that case, because of the problems created it collapses. The experiment showed that once the problem started surfacing, the population collapsed as if off a cliff. Many parts of the world has been in the problem state for few years now. A very notable one being Japan.

Volume of Bitcoin transactions are negligibly small by finance standards, so they have time to improve. Since each transaction is slow and expensive anyways, for it to scale it would need to reduce the cost of said criticized transactions to have any chance to replace things like Visa/Mastercard. It's kinda like saying in 1945 that computers would NEVER be used en masse because ENIAC took up an entire room.

No, computers became small enough to push it under our desks, then on our lap, and then in our pockets.