Throttlestop on TigerLake-U i7 1165G7

[Primo]

You can undervolt 11th Gen H and K series processors. Unfortunately, Intel disabled or removed this useful feature from the G7 series.

Thanks a lot. That's too bad... Hoping for someone to come around the corner with a BIOS workaround or sth similar...

 

[Artorias38]

Hey I want to unlock this MMIO setting while I am on battery. So is there a possibility to change the TPL settings with the profiles?
Everytime I try it, there is a small window that says its coming soon.
Any news about that?

I tried this unlock feature and its really a game changer. Nice work! Really!

 

[unclewebb]

its really a game changer

I knew some users would find the Lock MMIO feature to be very useful.

coming soon

I promised the wife that I would find a new job before doing any more work on ThrottleStop. No new job so no new ThrottleStop features. At my age, I will probably be dead before this feature is finished.

 

[(00)]

At my age, I will probably be dead before this feature is finished.

Hmmm,,, in that case, please do not die until 2222 at least. Intel should be able to get something good together by then??? Something fast, that doesn't need a nuclear reactor to power it, would be nice.

m(_ _)m Sensei 先生

 

[nguyen]

I knew some users would find the Lock MMIO feature to be very useful.


I promised the wife that I would find a new job before doing any more work on ThrottleStop. No new job so no new ThrottleStop features. At my age, I will probably be dead before this feature is finished.

Why aren't you working for Intel already? your software improves their laptop CPU performance tremendously!!

 

[Cydras]

Hi,
i have now a Dell Latitude 7420 with an i7 1185G7.
When I bought it, I thought that the CPU had a 28W TDP limit, since it is specified everywhere with a 3GHz base clock. But in reality the base clock is 1.8GHz and the CPU is limited on 15W TDP.

PL2 is stock set on 60W, when the CPU is using this for 2 secs, it reaches 100°C and it throttles immediately to 15W and max 2,2GHz boost. Because of this i limited PL2 and PL1 to 28W.
I just wanted to know if I did everything correctly or if you have any suggestions for improvement. With these settings, the CPU always boosts to 3.1-3.2GHz all-core and stays on 82-88°C all the time.
SpeedStep is disabled in BIOS and ThrottleStop. The CPU all-core clock was measured with CineBench R20.

 

[unclewebb]

it is specified everywhere with a 3GHz base clock

That is partly true.

Product Specifications

quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

3.00 GHz is the TDP-up base frequency. For the 11th Gen G7 series, Intel no longer documents the true base frequency. If we took some time, I could get you to do some tests to try and prove that this is true but there is not much point. Intel CPUs spend most of their time using full turbo boost so they usually run well beyond their base frequency. These low power CPUs can also be forced to power limit throttle to speeds well below their base frequency. The base frequency is just a number that most Intel CPUs rarely operate at.

SpeedStep is disabled in BIOS and ThrottleStop.

Most modern computers no longer use SpeedStep technology. Your computer uses Speed Shift Technology (SST) so whether SpeedStep is enabled or disabled makes no difference. SpeedStep is obsolete.

PL2 is stock set on 60W

This is mostly marketing. Consumers love seeing a big powerful number even if the cooling system is under designed and cannot possibly run at that power level for any meaningful length of time.

CPU had a 28W TDP limit

Another play on numbers. The 1185G7 has a suggested 28W TDP-up power limit. The regular TDP limit is no longer documented. Typically these are 15W processors but there is no documentation to confirm or deny that. With similar 10th Gen CPUs, Intel would document TDP-up, TDP, and TDP-down. Now they only document the -up and the -down TDP values and have decided to leave out the TDP number in the middle. This gives them more room to cover their butt. As long as the CPU is operating somewhere within this new TDP range then all is good. I am sure someone discovered that a CPU with a 28W rating will sell more computers compared to the same CPU if it only has a 15W rating.

if I did everything correctly

Your settings look good. ThrottleStop is a useful tool so you can fine tune your CPU performance based on how much cooling you have available. The settings you are using seem to be a good compromise. If you want you could try bumping the PL2 power limit up from 28W to maybe 35W and then drop the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds or a little less. This might improve full load performance. If you are happy with 28W and 28W then leave it as is. The best power limits for you really depend on what you mostly do with your laptop. Some people prefer lower power limits because it helps reduce heat.

