Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

[Susquehannock]

Regarding AMD cards in T3500 ...

You may be onto something in respect to brands, but I am more inclined to think mainboard Intel chipset driver is relevant. One reason being, diagrams of X38 architecture (T3400) and X58 (T3500) show the PCIe x16 slots connecting direct to the Chipset before BIOS. Second being, last updates from Dell were released two years after they moved on to the T3600 series so it is very possible most of the T3500 out there are running the original driver. Here is a link to the Dell page:

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/drivers/driversdetails?driverId=R0JHR

As for brands ...
AMD cards which I have installed personally (A17 BIOS) = one RX 480, - MSI brand, one RX 460 - MSI brand, and one RX 460 - Gigabyte brand. All went without a hitch. Crimson driver 16.12.2. Latest Intel chipset driver installed. 'A02'. The RX 480 is in my personal gaming system running Adrenalin 17.12.1 in Win10 now.

Went back to conversations on other forums to refresh my memory. One member got the usual 'error 43' when trying to install XFX brand RX 480 in their T3500. Same A17 BIOS and Crimson driver as I was running at the time. Far as I could tell they never did try updating the Intel chipset driver. Ended up returning the RX 480 and got 1060 instead. Member I was having a private message conversation with installed RX 470, ASUS brand without problem. This was after they followed my advice updating the BIOS and Intel chipset driver so can not be sure if that was what did it or not.

Welcome your thoughts on above and hope we can nail down the issue running AMD cards in these T3500.

 

[MortySimmons]

Hi Guys,

I came across this forum because I wanted to overclock my Dell 7020 (I7 6700 ) with ThrottleStop.
I like your enthusiasm a lot and it was a pleasure to read your journeys!

TS showed me the adjustments for the turbo multipliers so I upped them to max. (40) for all 4 cores - but nothing happened. I upped the voltage too without any success. It seems that the cpu ignores any change to these settings even on the main screen (set multiplier). Of course I gave the cores some workload to see if the multipliers get used. Maybe somebody can confirm this or give me a hint where to look or what to set in TS - Thanks!

The thread also raised my attention to some older machines. I have access to some T3400 one T5400 and one T960. The T5400 seems to be partially looted because one heat sink is missing and there is only one bank with 4Gb ram. When I have some time I will try to get the T5400 running to have a look at the specs - would be great to have a dual XEON to play with
Is it possible to overclock both CPUs with TS?

 

[Retrorockit]

Welcome your thoughts on above and hope we can nail down the issue running AMD cards in these T3500.

I will definitely try your method. I would love to have my Fury nano running because userbench doesn't accept Crossfire input. Also my 2-R9-285s in Crossfire would be sweet also.

Is it possible to overclock both CPUs with TS?

You need unlocked CPUs for TS to overclock. The only unlocked LGA771 CPUs are the QX9775. Also the FBDIMM RAM is pretty lame for gaming. Lot's of latency and the extra power draw kind of ties you down to multirail Dell PSUs. The T7400 supports 1600fsb and 150W CPUs so a pinmod to 4GHz on a pair of X5470s should be possible. I think the PLL is supported by SetFSB.
T 3400 and QX9650 is known good for 4.15GHz TS overclock easy. X38 has hidden 400fsb support,16GB RAM,and PCIe 2.0. Dual GPU slots too. T5400 is in the middle 333fsb, FBDIMMS.
TS certainly supports enough threads. I don't think anybody's tried it due to scarcity of unlocked SMP CPUs.
Here's what I've been up to. Finding out the Arctic GPU cooler fits inside the T3500 made it mandatory to remove the air raid siren AMD used for a fan from the HD6990. So I ended up with the HD6990 2 x120mm fan 3 slot card, the single 120mm fan Arctic 6970 3 slot card, and a sapphire 2x 92mm fan 2 slot HD6970. I'm so glad Susquehannock mentioned the T5500 MB swap and 4x GPU slots. Cutting out the 8x slots let me try a few configurations. GPU in slot 1 is the shit! The HD6990 ended up there in all the good configurations. The 3 slot I fan 6970 in slot 4 clears all MB cables and the 3 big heatsinks sticking up looks outrageous. Airflow is good to all fans. The 2 slot 6970 in slot 4 leaves a PCI slot clear and the 2 smaller fans are rated to cool that card. The single Arctic isn't sold for that application, but it is the same cooler as the 2 on the HD6990. I can paint the fans white to match the Arctic so it will look sweet also. I'll try to get some pics. up. The Acrctic GPU cooler kits can really help make a couple mismatched GPUs look like they belong together. Thy're super quiet also. The big hd 6990 cooler blocks the crossfire cable, and the trapdoor in the back needs some persuading but I thnk I can solve those.

