TSMC Boss Responds to Reports of Brutal Corporate Culture

[lexluthermiester]

You get a day off for one of those 12 hour shifts or you work more than 240 hours a month ? If so, you can't do that without having a wife that is stay at home, or your parents taking care of the house ,the groceries, cooking, dishes, laundry and the kids. Add to that a 1-2 hour commute and you are away from home for 5 days a week each week ? that is a schedule for Asia not for Europe or the US IMHO.
If you get a day off for each 12 hour shift that includes night shifts, than that might not be a bad deal.

Allow me to be more clear. NO ONE wants to work 12hour days. Some are willing to, but NOT for 5 or 6 days straight. And good luck trying to get people to rotate from days to night and back every other week. I sure as hell wouldn't do it no matter how much money they offered.

What they need to do is run 3 6hour shifts every day with no over-night shift. 5x6hour days? I'd go for that, especially given how mind-numbingly repetitive that kind of work is. The key with this kind of schedule is that you hire more people for shorter shifts and spread those shifts out. Offer a fair wage and you'll have people lining up to take those jobs! Worker retention will be very high! This is NOT Asia, we are not willing to work ourselves into an early grave.

@Mr Liu
Change your scheduling/shift system and adapt to the needs of American workers or go suck a hot steamy turd. Don't blame US for YOUR inability to understand OUR culture.

 

[sepheronx]

Allow me to be more clear. NO ONE wants to work 12hour days. Some are willing to, but NOT for 5 or 6 days straight. And good luck trying to get people to rotate from days to night and back every other week. I sure as hell wouldn't do it no matter how much money they offered.

What they need to do is run 3 6hour shifts every day with no over-night shift. 5x6hour days? I'd go for that, especially given how mind-numbingly repetitive that kind of work is. The key with this kind of schedule is that you hire more people for shorter shifts and spread those shifts out. Offer a fair wage and you'll have people lining up to take those jobs! Worker retention will be very high! This is NOT Asia, we are not willing to work ourselves into an early grave.

@Mr Liu
Change your scheduling/shift system and adapt to the needs of American worker or go suck a hot steamy turd. Don't blame US for YOUR inability to understand OUR culture.

I told my boss that when we get some 10 day in a row weeks of working that I would just quit, I was lucky I never had to do it.

Working 12hrs a day for 6 days, I would rather just be dead. What kind of life is that?

 

[lexluthermiester]

Working 12hrs a day for 6 days, I would rather just be dead. What kind of life is that?

Right?

 

[sepheronx]

Right?

now the question is, what days are the management working?

I noticed here where I am, maybe different experience, is that they make us monkeys work our asses off, they sit at home, work from home, and then pat themselves on the back when "targets are very high!"

Its insulting and its getting worst. I guess jokes on me, I should have worked harder or massaged more ego's in order to get ahead.

 

[Fourstaff]

Work and management culture in Asia and US is so different that it will take some time for both sides to adjust to each other. Its not going to be a straightforward problem to solve since the Asian bosses will be of the opinion that "Taiwanese workforce has superior commitment, Americans will never amount to anything with their current work ethic". Add a layer of "US pressured us to be here, now that we are here we can't find good workers anyway", you can see how it becomes a toxic soup.

As for shift workers, its not uncommon for 12/12hr back to backs in factory/healthcare/other 24hr operations. The hours will be balanced out with appropriate rest periods e.g. 12hrs for 7 days (=84 hours), and then 7 days off for a total of 42hr/week on average. 8/8/8hr shifts is a lot harder to schedule, by the time you reach 6/6/6/6hr shifts workers will be working most days to make up the hours.

 

[AlwaysHope]

Lol how'd you draw "snowflake problems" into this. Most "snowflake" types are strongly for labor rights and it's not an either/or scenario regardless.

But the MSM loves to portray "snowflakes" with all their lifestyle problems before promoting workers rights.

Here's an idea Mr Liu: Utilize shifts that Americans are WILLING to work.

Forcing workers into 5 12hour shifts per week, rotating nights and days every week are NOT acceptable scheduling schemes. If YOU wouldn't work that schedule, don't insult the people who won't either, Moron. I don't know how things work in Taiwan, but over here, if you don't respect your employees, you don't HAVE employees.

Yes good point. Shift work like that has serious health repercussions on each individual worker. Humans are not designed to have alternate day then nights on a rotating weekly basis ( let alone even days for that matter). It's the stuff of health nightmares - literally speaking. A one way ticket to an early grave.

