Time to update the motherboards layout!

[SL2]

my answer was in regards to:
"The thing is, unless you're 5 years old, you don't have that perspective when sitting.
What do I care, I'm not 5 anymore so I've stopped staring at rotating fans.."

Oh wow, that's what this is about? Not the whole new form factor discussion, ie 95 % of my post? My post wasn't directed at everyone in the world. It was a direct reply to the OP who wants to show of his/her "beautiful GPU".
You clearly stopped reading after that quote, and missed that part where I made a suggestion obviously requiring transparent panels.

I still think the idea of putting the GPU at the top of the case isn't a good one in terms of visibility. You still haven't proved me wrong, well except for lowering the chair all the way.

I never said my ideas were better than everyone else's, and I'm not sure where you got that from. I'm sorry if I offended you.

 

[Waldorf]

none of what you said offended me, just dont understand why ppl feel the need to post: "unless your a 5/10y old" in the first place,
as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

i providing multiple reason why i/others have "windows", that have nothing to do with looking at spinning fans/RGB,
nor does the look ppl prefer automatically make them of single digit age..

multiple comments have i stated why we dont really need to put the gpu on top, in the fist place,
but for those that really do prefer a different location, it can be done, without requiring redesigning the MB.


probably would have been clearer if you had cared to read (my) previous comments,
not just scrolled to the bottom and post (so to speak), like we all sometimes do

 

[SL2]

none of what you said offended me, just dont understand why ppl feel the need to post: "unless your a 5/10y old" in the first place,
as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Well few people over 5 are short enough to see a case the way they're shown in ads, that's why. IT DOESN'T SOLVE THE OP'S PROBLEM!! For the second time, that's why.
I don't expect you to understand everything in the world.

Then I just stated I (PERSONALLY) don't look at fans anymore.

And finally, and again, I posted a suggestion that requires glass panels. Yet you continue on hinting that I'm on some sort of anti glass panel crusade.

Which is my point, you're telling me that I should read your previous posts, which I didn't reply to. At the same time, you're replying to me, without reading mine. Otherwise you'd know that I wasn't against glass panels. Hypocrisy.

This is, again, offtopic. Give it a rest.

 

[evernessince]

Maybe this approach will fit better for some airflow optimization.

Could be appealing to high end buyers but the cost to print those air guides / vents and the ability to only use them with a specific set of parts makes them infeasible for the vast majority of the market. In essence it's competing with DIY liquid cooling and liquid cooling is likely still the superior option.

 

[AusWolf]

Nah! Sorry, and no disrespect meant but that really is nonsense. You are not looking at the big picture, but rather your own, much smaller personal desires and trying to impose them on every one else.

For one, current ATX form factor motherboards can already have 1, all the way up to 6 M.2 slots with 2 or even 3 being common. Very few users will EVER need more, especially as these drives keep getting bigger and bigger.


Sorry, but that is more total nonsense and 100% your personal opinion - totally subjective.

Only a very few people could give a rat's a$$ about appearances, just as a very few care about RGB lighting.

Does that improve performance? Decrease heat production? Increase efficiency? Improve performance? (worth repeating). No, no, no, and double no.

Many, in fact MOST computer users care what is happening on our monitors, not what is going on inside our cases. In fact, I want... no... I demand my cases sit quietly and discreetly off to the side and NOT draw attention to themselves. I do NOT want such non-productive "distractions" to draw my attention away from what is really important and that is what is happening on my monitors.

I think moving the hottest part of your PC - the GPU to the top (where hot air naturally goes) could be worth the effort. Other than that, I'm not against OP's ideas, I just see them as kind of pointless.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Good old rgb bling effects hehe

 

[Bill_Bright]

I think moving the hottest part of your PC - the GPU to the top (where hot air naturally goes)

Yes, in a passively cooled case, as mentioned before. But, as also mentioned before, case fans essentially negates any "hot air rises" effect.

 

[ARF]

Yes, in a passively cooled case, as mentioned before. But, as also mentioned before, case fans essentially negates any "hot air rises" effect.