 

[Susquehannock]

I'm so glad Susquehannock mentioned the T5500 MB swap and 4x GPU slots. Cutting out the 8x slots let me try a few configurations. GPU in slot 1 is the shit! The HD6990 ended up there in all the good configurations.

So this means you have a T5500 board running? Turns out mine was not bad after all. Will post more info once I do some more testing.

 

[Retrorockit]

Regarding the T3500 video issue. The problem I had in the past with other Dells was specifically related to the Dell BIOS video resolution. VESA Mode 103 which Dell required and AMD refused to provide from GCN3 on. Maybe the T3500 doesn't have that problem, but has another one related to the chipset driver which can be solved. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I don't have anything actually running. I'm still deciding what GPU setup to build around. I have the T3500 MB in the case as you saw in the photos. I cut out the back of both PCIe 8X slots so I could run 16X cards in them. There was a photo of a couple Quadros in them. I'm doing mockups to see what the T5500 configuration would allow me to do. I don't have a T5500 board, but it looks like one's in my future. It's actually possible to run 16X GPUs in 8X slots and the performance drop is almost unnoticeable on PCIe 2.0. Probaly even with the HD6990. If they're actually 4x then it's a 5% hit.

 

[unclewebb]

@MortySimmons - When overclocking with ThrottleStop, you need a CPU with an unlocked multiplier (6700K). Intel locks the multiplier on the regular Core i7-6700. You might be able to lower the CPU Core and CPU Cache voltage but this is not going to make any significant difference to performance.

 

[MortySimmons]

Thx guys! Looked into the T5400 and unfortunately it was in very bad shape and looted from everything good. So my journey with these toys ends here.
Will look into the other, more specialized thread to ask about the Dell 7020.

 

[Retrorockit]

Will look into the other, more specialized thread to ask about the Dell 7020

Looking into the Optiplex 7020 I'm not seeing any unlocked CPUs.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-OptiPlex-7020/6889
This is usually due to a CPU wattage limit that keeps the faster CPUs out. ASFAIK TS is the only option for overclocking those and when it doesn't work that's usually about it.
The T3400 would be a fun project. QX9650,T9303 cooler, and TS 6.00 will get you in the game. TJ258 is the better cooler assy. but requires some "fitting" to get it in there.
This is a TS overclock on one of those.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3530803

I should probably clarify about the cut out 8X PCIe slots. This is a known technique, but I have no idea whether or not it will work on a Dell, or a T3500. It was useful to me to see if the T5500 MB swap would be worthwhile. I've done the hardmod but haven't tested it so it's unconfirmed.
Now that I have the 3x GPUs in there I think I want the 120mm cage fan back. The original one got repurposed already and is in the XPS 420. I've ordered a Precision 690 fan assy. which gets me another 150x50mm fan and a 120mm cage fan with 7 GPU card support slots. The support slot is missing when using slot1 for the GPU and the HD 6990 with dual Arctic coolers is pretty heavy. Cutting out the rest of the bottom FDD cage should get enough room for this. I'll probably need to add an intake vent to the front cover also.