 

[Space Lynx]

Here's an idea Mr Liu: Utilize shifts that Americans are WILLING to work.

Forcing workers into 5 12hour shifts per week, rotating nights and days every week are NOT acceptable scheduling schemes. If YOU wouldn't work that schedule, don't insult the people who won't either, Moron. I don't know how things work in Taiwan, but over here, if you don't respect your employees, you don't HAVE employees.

if that schedule is real, then wow... that is a horrible quality of life.

I always tell young people to become nurses in USA. then after 2 years of experience go back for 1 year to get the Nurse Practitioner license and become a traveling nurse, 160k a year and you work 3 days a week by age 26. 4 day weekends most of the time and money to spend to enjoy them.

But the MSM loves to portray "snowflakes" with all their lifestyle problems before promoting workers rights.


Yes good point. Shift work like that has serious health repercussions on each individual worker. Humans are not designed to have alternate day then nights on a rotating weekly basis ( let alone even days for that matter). It's the stuff of health nightmares - literally speaking. A one way ticket to an early grave.

The science does all prove this, I agree. I used to be a night owl, but I am not anymore, my body is much happier waking with the sunrise.

 

[R-T-B]

Allow me to be more clear. NO ONE wants to work 12hour days. Some are willing to, but NOT for 5 or 6 days straight

It's scientifically less productive than lesser working shifts at that point. Nonsensical really.

 

[lexluthermiester]

if that schedule is real, then wow... that is a horrible quality of life.

It's real. Believe it. Asia is very different from the rest of the world.

 

[R-T-B]

It's real. Believe it. Asia is very different from the rest of the world.

I'm hoping the recent studies that show reduced work hours actually increase productivity (to a point anyways) start to get realized globally, but it seems corperations in general are very slow to adapt to this idea.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Especially East Asian companies. Remember, they install nets and all that. They're there for a reason, they overwork their employees to the bone and many opt to commit.

 

[Solaris17]

Lets play nice

 

[R-T-B]

Especially East Asian companies. Remember, they install nets and all that. They're there for a reason, they overwork their employees to the bone and many opt to commit.

I would argue it's a global issue (long work hours) and the asian "suicide" issue is driven more by population density issues than the work culture, but regardless, we do agree asia is worse off in general work hours wise.

Lets play nice

But sometimes the clamps hurt so good (be nice, I love you).

 

[Broken Processor]

TSMC shocked it can't run it Arizona factory like a sweat shop.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

Taiwan, China, Korea and specially Japan.
In Asia there is still the medieval working style mentality that workers are just soulless drones, hired only to perform tasks, without questioning, personality, or any other kind of life.
In Japan they even said -the workers actually (yeah, brainwashing is the finest), that family comes 3rd, after the Boss and after the Company or the work place.
So no wonder that a$$holes like this TSMC boss are making those statements with a visible frustration, that he might need to offer "special treatment" to US workers, something that instead of being the norm, he consider an exception from the rules. His rules.

Because in lots of underdeveloped countries (such as the ones you listed to which I add the US) the government just doesn't protect employees, especially that employees are always in a weaker position compared to employer, and need stronger laws to protect them.

 

[R-T-B]

Because in lots of underdeveloped countries (such as the ones you listed to which I add the US) the government just doesn't protect employees, especially that employees are always in a weaker position compared to employer, and need stronger laws to protect them.

I'm not sure by what criteria one could call Japan underdeveloped... it literally has the largest city on earth as it's capitol, and is pretty damn wealthy.

The US likewise has political issues, and infrastructure is aging in parts, but it is still pretty damn developed compared to the rest of the world.

Heck most of the countries on that list are arguably pretty developed, with the exception of maybe PARTS of China, which do remain very rural.

I will agree though that in employee->employer protections, the US and those countries do belong on a short list of pretty bad nations.

 

[droopyRO]

Allow me to be more clear. NO ONE wants to work 12hour days. Some are willing to, but NOT for 5 or 6 days straight. And good luck trying to get people to rotate from days to night and back every other week. I sure as hell wouldn't do it no matter how much money they offered.

What they need to do is run 3 6hour shifts every day with no over-night shift. 5x6hour days? I'd go for that, especially given how mind-numbingly repetitive that kind of work is. The key with this kind of schedule is that you hire more people for shorter shifts and spread those shifts out. Offer a fair wage and you'll have people lining up to take those jobs! Worker retention will be very high! This is NOT Asia, we are not willing to work ourselves into an early grave.

