United Videogame Workers Union Launches Amid Industry-wide Layoffs and AI Threat

[Hecate91]

The lack of good AAA games isn't due to not enough skilled developers, unionizing isn't going to fix greedy publishers and game studios making games to appeal to a "wider audience" which hasn't worked for years yet these companies keep trying instead of restructuring to come up with better ideas.

 

[R-T-B]

Every country has talent. Why would I pay 10 times more to get that talent in the US?

Because ita culturally relevant to your target market? This is like the third time I've stated this.

Look if you are just going to ignore my points then this isn't really an honest debate. Consider my interest gone. I've already long ago moved to a different industry anyways.

No, he doesn't. He has 90% and costs 10% which is what I actually need.

If your target audience will buy a 90% good game, sure.

I know. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying that's the way things are because: capitalism.

Capitalism is also why the industry is shrinking right now: we aren't disposable and that attitude falls flat in the end product.

The lack of good AAA games isn't due to not enough skilled developers, unionizing isn't going to fix greedy publishers and game studios making games to appeal to a "wider audience" which hasn't worked for years yet these companies keep trying instead of restructuring to come up with better ideas.

Ah, yes, the "woke games" arguement. Was wondering when you guys would find it fit to bring that nonsensical shit out. I'm done. I have insight into whats actually wrong due to having worked it and you guys are just gonna blame it on minorities again. Too tired for this.

 

[AGlezB]

Because ita culturally relevant to your target market? This is like the third time I've stated this.

Look if you are just going to ignore my points then this isn't really an honest debate. Consider my intetest gone. I've already long ago moved to a different industry anyways.


If your target audience will buy a 90% good game, sure.

I already answered. Look:

Cultural relevance doesn't come from your workers being from some place. If that were the case we couldn't do games depicting Ancient Egypt, Warring States Japan or any other not-here-not-now setting because as far as I know there isn't a single person alive who lived in those places at those times.

What you do is hire an expert and ask them what it would be like and that's not limited to ancient times either. Just pick a subject, google who's who on that subject and hire them. You'll get all the cultural relevance you need for whatever time/place you need and you workers can be from Mars for all that'll matter.

 

[R-T-B]

Cultural relevance doesn't come from your workers being from some place.

Not but it sure as hell helps if you know your target market. And one group does a ton better than a foreign one.

Even a game about mars has a target market and it usually isn't mars.

 

[AGlezB]

Not but it sure as hell helps if you know your target market. And one group does a ton better.

If AC:S had been created by an all Japanese team it would certainly be more culturally and historically accurate. More culturally relevant? Not enough to matter one way or the other.
As for target market, 99% of devs/artists have no idea what that even means or aren't high enough to have a say in the matter. That's why we have directors and managers.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the point you're trying to make, I just don't agree with most of it because it seems to me your argument comes from the perspective of the proverbial frog in the well.

 

[R-T-B]

That's why we have directors and managers.

Yes, who hire people outside the culture market they are targeting for sales (the ubisoft titles target audience clearly was not Japan), and wondering why their shovelware doesn't sell. I've seen it too many times to count. A lot of times this gets mislabeled as "wokism" or something when its really quite something else.

That being said: I'm pretty emotional and opinionated on this subject, and you've actually been a decent debate partner despite my earlier accusations. So for the good of keeping this discussion civil, I am stepping out. Kudos though. Its been pleasant mostly, my experiences in this industry just make it hard to discuss.

 

[tpa-pr]

I'm actually surprised that developers would be open to unionizing. It might just be the corner of IT I'm in but the majority opinion I consistently see about unions is "my co-workers aren't as competent as me and I don't want my rewards/salary tied to their performance instead of my own, no unions".

I don't honestly know enough about unions to have a solid opinion on them (I've never been in one, I've never really been exposed to one) but a lot of my colleagues seem much more interested in meritocracy than the proverbial "fair go" a union could potentially give them.

I suppose the other side of the coin is that video game developers have been incredibly poorly treated compared to other developers?

 

[AGlezB]

I suppose the other side of the coin is that video game developers have been incredibly poorly treated compared to other developers?

That is an excelent point. Games have a way longer development cicle than normal software so game studios need enough budget to operate for years without any sort of income and that is where publishers come in. Where normal software is generally sold directly to end users, games usually are sadled with a publishing agreement where the studio doesn't make a cent until the publisher has been paid in full. If the game sells well the studio makes money, hopefully enough to have some profit to put down for the next project. If not, they have to go back to the publisher and beg for money and every time that happens there is a chance the publisher will say no, killing the studio outright, or impose conditions to make the studio "leaner" which in some cases can also kill the studio. You have to think of publishers as venture capitals, never lending money without strings attached and in some cases those string can end up wrapped and tightened around the studio's neck.

TL;DR Game development is more closely related to film making than it is to normal software development. Think of it in terms of:

• game = film
• game studio = crew and actors
• game publisher = film studio, i.e. Disney, Universal, Warner, etc.

At the end of production all the crew and actors are out of work and have to move on and even if there is a sequel planned there is no guarantee it will be made by the same crew and actors and even then the studio might not like the numbers and cancel the sequel. Creatively, games and films also face similar chalenges.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Every country has talent. Why would I pay 10 times more to get that talent in the US?

The group working on the other side of the planet as a temporary employee probably being underpaid and overworked won't give jack shit about the product in the long term. They have no vested interest in making the best product / design decisions beyond the term of their contract so you may get a good enough product in the short term but end up needing it rewritten again before you know it, thus totally destroying whatever cost savings upper management thought they were going to achieve but they can still slap a good spin on it before exiting and moving on to be CEO's of other companies while your left holding the bag with some holes in the bottom.

 

[Solidstate89]

Solidarity forever for the union makes us strong!

 

[stahlhart]

Going to be hard to tell whether or not they're on strike.

 

[Why_Me]

Going to be hard to tell whether or not they're on strike.

This ^^

 

[R-T-B]

Going to be hard to tell whether or not they're on strike.

I must be missing the joke... what part of "not showing up for work" would be hard to notice?

 

[OkieDan]

Capitalism is also why the industry is shrinking right no

I agree, an over supply of shitty games drive down demand for more of the same.