 

[Retrorockit]

I got the Scythe Ninja 4 cooler in yesterday. Looked at it,measured it etc. Slept on it. Got up this morning and cut the Ninja down to size. It's basically the same foot print as the macho 120 now except no offset. 122mmx122mm vs. 120x100mm and I can cut it down another mm on any side if i need to. It's about 3 fins taller. So it needs more than drilling holes to fit the cover. The Ninja has fan mounting tabs sticking out on all 4 corners of all the fins. I cut them off with a pair of small diagonal wire cutters. The Ninja is now passive. 20% more area,20% more heatpipes, a few extra fins. I'll probably put that mod on the back burner for now. I'll see how the 120 does. It's a pretty potent cooler in it's own right. It's design power rating is 200W. The Ninja should be good for about 240W. I might make a raised clear Plexiglass cover to resolve the clearance issues. I've never gone in for visual mods before but this one might change my mind. I'm usually happy if my mods look like they came from the factory.
Here are some photos of where this is at right now. 2 of the Arctic Trifire with Macho 120, and 2 of the same with Scythe Ninja 4 cooler.

View attachment 99708View attachment 99709View attachment 99710View attachment 99708View attachment 99709View attachment 99710View attachment 99711View attachment 99711View attachment 99708View attachment 99709View attachment 99709View attachment 99710View attachment 99711

 

[Susquehannock]

Thanks for info on aftermarket coolers. Been considering which to get.

Which reminds me .... do we have a list of known unlocked CPU that overclock with TS?

 

[Retrorockit]

W3570/80 i7-965/975 are the unlocked 4 core 8T 45nm, and w3680/90 are the 32nm 6 cores 12T. i7-980X/990X also. That's it for LGA1366 The Xeons are 1333 RAM, the i7s 1066.
LGA775 is all Core2 extremes 65nm X6800,QX6700/6800/6850 45nm QX9650, and 400fsb QX9770 and LGA771 QX9775 unlocked SMP. There are some mobile Core2 extremes also.
ASFIK if it boots an unlocked CPU TS can OC it. I haven't tested anything newer. I see a lot of people with 2500K in Dell Optiplexes but nobody seems to be trying this. A lot of computers keep the unlocked CPUs out with a CPU Wattage limit in the BIOS, or Chipset, and some OC will be limited by a weak VRM that won't support Voltage increases. I always check userbenchmark.com for unlocked CPUs running before I would buy one.
PM me if you want to do the Macho 120. I ended up making a drill fixture to get the holes in the right place. I underestimated it the first time I tried and it bit me.

 

[Retrorockit]

I'm going to speculate about the various PCIe slot versions on the T3500/5500 MBs. The T3500 has what appear to be 8X slots in 1, and 3 positions, and 16X in 2, and 4. The manual lists them as such. The MB is stenciled 4X at the 8X slots. I think this might be because Dell offered these with 2-16X GPUs and the bandwidth of the chipset is 36 PCIe lanes which would be 16+16+4. So 4X is all that would remain. The T5500 has 4-16X physical slots but lists 1, and 3 as 8X which is the same as T3500 and the chipset has the same 36 PCIe lanes.
I'm also trying to figure out the various versions of the T5500 MBs. CRH6C and D883F seem to be the most common. D833F has a fan on an added heatsink in front of the expansion slots, the other has a passive cooler there.
Then there's this.
Re: T5500 - Just One Model/Design?
This motherboard was for China and Russia only = 1D7WK
These three motherboards were for all other countries = R152N, WJ4MM, X8MJD (latest one)

 

[Susquehannock]

- Update:
Typing this post with working T5500 board (#0CRH6C) in T3500 case. As expected, nothing overclock friendly here.

Got to thinking about why the board would not boot on previous attempts. CPU compatibility perhaps? Sure enough. Intel page confirmed updated BIOS required to run Westmere in these Intel 5520 chipset boards. Saw that W5590 was on list for old BIOS and gave it a try. Fired right up and ran tests (screen shot below). Glad I bought this Nehalem even though it turned out to be locked. Assumed the T5500 board was shot.