So you never worked night shifts or 12 hours shift ? ha!
You have 2 possibilities for 24/7/365. 2x 12 hour shifts or 3x 8hour shifts. 9:00-17:00, 17:00-01:00, 01:00-09:00. Two workers/shift, you work one day you have a day off. I have had this schedule for a lot of years now.

For me it is way better than working 5 days a week from 9-17:00, and it suits me fine, you work ~15 days a month, with two out of four weekends off and holidays are split, if you work Christmas you are off for New Year and vice-versa same for Easter. Also people like firefighters, doctors/nurses, police and other LEO's, gas and electricity, mass-media, army, food production etc. We all work like that, not just factory workers.

 

[Kapone33]

For all those that thing that American work is different should talk to people that talk in the rail industry in the US. Especially those that work for some Companies that have been in the News recently. This is not new though. Did no one else watch the DOc that showed Workers at Foxconn working 16 hr shifts so that we could keep the Iphone going?

 

[mechtech]

Well who knows. As someone who works mon-fri and has for most of my life................I actually prefer 12-hr shifts...........more days off throughout the year........if its still 84-hr 2-week schedule.

My wife is a nurse, she works 12-hr shifts. mon-tues days, wed-thurs off, fri-sat-sun days, mon-tues off, wed-thurs days, fri-sat-sun off, then repeat 2 weeks of nightshifts. I did the same schedule in metalurgical plant on production crew.........the factory runs 24-7-365. In overseas mining I was 6 weeks in and 3 weeks out aka 42-12hr shifts in a row.

Now as for immigrants coming from taiwan to arizona...........well the arid sands of arizona may not be as welcoming as taiwan's weather??

Always teething issues when first starting out.....

 

[R-T-B]

Always teething issues when first starting out.....

No matter where you travel, that's the darn truth I think.

 

[R0H1T]

Especially East Asian companies. Remember, they install nets and all that. They're there for a reason, they overwork their employees to the bone and many opt to commit.

That part is highly exaggerated, except Hon Hai do you remember any other corporation being named in such a fiasco? Better still any actual evidence of that being widespread, also how would installing safety nets actually work in muti storied buildings?

For all those that thing that American work is different should talk to people that talk in the rail industry in the US. Especially those that work for some Companies that have been in the News recently. This is not new though. Did no one else watch the DOc that showed Workers at Foxconn working 16 hr shifts so that we could keep the Iphone going?

That's true everywhere in the world & a lot of this work culture, being massively different in the West, is BS. How come you're relaxing child labor laws in many parts of the US, going back to pre industrialization era are we

The fact is those who are desperate for work/jobs/money are exploited everywhere ~ whether it be for 16 hours a day here or less than minimum wage in the US or anything similar in the EU, Africa etc.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

I'm not sure by what criteria one could call Japan underdeveloped... it literally has the largest city on earth as it's capitol, and is pretty damn wealthy.

The US likewise has political issues, and infrastructure is aging in parts, but it is still pretty damn developed compared to the rest of the world.

Heck most of the countries on that list are arguably pretty developed, with the exception of maybe PARTS of China, which do remain very rural.

I will agree though that in employee->employer protections, the US and those countries do belong on a short list of pretty bad nations.

I judge development by how a country is doing to improve its population life conditions (good healthcare, free education, laws to protect consumers and employees, paid vacation, reasonable work time...), and all these countries fail miserably, but I would say Japan is much better than the US or Korea, but still underdeveloped.

 

[Bomby569]

I'm not sure by what criteria one could call Japan underdeveloped... it literally has the largest city on earth as it's capitol, and is pretty damn wealthy.

Tokyo is not the largest city on earth, not even in Asia, it's not even top 10. It's the largest metropolitan area, not the largest city

 

[95Viper]

Stay on topic.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm hoping the recent studies that show reduced work hours actually increase productivity (to a point anyways) start to get realized globally, but it seems corperations in general are very slow to adapt to this idea.

This is a very real thing. 6hour shifts with a 15 to 30 minute break in the middle(for a total of 6 hours work time + the break) seem to be the sweet spot for ultimate worker productivity, moral and job satisfaction. The more companies that adopt this shift scheme, the better whole industries will be, including TSMC.

So you never worked night shifts or 12 hours shift ? ha!

Oh I have. For a number of years I worked 12 and 13 hour shifts for 5 to 6 days a week. And I'll NEVER do it again. Granted, I never had to switch days and nights every week, and never would have.