TPU's Core i7 Overclocking and Feedback

[Urukland]

You can disable everything in BIOS, the multi will still be lost at temps above 60C I beleive.

No. There are options in bios to disable tdp/thermal protection and prevent the multiplier drop in full load.

 

[PaulieG]

With Turbo enabled the multi will drop to 20x once thermal temps have hit 60C I beleive, I did read it somewhere..... and there is no way of disabling that.

Not on the boards I've used. I've never lost my 21x, even up to 75c.

 

[Tatty_Two]

No. There are options in bios to disable tdp/thermal protection and prevent the multiplier drop in full load.

As I understand it, the thermal monitoring does not affect turbo mode, just the safe TDP limits of the CPU without turbo mode............

 

[Urukland]

As I understand it, the thermal monitoring does not affect turbo mode, just the safe TDP limits of the CPU without turbo mode............

In my DFI TDP/TDC protection must be disabled if i want to use x21 multiplier. If not, multiplier drops to x20 when cpu reachs a certain temp/tdp.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Not on the boards I've used. I've never lost my 21x, even up to 75c.

I am not suggesting you have, I am meerly stating that Intel says you have , I cant find the damn thing I read on the subject but as I am at work I had a quick dig on the Intel site, this does not show a specific temps though so take a look at the linky, it's the Intel White paper on Turbo boost, in itself an interesting read and not very long surprisingly, check out 2.1 where it talks about "dependancies", now as I understand it "dependancies" cannot be switched on or off in the BIOS, hence my previous comment to Urukland, IDK if it has or not affected you, maybe the temp threshold is higher and with your water setup it has kept temps low enough, I do know that I did a WPrime run at 4.2gig (about the limit I can do an intensive bench on air) with my old DFI board and I was monitoring the cores/clocks and I visibly saw it drop to 20x after about 25 seconds.

http://download.intel.com/design/processor/applnots/320354.pdf?iid=tech_tb+paper

 

[Tatty_Two]

At last! i have just found a couple of pieces that say it's 80C so that would explain it.

 

[Thrackan]

So this is an actual temperature threshold, and not a TDP threshold.

Makes sense, since a TDP threshold would shoot down the multi even if your cooling was adequate.

Say for example, a TDP threshold would be set at 150w of heat generation, then it would be 150w regardless of how much heat you draw away... That would kind of beat up the purpose of extreme cooling.

But since it's an actual temp threshold, that makes a lot more sense. Better cooling = better OC ability.

 

[Urukland]

According to what eva2000 posted in XS about DFI x58,
TDC/TDP & TM Protection (Turbo mode effects): In CPU Feature section of bios the Set VR Current Limit Max and Thermal Management Control options control TDC/TDP and other temperature related throttling for Core i7 cpu.

* TDC = over current protection which default Vcore OCP max is 140A (for CPU PWM IC). At >70A, TDC is tripped, it will disable Turbo mode - thus you may see your cpu multiplier drop by 1x or 2x.
* TDP = thermal design power according to DFI is tripped at around >80W which will also disable Turbo mode
* Set VR Current Limit Max = Enable to disable both TDC and TDP protection functions thus allowing Turbo mode to run without any TDC/TDP protection.
* Thermal Management Control = Tripped when core temp is >90C, Turbo mode will disable. At >105C core temp, will force system shutdown.

So i assume that some board manufacturers adjusts temp threshold as they want.

 

[Tatty_Two]

According to what eva2000 posted in XS about DFI x58,
TDC/TDP & TM Protection (Turbo mode effects): In CPU Feature section of bios the Set VR Current Limit Max and Thermal Management Control options control TDC/TDP and other temperature related throttling for Core i7 cpu.

* TDC = over current protection which default Vcore OCP max is 140A (for CPU PWM IC). At >70A, TDC is tripped, it will disable Turbo mode - thus you may see your cpu multiplier drop by 1x or 2x.
* TDP = thermal design power according to DFI is tripped at around >80W which will also disable Turbo mode
* Set VR Current Limit Max = Enable to disable both TDC and TDP protection functions thus allowing Turbo mode to run without any TDC/TDP protection.
* Thermal Management Control = Tripped when core temp is >90C, Turbo mode will disable. At >105C core temp, will force system shutdown.

So i assume that some board manufacturers adjusts temp threshold as they want.

Not sure TBH, everything I have read shows 80C for Turbo mode and that Thermal Management control within the BIOS has no effect but as I said, thats not necessarily fact, just bits I have read, just like the bits you have read, what I do beleive however is that despite disabling all the controls (I never have thermal management enabled when I significantly overclock) I still lost the x21 just as Intel says I would, it just didnt say the 8oC..... it remains a bit of a mystery still though I must admit.

You can always test the theory yourself, disable everything in BIOS thermal, enable turbo, set some obscene voltage and run OCCT with CPU-Z and realtemps open, when you see consistent 80C check the speed/multi in CPU-Z or OCCT

looking more closely at what you said, the protection is for TDP limits which is power usage not temperatures, the Intel white paper specifically talks about "temperature" threasholds not TDP which may explain that you can pump more through the chip with your BIOS controls but perhaps still if you hit 80C then the multi will be lost..... I really dont know, I am going to have to test now when I get home!

 

[t_ski]

what multi you guys using on the CPU?


heres mine at 3.8 GHz 182*20

http://img.techpowerup.org/090607/Capture265.jpg

mine is 21 x 191

 

[Tatty_Two]

Alright folks I've returned home and I just want to say I learned a ton, but before any long stuff I wanted to say I'm really glad to be back and really really glad to see some tight ram.

@Tatty: Some motherboards have a way of sending a signal to the CPU that there is no temp over the limit for turbo activation. This was first introduced by Gigabyte and then later adopted by just about every board manufacturer. Trust me it makes no difference in temps. This past weekend SV and I had i7s doing 4.66GHz(turbo on) on air/phase/DICE without any real difference in wprime, pi runs... nothin.

@Everyone else: Don't ever stop learning and searching and digging into this chipset. It's complicated as hell, and it doesn't seem to mind a bunch of heat for short bursts of overclocking.

Sorry Binge, just read that, it appears your right as with this new Gigabyte UD4P i cant get it to turn off, have just run some tests but it def did turn off with the DFi DK.

 

[Chicken Patty]

With Turbo enabled the multi will drop to 20x once thermal temps have hit 60C I beleive, I did read it somewhere..... and there is no way of disabling that.

my EVGA holds a solid 21x as far as I can remember over 80ºc.

...and welcome back BINGE, good to hear from ya. Anything about this platform you wanna share with us?

 

[Wetbehindtheears]

My Giga also keeps x21 over 80!

The lowest V I can get stable @ over 4GHz.... not happy about temps tho!

I guess it's time to go water!

 

[Chicken Patty]

My Giga also keeps x21 over 80!

The lowest V I can get stable @ over 4GHz.... not happy about temps tho!

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr5/xpdualcore/080609_1.png

I guess it's time to go water!

those temps are ok on AIR, might be a bit better, but these things do run very hot. Nice clock though.

man, I think imma go get me a D0 this weekend, too much temptations.

How much can D0's be found for new?

 

[Wetbehindtheears]

Thanks ... got mine (Retail) for £229 so chances are cheaper in US

 

[PaulieG]

My Giga also keeps x21 over 80!

The lowest V I can get stable @ over 4GHz.... not happy about temps tho!

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr5/xpdualcore/080609_1.png

I guess it's time to go water!

Actually, on air those temps are quite good.

 

[n-ster]

I would be satisfied with 7x on load on air... That is just me though

 

[Binge]

my EVGA holds a solid 21x as far as I can remember over 80ºc.

...and welcome back BINGE, good to hear from ya. Anything about this platform you wanna share with us?

A few interesting things,

-Motherboards can make or break an overclock and even not matter at all. A poor chip will always hold back your OC, and a bad board will hold back your good chips. The Bloodrage has a whole new leg up on OCing with the introduction of the G25 bios. I was most impressed by that board and it's compatability with the Kingston HyperX.

-3x2GB sets of memory do affect the stability of higher OCs. A 3x1GB set is optimal for benchmarking.

-Higher uncore multi can give your system stability if you keep it in tighter ratio with the QPI freqency instead of the memory ratio. For example x6 Memory x16-18 Uncore x32 QPI.

-Low temps are not as important as stable temps. Temperature heavy shifts to cold cause more instability than a shift to warmer temps. If you are going sub zero stay on top of your cooling in order to keep it from getting too warm.


-Make sure you try everything involving your settings before changing voltages. For example: If your ratios between memory/uncore/qpi are unstable it could be a function of the pci-E clock as well as bclk. The objective is obviously a higher BCLK with the 920s so memory/uncore/qpi and pci-E can be holding it back. These are good places to play with before losing your head over voltages.

-See how far your crashes get. See if your crashes are consistant. Consistancy is good, it means you've got control over something. It's when you crash in a super pi and then your system freezes mid bios that you know your settings are far off.

-Don't over extend yourself with overclocking. Keep reading into things and looking on forums across the interwebz.

-Clear CMOS and start fresh if you're getting frustrated. Save a profile to your bios that includes all of your advanced bios/CPU settings, but do not overclock it. This just keeps things simple for starting over.

 

[Chicken Patty]

A few interesting things,

-Motherboards can make or break an overclock and even not matter at all. A poor chip will always hold back your OC, and a bad board will hold back your good chips. The Bloodrage has a whole new leg up on OCing with the introduction of the G25 bios. I was most impressed by that board and it's compatability with the Kingston HyperX.

-3x2GB sets of memory do affect the stability of higher OCs. A 3x1GB set is optimal for benchmarking.

-Higher uncore multi can give your system stability if you keep it in tighter ratio with the QPI freqency instead of the memory ratio. For example x6 Memory x16-18 Uncore x32 QPI.

-Low temps are not as important as stable temps. Temperature heavy shifts to cold cause more instability than a shift to warmer temps. If you are going sub zero stay on top of your cooling in order to keep it from getting too warm.


-Make sure you try everything involving your settings before changing voltages. For example: If your ratios between memory/uncore/qpi are unstable it could be a function of the pci-E clock as well as bclk. The objective is obviously a higher BCLK with the 920s so memory/uncore/qpi and pci-E can be holding it back. These are good places to play with before losing your head over voltages.

-See how far your crashes get. See if your crashes are consistant. Consistancy is good, it means you've got control over something. It's when you crash in a super pi and then your system freezes mid bios that you know your settings are far off.

-Don't over extend yourself with overclocking. Keep reading into things and looking on forums across the interwebz.

-Clear CMOS and start fresh if you're getting frustrated. Save a profile to your bios that includes all of your advanced bios/CPU settings, but do not overclock it. This just keeps things simple for starting over.

thanks dude.

I'll be reading this over and over again. Got some catching up to do. Havent overclocked in a while.

 

[PaulieG]

A few interesting things,

-Motherboards can make or break an overclock and even not matter at all. A poor chip will always hold back your OC, and a bad board will hold back your good chips. The Bloodrage has a whole new leg up on OCing with the introduction of the G25 bios. I was most impressed by that board and it's compatability with the Kingston HyperX.

-3x2GB sets of memory do affect the stability of higher OCs. A 3x1GB set is optimal for benchmarking.

-Higher uncore multi can give your system stability if you keep it in tighter ratio with the QPI freqency instead of the memory ratio. For example x6 Memory x16-18 Uncore x32 QPI.

-Low temps are not as important as stable temps. Temperature heavy shifts to cold cause more instability than a shift to warmer temps. If you are going sub zero stay on top of your cooling in order to keep it from getting too warm.


-Make sure you try everything involving your settings before changing voltages. For example: If your ratios between memory/uncore/qpi are unstable it could be a function of the pci-E clock as well as bclk. The objective is obviously a higher BCLK with the 920s so memory/uncore/qpi and pci-E can be holding it back. These are good places to play with before losing your head over voltages.

-See how far your crashes get. See if your crashes are consistant. Consistancy is good, it means you've got control over something. It's when you crash in a super pi and then your system freezes mid bios that you know your settings are far off.

-Don't over extend yourself with overclocking. Keep reading into things and looking on forums across the interwebz.

-Clear CMOS and start fresh if you're getting frustrated. Save a profile to your bios that includes all of your advanced bios/CPU settings, but do not overclock it. This just keeps things simple for starting over.

I sold my Blood Rage. It was a decent board, but I found it handled bad overclocks like crap. I had to reset the cmos more than on any other i7 board I've owned. If the new bios really did that much to improve stability, this is great news for people who still own one.

 

[Wile E]

Actually Binge, the last 3 points are very solid points for OCing anything at all. Good post.

 

[Jakethesnake011]

CP I am with you on trying to get a D0 myself, although I do not know where I can get one close to me, the closest is Boston and thats about 2 hours away and I dont want to pay 300 for one when I can go to Microcenter and get it for 230.

 

[n-ster]

this thread is almost 5k posts we should give it a custom title lollllllllll

You could always buy a proven OCer at 260~270$ shipped!

 

[Chicken Patty]

this thread is almost 5k posts we should give it a custom title lollllllllll

You could always buy a proven OCer at 260~270$ shipped!

where at, Microcenter?

 

[Chicken Patty]

CP I am with you on trying to get a D0 myself, although I do not know where I can get one close to me, the closest is Boston and thats about 2 hours away and I dont want to pay 300 for one when I can go to Microcenter and get it for 230.

I dont think i'll have the funds soon, but imma try, they are soooo worth it!