Re-tried X5687 to confirm previous no boot situations were not an install glitch. No go. Same CPU error right at power up. Put W5590 back in, updated BIOS from 'A06' to 'A16' then re-installed X5687. Good to go. Ran Prime95 small FFTs for an hour or so to stress things. All good at 3.7ghz. (screen shot below)
Expect temps to drop nicely once premium TIM applied. Using generic white paste so as not to waste good stuff during frequent changes. One thing I like about these Dell. Quick & easy CPU change.

> Intel 5520 chipset CPU compatibility page:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006567/server-products.html

- observations
1] SpeedFan gives control of the small chipset fan (see images below) on the T5500 board.
2] SpeedFan will increase lower front fan #1 to CPU cooler to 100%. But will only increase upper front fan #2 to the RAM shroud by 60%. Given that is not the case with T3500 with everything else exact same, leads one to believe fan controller on the T5500 is to blame. By design or glitch, cannot say.
3] HW-monitor does not show full CPU speed under turbo mode with either processor. Again, this was not the case with T3500 board.

Not going to run a 2nd CPU riser with this T3500 power supply, obviously. Not enough wattage or connectors. But it is nice to know we have more board options. Should prove interesting to compare overclocks using ThrottleStop. Just wish we could increase wattage. That is going to be our big limitation here.

 

[Retrorockit]

With the unlocked CPUs wattage can be increased. Then VRM cooling will limit how far it goes. The chipset fan header will let me active cool my CPU/chipset cooler. I suppose speedfan, and HW Monitor probably weren't written with dual CPU workstation chipsets in mind.
Could you run the X5687 at userbenchmark.com to get a CPU score. That would make a good baseline for any later Nehalem overclocks to see if we gain anything. QX9650 45nm goes 4.15GHz easily. I would expect at least that from the W3570/80. Too bad there aren't any unlocked Westmere EPs. that would be a sweet gaming setup.
What are you running for a GPU, and did you try PCIe slot 1?
I just ordered a D883F MB for $40. I saw 3 caps between the MOSFETs where T3500 has 2. Maybe a little stronger VRM? The T5500 board just seems to have a little extra in a few places. I ust realized i may not have a CPU that will boot. Westmere W3690 is all I've got! I guess there's an unlocked nehalem in my future.
Maybe 2260 rpm is 100% for the Foxconn .9A. fan. The old 1.6A. Deltas ran 3800. You might un-pin the blue PWM wire from the connector and force full speed to see what you get.

I came across this at OCN X58 Xeon club.

I just read a long article about server RAM configurations on the Dual CPU Xeons with 5520 chipset. Some of it will apply to the single CPU systems also. I didn't save it or i would just link to it. But here's what I found out. RAM speed is determined by several factors. The first one is the CPU tier. Low end Xeons are 800, mid range are 1066, and high end ( which would be the unlocked ones that apply here) are 1333. The next thing is how many modules per channel. 1 per can go 1333, 2 per 1066, and 3 per (which only happens on dual CPU riser) is 800. The next thing is ECC RAM which exacts a small toll in performance. 3 channel is of course much preferred to 2 channel. Registered RAM is required for more than 2 modules per channel and can actually improve performance. With 2 modules per channel the RAM goes into 2n timing which doesn't happen with Registered RAM. So the best setup look like 3 modules 1 per channel, and if you have the T5500 MB there's no harm in using large Registered RAM modules. Registered also supports 8GB and 16GB sizes better. So 3 large modules is the way to go, and registered is OK if you can use it. By " if you can use it" usually means a dual CPU motherboard even with 1 CPU.
Thanks Susquehannock for the tip on registered RAM. New Samsung 8GB DDR3 1333 ECC RDIMM at Newegg $30 ea. This locks me in to the T5500 MB, but 8GB UDIMMS are $90 each!
AGAIN if you don't have the dual CPU T5500 MB you can't use these!! I've also ordered a W3570 so I'll have a Nehalem to boot from $15. Much cheaper than a QX9650! Plus 3 channel RAM and HT too!
I checked at Crucial.com and the Dell T3600 ( NOT the T3500) single CPU workstation can use RDIMMs, so there are exceptions. But proceed with caution

 

[unclewebb]

Finally got a W5580 installed into my T3500. The multiplier and turbo power limits are locked and it runs hot because it is 45nm. It is a D0 stepping so it is a hair better than a Core i7-920 but not much.