 

[Cydras]

Thank you very much for your answer

That is partly true.

I just looked at the specs on the Dell site, it says 3GHz to 4.8GHz Boost everywhere, so I assumed 3GHz Base Clock.
What I find very strange is that the CPU has @ 3GHz in the name. Look at my screenshot from Task Manager.
But the cooling system would definitely be too small for 3 GHz base clock

Most modern computers no longer use SpeedStep technology. Your computer uses Speed Shift Technology (SST) so whether SpeedStep is enabled or disabled makes no difference. SpeedStep is obsolete.

Yes SpeedStep is normally obsolete. But very stange is, SpeedStep and SpeedShift were both turned on together in BIOS.
After i have disabled SpeedStep, the CPU has boosted only max. to the base frequency of 1,8GHz.
Only when i open ThrottleStop, TurboBoost ist working correctly with only SpeedShift enabled.

Your settings look good. ThrottleStop is a useful tool so you can fine tune your CPU performance based on how much cooling you have available. The settings you are using seem to be a good compromise. If you want you could try bumping the PL2 power limit up from 28W to maybe 35W and then drop the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds or a little less. This might improve full load performance. If you are happy with 28W and 28W then leave it as is. The best power limits for you really depend on what you mostly do with your laptop. Some people prefer lower power limits because it helps reduce heat.

Thank you, i have tried PL2 35W and PL1 28W and it is better
Because of only 8 secs PL2 the temperatures rise only about 4°C

 

[unclewebb]

The G7 series CPUs are kind of like having 3 different CPUs in the same package. There are 3 different TDP levels; TDP-up, TDP, and TDP-down. Each TDP level has a different base frequency associated with it. The TDP level is programmable so manufacturers can easily decide in the BIOS how powerful of a CPU they want. An 1185G7 in your laptop might perform vastly different compared to the exact same CPU installed in a different laptop based on what TDP level and what power limits a laptop manufacturer has chosen.

The TDP level can also be controlled by the computer during runtime. When plugged in you might automatically get TDP-up mode and when you switch to battery power, the CPU might change to TDP-down mode or regular TDP mode. It takes some testing to try and determine what TDP modes a manufacturer has decided to use. Some keep things simple and just leave the CPU in regular TDP mode all of the time.

In your TPL screenshot, ThrottleStop shows that your CPU is currently in TDP Level 2.

Regular TDP = level 0
TDP-down = level 1
TDP-up = level 2

If you want to play with this setting, check the TDP Level box, change the value on the right hand side to 0, 1, or 2 and press Apply. You should see the TDP level value on the left hand side change. Changing the TDP level changes the rated TDP and this also changes the base frequency.

I thought this would be a useful feature to add to ThrottleStop but the problem is that the TDP level can also be changed internally by the EC. That means if you use ThrottleStop to request TDP level 2 and Dell sees that you are running on battery power, the TDP level might still change to TDP level 1, TDP-down mode. There is no way to override the internal TDP level settings. On some computers, this useful looking TDP level control feature in ThrottleStop might not be very useful at all. It will likely only be useful on laptops that do not also use the secondary TDP level setting.

To test what TDP level you are really in, run a simple stress test like the TS Bench and set it to 4 threads so it does not overload your cooling. Check the Disable Turbo box on the main screen. Your CPU should now be running at its true base frequency. This base frequency number typically varies depending on what TDP level you are in. You can change TDP levels while the TS Bench test is running and you should see the base frequency change. No idea if the Task Manager will report this correctly.

I believe that the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits you have entered into ThrottleStop can override the default TDP values that are associated with each TDP level. That is why monitoring for base frequency by loading the CPU and disabling Turbo Boost is a more fool proof way to determine what TDP level the CPU is really in.

Everything you ever wanted to know about TDP-level.

SpeedStep and Speed Shift were both turned on together in BIOS

I believe this is best. I think the older SpeedStep has control of the processor up until Speed Shift is enabled. That might not happen until late in the boot process. It is possible that if SpeedStep is not enabled then Speed Shift might get set to different values compared to if SpeedStep is originally enabled.

Some bios options are unpredictable. You might enable or disable something in the bios but there is no guarantee that the CPU will be setup to what you requested in the bios when you actually get into Windows. A lot of users swear that they know SpeedStep is disabled because they disabled it in the bios. When you get into Windows and check the SpeedStep register in the CPU, they might find that SpeedStep is enabled regardless of what they selected in the bios. A lot of Asus desktop boards have this auto SpeedStep "feature".