That's false. My own case has a fan on top and the top back side wall is always warm or warmer/hot.

I think moving the hottest part of your PC - the GPU to the top (where hot air naturally goes) could be worth the effort.

That's also not true. The GPU is the hottest PC part, there is basically nothing else beside the CPU that generates even remotely close quantities of heat.
When you move the GPU on top and put it in its own cage, you will effectively isolate it from the other PC parts and make everything much cooler, quieter, and GPU itself much smaller because it won't require so large heatsinks!

Sorry, but that is more total nonsense and 100% your personal opinion - totally subjective.

Only a very few people could give a rat's a$$ about appearances, just as a very few care about RGB lighting.

Does that improve performance? Decrease heat production? Increase efficiency? Improve performance? (worth repeating). No, no, no, and double no.

Many, in fact MOST computer users care what is happening on our monitors, not what is going on inside our cases. In fact, I want... no... I demand my cases sit quietly and discreetly off to the side and NOT draw attention to themselves. I do NOT want such non-productive "distractions" to draw my attention away from what is really important and that is what is happening on my monitors.

You are wrong about everything here.

Does that improve performance?

That's the idea. Yes.

Decrease heat production?

Yes.

Increase efficiency?

Yes.

Improve performance? (worth repeating).

Yes.

No, no, no, and double no.

Read for your information:

About this item​

• Revolutionary 90 degrees motherboard mounting enables stack effect for natural heat convection
• All black one-piece front panel inherits signature RAVEN styling touches
• Top 120mm fan slot completes overall airflow and supports AIO liquid cooler
• Independent PSU intake vent prevents waste heat circulation
• Slim slot-loading optical drive slot
• Two 2.5" SSD/HDD slots on the back plate
• Top-mounted stealth I/O ports include microphone, audio and two USB 3.0 ports
• Includes two Air Penetrator 180mm fans for superb performance and quietness

Amazon.com

 

[kapone32]

That's false. My own case has a fan on top and the top back side wall is always warm or warmer/hot.



That's also not true. The GPU is the hottest PC part, there is basically nothing else beside the CPU that generates even remotely close quantities of heat.
When you move the GPU on top and put it in its own cage, you will effectively isolate it from the other PC parts and make everything much cooler, quieter, and GPU itself much smaller because it won't require so large heatsinks!



You are wrong about everything here.



That's the idea. Yes.



Yes.



Yes.



Yes.



Read for your information:

About this item​

• Revolutionary 90 degrees motherboard mounting enables stack effect for natural heat convection
• All black one-piece front panel inherits signature RAVEN styling touches
• Top 120mm fan slot completes overall airflow and supports AIO liquid cooler
• Independent PSU intake vent prevents waste heat circulation
• Slim slot-loading optical drive slot
• Two 2.5" SSD/HDD slots on the back plate
• Top-mounted stealth I/O ports include microphone, audio and two USB 3.0 ports
• Includes two Air Penetrator 180mm fans for superb performance and quietness

Amazon.com

I had this case Silverstone Raven B2. It would be cool today indeed if it had proper radiator support it would be great. I do believe some cases today allow for you to mount your MB in that orientation.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yuck that silverstone case kills the top area with the psu
So you's also want the gpu up there too ?

 

[ARF]

Hi,
Yuck that silverstone case kills the top area with the psu
So you's also want the gpu up there too ?

No, the PSU has to remain at the bottom. The Silverstone case is just an example that some companies do work in this direction - to rearrange the PC case parts locations.

 

[freeagent]

I like my case. Nothing gets hot.. no hotspots.. no worries.

 

[HTC]

With the GPUs becoming heavier and heavier, i'd figure a way to have them VERTICALLY would be best.

If it's TOO MUCH TROUBLE to mess with the ATX standard, then have the case makers figure out a way to ENABLE rotating the board 90 degrees (have BOTH options, in full tower cases only).

Currently, the back connectivity is ... @ the back: depending on the size of the case, it can even be on the bottom INSIDE the case (or up top, on the outside), no?

Bad idea?

 

[ThrashZone]

No, the PSU has to remain at the bottom. The Silverstone case is just an example that some companies do work in this direction - to rearrange the PC case parts locations.

Hi,
Okay sorry thought that was your case my bad

Might help if you filled out your system spec's info on profile

 

[ARF]

Look at this case:

Stylish revolution: With the REV220 ATX midi tower, an elegant case design with subtle RGB lighting meets a new concept in PC case configuration. The hardware components are installed vertically around a mainboard which has been rotated by 90 degrees. This results in an unconventional eye-catcher, which is displayed behind the extra-large side panel made of tempered glass. With five pre-installed 120 mm fans and a mesh grille case cover, a powerful airflow is always ensured, allowing actively cooled graphics cards to be used without any compromises. A cable compartment under the top panel as well as a power supply tunnel on the bottom panel both ensure a tidy appearance and stylishly complement the elegant design.

REV220 - sharkoon.com

en.sharkoon.com

 

[DaemonForce]

Revolutionary 90 degrees motherboard mounting enables stack effect for natural heat convection

• All black one-piece front panel inherits signature RAVEN styling touches
• Top 120mm fan slot completes overall airflow and supports AIO liquid cooler
• Independent PSU intake vent prevents waste heat circulation
• Slim slot-loading optical drive slot
• Two 2.5" SSD/HDD slots on the back plate
• Top-mounted stealth I/O ports include microphone, audio and two USB 3.0 ports
• Includes two Air Penetrator 180mm fans for superb performance and quietness

Very cool, I like it. I'm looking at my big chonker server tower case and the cooling layout and then look over at my rack. A lot of the screeching about temps could probably be drowned out by simply flipping the case on its side.

Maybe add in some airflow direction chambers, another way to mount the vertical heat exchanger...Should be fine.
You could do a push-pull arrangement mounted just above the GPU and it would naturally pull heat away from the system. Genius.

 

[Frick]

I think the GPUs placement should be on top, preferably in a separate compartment, isolated from the other PC parts, just like today we put the PSUs in own compartments.
Also, the GPUs should be turned with the fans upward, and the fans should pull hot air from the PCB upward, in order to naturally accelerate the heat dumping convection process.
Heat moves upwards. Hot air is lighter, cold air is heavier.

Absolutely no exhausts on the top please, that's where things drop into the case.

 

[HTC]

Look at this case:

REV220 - sharkoon.com

en.sharkoon.com

Considering how easy it would be to add / remove stuff from "the back plate" with it facing DOWN, having it facing up like this case in the video review would DEFINITELY be better, but IT DOES NOT entirely negate the possibility of it being down.

In light of the reviewer's opinion, the fact that there MAY BE problems with fan connections due to the board's placement, the case maker could simply provide extra fan splitters to make up for it.

 

[Vayra86]

So, because the motherboards remain unchanged for 20 or even 30 years, I think the legacy motherboards layout and the components placement do not work optimally and efficiently any more.
We've got extremely power hungry and hot CPUs and GPUs which are placed next to each other and dump hot air over each other.

I think the GPUs placement should be on top, preferably in a separate compartment, isolated from the other PC parts, just like today we put the PSUs in own compartments.
Also, the GPUs should be turned with the fans upward, and the fans should pull hot air from the PCB upward, in order to naturally accelerate the heat dumping convection process.
Heat moves upwards. Hot air is lighter, cold air is heavier.

View attachment 343155

Few issues here.

- Airflow. You're obstructing at least one face of the case where air can either enter or escape: the top. The graphics card will block it so it cannot be exhaust for the case, but you seem to think it should. You say fans should pull there. So we're pulling hot case air from below on an exhaust path, past the hottest part in it. You're effectively reducing the temperature delta for your GPU which means its cooling solution will not only not push but pull but will also be less efficient because the temp difference is lower between the GPU and the already heated air coming through it. Good contender for worst benchmark scores in 3DMark.

- How many PCIe slot spaces are you preparing for your topside single GPU PCIe slot? 2? 3? 5? Going to be interesting wrt motherboard spacers and all that, having a variable distance on the top end of the board. Because the lower you drop the PCIe slot to accomodate for the ever more obese GPUs, the more everything else has to drop along with it. CPU along the middle? Not in your example, but it could happen. So now you've got the CPU cooler positioned at random heights throughout cases. Interesting to say the least, especially for board and case companies.

- You are not accomodating more PCIe slots than one for the GPU? Or are you placing the extra ones below the M2? And what about your VRMs?

Basically its a literal hot mess. Case cooling is probably akin to a maelstrom.

Heat rises, but you can influence airflow direction. You seem to have gone with the base principle of heat rising, but that on its own has never, will never, and can't ever properly cool any actively cooled system. If you add fans, you need to control the airflow throughout the case and provide an optimal path for it. Your design is doing the opposite: it impedes the suggested airflow path, and on top of that, uses fans in the least favorable setup (pull) as a means of cooling the hottest component.

Or for a more simplified example: Why do you think data centers place racks horizontally and squeeze air through them? If heat rising was effective, they could've just placed them vertically no?

 

[jxdking]

The layout mainly depends on the cpu pin out. VRM should be near to the cpu power plane, the dram dimms should be near the cpu dram interface. You get the idea. Thus, unless intel or amd change the cpu pin out first, you won't see major layout change from the boards.

One thing I want to add. m.2 laying flat on the board is just stupid. m.2 should be put on the daughter board or mounted vertically to save board space.

 

[Vayra86]

Absolutely no exhausts on the top please, that's where things drop into the case.

All that means is you need to turn those Delta's up a bit more

 

[Waldorf]

@ARF
if your case gets hot, you dont have enough airflow to remove the heat, either from not enough fans,
or not enough air being moved by them.
ignoring i can have convection that heats up other stuff,
same way i can feel the heat of the sun in winter, while its 0* air temp,
but has zero to do with "heat rises" aspect.

i understand your trying to get to think about doing things differently,
but virtually all of the things you say bother you about the gpu (heat/eff/perf etc), all except visibilty
are fixed, if your using water cooling.
even if its just for the cpu (rad exhaust top/side), as it drops the case temps, thus the gpu gets colder air.

all this while cheaper and easier to full fill, than changing layout of ports/slots on the the mb,
and also being already available.

@jxdking
enough boards out there with 4-6 slots, all flat, no other stuff needed (as in cheaper, or "better" board as no funds wasted on additional parts),
and with sli dying, you are not even having to chose between things, to get those all on the mb, incl proper heatsinks for them.

find the M.2s:

 

[freeagent]

The biggest difference that I noticed while running the CPU up top in an inverted setup was the CPU ran cooler because it did not have a GPU underneath. The GPU itself did not really change much temp wise. I tried this in two different stackers, so not the best example..

 

[Vayra86]

I think moving the hottest part of your PC - the GPU to the top (where hot air naturally goes) could be worth the effort. Other than that, I'm not against OP's ideas, I just see them as kind of pointless.

No, you want the GPU closest to where you draw the coolest air in. Because that is where the temp delta is highest. Our current design with a front intake is perfectly fine that way, because the intake serves cool air not to just the GPU first, but all critical components all at once, even passing the DDR (and storage at the bottom/middle!) before getting heated up by CPU. Yes, you get some heat from the GPU going upwards but that somewhat hotter exhaust from the GPU is then again cooled by that same airflow before it reaches outtake at the back.

That whole design emphasises how effective it is to have a single directed airflow throughout the case. It doesn't even matter much what components you put in it - they're all provided with fresh air. Also, let's consider the fact that we're cooling the components in the case. We're not cooling the case, its just a tunnel we use to push air through.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Yep most front/ top filtered cases are so good manufactures keep trying to suffocate them with narrow slots or glass panels in front of them to mess them up hehe