It is 2018. For the T3500, I recommend that you save up until you can afford a W3680.
6 cores, 32nm, unlocked multiplier, more MHz, less heat. Your T3500 will thank you.

 

[Retrorockit]

I agree about the W3680/90, but I just ordered a W3570 so I have a Nehalem around in case I come across a BIOS that doesn't support Westmere yet. $15 is pretty painless. But they're cheap for a reason.
A little bit more on the RAM speed/configuration issue. To Get 1333 speed and 3 channel configuration there are only a couple possibilities. 3X4GB=12GB, or 3X8GB 24GB. Nothing in between.
With RDIMM systems 16GB modules become possible for 3X16GB=48GB. We're going to be behind the FSB overclockers in this area so there's no point in giving away anything we don't have to.

 

[Susquehannock]

Good to know TS will allow me to up the wattage once an unlocked W3680 reaches my door. Going from W3565 to X5687 really woke up my RX 480 gaming box. Not surprising going from Bloomfield to Westmere. Looking forward to seeing how an overclocked Westmere changes things.

Keeping things simple running Quadro 600 in this guinea pig box. Have only tried PCIe x16 slot #2 (blue one) in either 3500 and 5500 board thus far. Here is the BenchMark you requested:

> >
UserBenchmarks: Game 14%, Desk 45%, Work 34%
CPU: Intel Xeon X5687 - 62.6%
GPU: Nvidia Quadro 600 - 4.1%
HDD: WD WD2502ABYS-18B7A0 250GB - 59.6%
RAM: Unknown 6x2GB - 50.3%
MBD: Dell Precision WorkStation T5500
> >
As for RAM, looking at service manual the T3500 board will run tri channel provided same size modules are in each of the primary slots (1,2,3). 3x1gb=3gb etc ... and I can say from experience that it will run tri channel with mixed type modules provided they are in pairs. Have been running tall one sided Samsung modules along with short two sided Kingstons (6x2gb=12gb tri channel) in my gaming T3500 for about 15 months.

[edit]
Regarding registered 1333 ECC ... looks like the market has changed on used server RAM since I first aquired this T5500 board about 10 months ago. Prices have over doubled. 6x4gb=24gb was under $50. Not any longer. Thankfully 1366 Xeon have not been affected, yet.

 

[Retrorockit]

As for RAM, looking at service manual the T3500 board will run tri channel provided same size modules are in each of the primary slots (1,2,3). 3x1gb=3gb etc ... and I can say from experience that it will run tri channel with mixed type modules provided they are in pairs. Have been running tall one sided Samsung modules along with short two sided Kingstons (6x2gb=12gb tri channel) in my gaming T3500 for about 15 months.

It's not that it won't run with 6 slots populated, it's that it won't run 1333 speed with 6 slots populated. It will drop down to 1066 speed. You will lose one of the advantages of the unlocked Xeons.
But of course if that's what you already have that's a consideration too. You should get 1333 with 3x4GB, 1066 with 6x2GB, or 6x4GB and 1333 with 3x8GB. The FSB overclockers are starting at 1333 and going up from there to 1600-1800. We can't match that, but we can try to keep what we've got. I needed to buy RDIMMs so I was in a position to choose.
X5687 62.6% CPU relates to a QX9650 @ 4.15GHZ= 57%
Read back a few pages and Unclewebbs W3680 @ 4.266GHz. is there. Screenshots and everything. Page 3.
Here's his userbench. 87% CPU.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7540614

 

[Susquehannock]

I am probably leaving some speed on the table running mis-matched rank modules too.