Because of only 8 secs PL2 the temperatures rise only about 4°C

I always recommend setting PL1, PL2 and the turbo time limit to what your cooling system can handle. If the cooling system can only dissipate 60W for a couple of seconds then it makes no sense to set the turbo time limit to the default 28 seconds. One should either lower the turbo time limit or they should lower the PL2 power limit or perhaps a little bit of both. It looks like you have learned how to get the performance - heat balance that is right for you and your laptop.

Edit - My desktop 10850K has a TDP-down mode but it does not have a TDP-up mode. In down mode the base frequency drops from 3600 MHz to 3300 MHz. Not sure if any OEMs ever used this feature on their desktop computers.

 

[Artorias38]

Hey, is there a way to lower the boost clocks? hp spectre 14 i7 1165g7
It was possible with another laptop i had before.

 

[unclewebb]

Try checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window and reduce the Speed Shift Max value to lower the maximum CPU speed.

 

[Artorias38]

I tried, but it is not affecting the value.. I set it to 128 but the value stays at 84 in the FIVR view.

 

[unclewebb]

Did you lower the Speed Shift Max value in the TPL window like I suggested?

Do not check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen.

 

[Artorias38]

No I didnt...
but now I did and the value is set to 38 max but the CPU goes still to 4ghz. Is it normal?

 

[snk4ever]

Just wanted to leave a thank you message here.
I'm using a Dell Latitude 7420 with i7 1185G7. I was suffering from very unstable framerate in Rocket League and when compressing a large set of files with 7z, a clock of around 2.2GHz.

Using ThrottleStop with MMIO lock on, PL1 to 28 instead and PL2 to 28. I forgot the stock values already but I think one was at 60 and the over at 35. I get around 3.5 GHz with 7z instead of around 2.2GHz and a stable framerate in Rocket League. It's like I have another computer !

 

[AlkalineKnight]

Just wanted to leave a thank you message here.
I'm using a Dell Latitude 7420 with i7 1185G7. I was suffering from very unstable framerate in Rocket League and when compressing a large set of files with 7z, a clock of around 2.2GHz.

Using ThrottleStop with MMIO lock on, PL1 to 28 instead and PL2 to 28. I forgot the stock values already but I think one was at 60 and the over at 35. I get around 3.5 GHz with 7z instead of around 2.2GHz and a stable framerate in Rocket League. It's like I have another computer !

Wanted to say a me too on this one.

I went through this forum when I first got my Dell 5420. The performance sucked for the CPU when it came to gaming on my eGPU, especiallycompared to my previous 8th Gen.

Window 11 then made it worse, but the ThrottleStop Beta with MMIO is all I've been looking for. I've managed to increase my TDP to sit at around 36w (PL1 37w/ PL2 40w) using a custom made laptop cooler keeping them Temps hot but level. Clock speeds during Cinebench are 3.6Ghz and 4Ghz when gaming.

Thank you so much.

 

[Artorias38]

Wanted to say a me too on this one.

I went through this forum when I first got my Dell 5420. The performance sucked for the CPU when it came to gaming on my eGPU, especiallycompared to my previous 8th Gen.

Window 11 then made it worse, but the ThrottleStop Beta with MMIO is all I've been looking for. I've managed to increase my TDP to sit at around 36w (PL1 37w/ PL2 40w) using a custom made laptop cooler keeping them Temps hot but level. Clock speeds during Cinebench are 3.6Ghz and 4Ghz when gaming.

Thank you so much.

Hey, what kind of costum cooler are you using?

 

[AlkalineKnight]

Hey, what kind of costum cooler are you using?

Hi Artorias38,

In short I am still continuing to experiment. However all tests are based around a fan shelf I built using 2 x Arctic F14 TC's The idea is that the temperature sensors are inserted into the heatsink fins of the laptop. So that they are quiet under normal load, then ramp up when the fins warm up.

My plight continues as proof of concept initial experiment prevented the CPU from going above 85'C. So it never thermal throttled. However PL2 eventually kicks in preventing my laptop going above 42W allowing for a steady 3.8Ghz across all cores.

Presently I continue to experiment with different heat sinks to prevent the Arctic F14's from even needing to spin up.