Came across a brand new listing on eBay - 8gb registered modules 'buy it now' at $20 each. By the time I clicked to buy three someone snagged up the whole lot of ten.

 

[Retrorockit]

It's maybe 3% or so. Not a big deal. I could have bought 3x2GB and added them for 18GB, or 3x4 GB for 24GB, but finding out how it works 3X 8GB looked good to me.
I put the HD6990 in slot 4 and the 24 pin actually plugged in. I'm working on the 120mm cage fan with 150mm CPU fan. It's looking pretty good. I'll need a 25mmx120mm fan, the 38mm thick won't work with the housing I have. Air flow isn't ideal but my CFX cable issue is resolved. My T5500 MB is here. I need to go look at it. I saw some 8GB RDIMMs for less than I payed, but new Samsung from Newegg for $30 is good enough for me.

 

[Retrorockit]

Here's an update on the Thermalright Macho 120 vs. Scythe Ninja 4 CPU cooler. The Scythe mounting kit won't interface with the T3500/5500 MB studs at all. The TR Macho 120 kit has the same threads as the MB. Not only that it has everything needed to adapt from the MB to the Scythe mounting brackets. So the Macho 120 mounting kit is almost a prerequisite for the Scythe Ninja.
The Macho 120 is rated for 200W but that's with it's .2A. 46cfm fan. The T3500 .9A. fan is 156cfm, and the Precision 490 150x50mm fan swap is 256cfm. So even though it costs more and is hard to locate the Macho 120 is probably the way to go. For those who haven't been watching it does require drilling holes in the cover to clear the heatpipes. The Scythe is even taller and would require spacing the cover up. There is a smaller version for the less adventurous. The Macho 90 rated for 160W with it's little 92mm fan. It's 135mm high so the HDD tray will probably have to go.

 

[Hardrock351w]

Just signed up to be a part of this thread!
I've been sitting on a i7 990x for about 8 years, (I won it in a contest) but I've never bothered to get a motherboard for it because of the price.
So about 2 weeks ago I walked into a local computer repair shop and asked if he had any Lga1366 boards that I could try and he ended up giving me a t3500 for $80 CAD!
It was missing the hdd and video card, but I didn't care because I already had those.
All in all with the 990x and TS, I've gotten it up to a 31x muliplyer @ 4.1 ghz..... Any higher and the good ole bsod.
Very impressed with this setup!

 

[unclewebb]

All in all with the 990x and TS, I've gotten it up to a 31x muliplyer @ 4.1 ghz

My T3500 - Xeon W3680 tops out at about the same speed. The 31 multiplier is OK for pretty much everything. For Prime95 - Small FFT stability, I have to drop it down to 30. The 32 multi is good for some screenshots and a nice userbenchmark score but it is not very stable beyond that. On a board like the T3500 with no voltage options in the bios, I think the W3680 / W3690 and their twins, the 980X and 990X are all going to top out right around this speed.

For anyone shopping, go for one of the Xeons. They are usually cheaper and the Xeons also have the advantage that they support DDR3 - 1333 memory whereas the Extreme CPUs only support DDR3 - 1066. Edit - Looks like the 990X also supports DDR3 - 1333.

It would be interesting to see an overclocked T3500 vs Ryzen if both were running the same GPU. Both platforms have similar max MHz. Ryzen should have a little better IPC and memory performance but for many apps, there might not be that much difference between the two. With the money you save, you could spend more on a GPU and you might end up with better gaming performance. Too bad review sites didn't do more retro reviews like this, hint, hint!

Edit - Remember to bump up your TDP / TDC to avoid any full load throttling.
31.00 multi across all 12 threads.

 

[Hardrock351w]

Actually my ram is showing 1333mhz under the bios with my 990x

 

[unclewebb]

Can you check your ram speed with CPU-Z? The Intel docs are not always correct.

https://ark.intel.com/products/5258...Edition-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI